Mini 1370: Possessed Pastors in a Paranoid Parish: Who Won?!

[DeasWave]

Tierce went from Michael Jordan playing basketball to Michael Jordon playing baseball in such a short time span that my eyebrow is stuck in a raised position. My eyebrow is still raised at AP but Tierce raises it like 10% more. I'm pretty sure Deas is on the same page.

~ DW

[AngryPidgeon]

The flat out inactivity is scaring me a little bit, actually. I hate lynching inactives for the most part, but lets be honest: its her.

[Eidolon]

MOI, thoughts on tierce?

[AngryPidgeon]

Ya, MoI is lurking like a champ too >.>

[Tierce]

Finishing the catch up tonight or I'm replacing out; thought it best to consolidate ideas than post tidbits as I go.

Baroque music first, game later.

[MagnaofIllusion]

On my list of things to do between now and

next Tuesday night

…

1. Reread Day 1 in full.
2. Re-ISO Zyrc / Mae and Empking
3. Re-ISO everyone not me
4. Attack Vote Counts with abandon

MOI, thoughts on tierce?

Ya, MoI is lurking like a champ too >.>

So I've bolded the portion of my post to explain in full detail what my time-frame for this review is. If you have further questions I suggest you refer to that post again until it sinks in.

MOD - I am LA from today at 5pm EDT until Monday morning for my regular family weekend duties

Also - I will vote Tierce the second she replaces out given the game-state regardless of whether I have completed my full review or not.

[Amrun]

AP, I ddon't agree with your towntell on DW.

[AngryPidgeon]

Fair enough, I have some other reasons for thinking they are town. I know a lot of things I found to be town tells other people see as wifom though

[DeasWave]

But we are town so it's ok.

[DarthYoshi]

MOI's V/LA is noted.

The current VC remains unchanged, and is pasted here for convenience's sake.

The Book of Vote Counts, Chapter Four, Verse Three

Tierce (2): AngryPidgeon, Eidolon
DeasWave (1): Amrun
AngryPidgeon (1): DeasWave
Not Voting (2): MagnaofIllusion, Tierce

With 6 alive, it's 4 to excommunicate and 3 to have no excommunication.

The deadline is currently set for 6:00 pm on Thursday, October 4.

As ever, any questions or concerns, please let me know.

[Tierce]

Somewhat caught up. (MoI, replacing out voluntarily would mean I lose any attachment to the game, so... good job with an empty threat? Stop being an idiot.)


Calling me scum won't change my alignment, AngryPidgeon.

Thigs i notice about tierce's iso:

- She pushed hard on me an rapid from a very early point. Not really scumhunting. Like seriously... main target being the newbs? mafia tactic 101.

- She didn't bus mae until she started taking heat from AP about her extended attack on RC after he claimed. Man, her switch to mae looks really opportunistic here. "oh well, my first lynch didn't pan out. i'll just bus my buddy instead."

- She KNOWS Seilkop's alignment with an extremely little amount of input, from the very beginning of the game. doesn't waver on this read or question seil whatsoever (Even goes so far as to omgus us all when we lynched her while she wasn't here to prevent that) another mafia 101 tactic.

You're claiming I ignored what would be a juicy town wagon on D1 (Amrun) to bus? What's even better--Amrun would have likely been the default lynch if I hadn't asked for an extension. In the meantime, no one was paying attention to Maemuki. You and Empking were both sitting on Amrun, then you waffled some, unvoted, and posted this:

I actually agree with some of tierce's points on maemuki and would be more inclined to lynch her though my scumread isn't extremely strong.

before shifting to Maemuki after some D1 wagon analysis that excuses your votes in the premise that "I was voting not-with-my-scumreads." If you were sheeping your townreads, why not simply say so back then? Why the need for the posturing analysis?

You and rapidcanyon were the D1 focus from several players. The accusation of not-scumhunting is baseless and makes no sense--"the newbs"? Even if you are new to MS, you two have claimed to have an year of experience. seilkops acted much less experienced in mafia than you. And who jumped on seilkops?

You

did. Then you think he's town, arguing that his RVS disclaimer made sense in hindsight even thought you didn't like the original justification.

This was a leaning townread, and yet you push him to your second scumread less than an hour after he announced a V/LA.

I show this...

Points for me:

First to vote scum day two. unlikely to bus two scums in a row for no reason, especially when more pressure was geared at me.

Pressured scum early on day one. Unvoted amrun at the right time, got momentum off of her when i could have let my vote stay on her, and got some heat for it in the process, and then went on to vote scum.

...is bunk, and yet you choose to ignore it in favor of soothing me in Post 795. What's more, is that your 'went on to vote scum' is, by self-admission, not your own doing, as Post 497 shows it's not really your decision.

Her stance on seilkops boils down to gut.

Seil, why am i scum?

Laugh all you want at the rc/me analysis, but nearly every post you changed your mind and your justification for why was rather shaky. first you said our interaction looked force, yet you still thought votes on me would lead to a (implied town) claim, and then you justified it by saying our old site was the reason for our interaction, but if i claimed i might just be fake claiming and it wouldn't matter.... those couple posts were straight BS and you know it. If i had to fake claim, i very likely would have been spotted.

This is very apologetic for someone addressing a scumread, it feels like she's talking to someone Eidolon is convinced is town and yet needs to lynch. And while she calls seilkops's stance contradictory, there is no indication on how that stance pushes a scum agenda.

The #870-1 sequence doesn't make sense from a townie who was apparently so willing to hear seilkops out:

Sorry, I had no idea who my person was. I wiki'd the name, saw it came from the film Dogma, and basically left it at that. I thought the name would be enough to prove I was town.

This doesn't make any sense to me. I figured mafia should know this as well. The movies are in the pm's....

but you completely ignored the point everyone has been asking about why you said your claim would clear you, and then you claim VT.

You've got to be scum

Vote: Seilkops

.

this puts him at l-1

Sorry. you did answer the question, it was overshadowed by the fail of a sentence in front of it... but it still doesn't make sense. why would a name clear you? wtf?

The L-1 vote seems for the lack of an explanation, then she sees seilkops has given it, and still sits on that vote. Reminds me of petapan-scum's continued vote on a player in Chain of Command after it was made clear his reason was bunk--he just shrugged and kept at it; Eidolon did the same here.

if seil flips scum, i will be very happy that i made it through the game w/o being lynched and was only on scum lynches.

if not then hopefully i can prove myself tomorrow.

i'll probably look over everyone's iso again, i really have no idea who else it might be.

This is very awkward twilight posting--why is Eidolon concerned that she would be a focus point Today?

The moment AngryPidgeon considered me as scum, we have this dance

Also, you say i'm scum for not going after tierce, but i did slight fos tierce yesterday and her response to me seemed townie enough to where i dropped it. Basically, if she makes it to mylo/lylo, she should be looked at very thoroughly. and i would like her to post more, because we don't have much to work with if that does happen, plus she might have good leads if she is town, which i've tried to get from her today.

And i think we should def. wait to hear more from her today before lynching anyone.

ITT Eidolon pretends scum never bus.

Bombshells everywhere tonight!

VOTE: Tierce

I think its her. I really actually do. Similar reasons that I did on D1. Plus I learned fairly recently that scum bussing D1 is totally heard of.

[snip]

Seriously. I've been strugglung with this game Day because I can see town sides of Amrun, Eid, DW even if they had some scummy things. You know who isn't giving me any town vibes? Tierce. She bussed Maemuki.

What if its Tierce? Just gonna drop that bombshell on everyone. And yes I've been contributing to my other games way more than here. Don't care. Yall are lurkers. Im going to ISO her tomorrow. DW too.

I said that yesterday and got sh!t for it.

I mean, the thing is, seems like if a mafia has a plan set, they would bus their buddy with full force.

Motivation isn't strong for a day 1 lynch that could have been a townie, but it's a possibility.

[snip]

Btw, i still think it's possible that you are scum, and these questions are leading to get all the townies thinking that tierce is scum for holding the game up.

But i also have reasons to think deas is scum.

Guess who Eidolon is going to try to lynch in MyLo/LyLo should I get lynched today? Starts with Angry, ends with Pidgeon.

Heh, I really think its her. I'm reading through her D1 ISO (which admittedly I found scummy at the time, so big shocker that I still find it scummy) and I can't find really any reason to give her town points. At all.

DW's wagon analysis looks town. Plus I just don't see him as scum. I really don't think he is. Eidolon? Her zyrc interactions were bussy looking, but her "Oh maybe I'll vote Zyrc but not now" is honestly too scummy to come from a buddy. It just is. Amrun is well...Amrun. I don't think its her either. Partly cause Empking was on her wagon a lot D1 and Zyrc RVS'd her. Also I really just don't get huge scum vibes from her; just really mild town ones. Tierce? Scum. I was giving her too much of a pass for the D1 Maemuki bus, but its gotta be her. I swear by my golden Scumdar that never runs out of batteries that its her.

P-edit: Thanks

I swear Im not scum though. Honest to god I have not seen a single scum card on this site. I literally do not roll scum. My issue is that I really had to force some reads on you, DW, Amrun today because I don't have any strong ones. I really don't. I kept trying to PoE it down (MoI is pretty much conftown) and look for the scummiest, but I see towntells from all of you at various points. It really comes down to Tierce who has been getting a free pass and lurking around the thread.

I keep oscillating on which of the three of you (amrun, DW, Eid) it could be and I think that is because it isn't. Right now Im leaning Amrun again, but why? It certainly isn't because she has done anything enormously scummy.

DW's wagon analysis is a pretty good towntell.
Eid's Unvote + I may vote zyrc later post is a towntell.
Amrun doesn't have any super towntells but I think her Empking/Mae interactions + the VCs make her probably town.

Tierce? Has done nothing to make me think she is town other than bus Maemuki.

Now that you say it, i really do think you could be right. i think i said something yesterday to the degree of "tierce is coasting through the game due to her mae bus"

At any rate, I'll get behind this push. Tierce is the one slot that hasn't had much input since day 1, so I think she deserves some pressure.

Vote: Tierce.

And yeah, she mentioned a busy schedule, and i understand that, i really do. But when you have time to come in and post coaching type things about claims, you obviously have read enough to where you can offer SOME OPINIONS ON YOUR SCUMSPECTS.

AP doesn't need any more buddies. Especially with such a nice setup to turn on him tomorrow should I get lynched.

VOTE: Eidolon

Actually why not

[massclaim]

at this stage? We have flips of Tracker / Bodyguard / VTs versus Goon / Goon with my claim and Angry’s claim out there. Odds are more than favorable that we don’t have ANOTHER protective role given Quilford’s death and I very much doubt we have any other significant roles at all. Cop doesn’t make sense even with a Godfather.

And given the game-state tomorrow is likely to be a No Lynch so a Mass claim would come out at that point anyway.

I admit my wording is weird. The thing was that people were randomly claiming--the "we are not massclaiming" bit was "we are not going through massclam"--it was not a stance of "we are NOT going to do it", it was "this is not an organized massclaim, this is people claiming randomly, please stop it". If there is going to be a massclaim, I'd like to see that request coming from someone who is essentially cleared: i.e. you.


DeasWave... I'm far more comfortable reading Deas than Delta, and the latter seems to be behind the majority of the posts. Deas is a decent player, but I'm not too keen in Delta in general--it's the kind of player whose case-making abilities don't really look for scumminess, regardless of DW's alignment. I need to reread it a bit more and try to focus on Deas's motivations.

Anyway, we discussed Amrun and decided that the three or four (not a "million") side-reasons we had for suspecting her were probably nothing, and the one main reason was Amrun possibly protecting Mae with her vote on our wagon. After some deliberation we decided that this wasn't strong either, since it wouldn't have actually saved Mae and it's doubtful that Amrun would stick her neck out so far for her buddy who was already an inch away from eating rope. We had decided that the scum thing for her to do would have been to go after IceGuy, not us.

While I appreciate (and understand) that you're keeping your hydra discussions outside the thread, why do we rarely get to see reasons for your reads when they change? There is a lot of a posterori explanation. I'll grant you that it all seems to match so far to a point in which I'm not use for Delta's scum play, i.e. that you're actually referring back to your discussions, but that is all the more reason for you to provide public opinions on events as they happen. Please? (Paging Deas... Paging Deas...)

Scum Eid is setting herself up for sheep accusations and a big OMGUS from me (which I think she would expect). I really dont see her risking getting into a firefight with me so early as scum Today.

If Eidolon is scum, she has to deal with you sooner rather than later. You're one of the most vocal players, MoI has his claim making him town, I'm obvtown--who is Eidolon going to push now to ensure she still has viable mislynches later? This is a point in the game in which if she's scum, she can no longer afford to avoid certain players.

Curious, why is Eid so obvtown to you Amrun?

This confuses me. I don't see a need for you to ask a player why your townread is town.

Why do you read him (AngryP) as Town, if I may ask? I don’t see anything that says “obv-Town” in his ISO and his “Oh, Amrun isn’t obv-Town” and “MoI you are scummy but your claim makes sense … anyone else want to claim a PR and make me able to widen my mislynch net” posts today are really, really scummy.

The way he said he wouldn't vote for Maemuki even if the alternative was a no lynch. That's risky for scum.

This. It was a really weird refuse to bus--it was a very risky maneuver that might result in flipped scum-Maemuki and atention flying immediately to AngryPidgeon. I've actually seen this happen--Isa refused to bus Thor and became rather obvious scum in the process--but it's a very risky stance.

In addition, AP seems to really want the push the game into movement. 1) He's really pushing for activity, and 2) The way his reads have been shifting today is fluid--while he is considering almost everyone, it reads as thorough analysis of the game coming from town. I've been in that state of massive paranoia in Weather Mafia II.

Also

[Tierce's]

push

[on Maemuki]

gave her super towncred and

made me look really bad

because I had been FoSing her heavily up to that point in the game.

No? I've been calling you Town, and Amrun has the same opinion for similar reasons. You don't look bad at all.

[DeasWave]

Why are you so mean to me.

~ DW

[Eidolon]

I'll respond to tierce's post later. it's mostly just tierce twisting things and wifoming. the kind of attack i would expect from scum, to be honest. (focusing on minor details to zone in on someone without even looking at the bigger picture, wagon dynamics, motivations that can already be analysed such as behavior with conf scum rather than speculative motivations like who would end up in lylo, etc.)

[AngryPidgeon]

Eidolon does some things I find scummy, but at the core she has some really strong towntells. Post 807 in particular. Tierce's analysis that Eidolon looks like she is talking to a townie is just wrong. Honestly, its just Eidolon's style to be a little skeptical yet direct. The fact that she accused Seil of subconsciously implying she'll be a townie with the claim is a super-duper towntell imo. I just don't see scum Eid doing that. Also, the I may vote Zyrc but not while V/LA post doesn't come from scum. Ever.

[AngryPidgeon]

And I do think that Amrun/Eid's early Empking voting on D2 is a towntell.

[Eidolon]

Tierce:

I really hate big quote-by-quote responses, so I’ll respond to your points in a (hopefully) organized way without the quotes.

1. I agree that you asking for an extension and pushing the mae lynch instead of amrun gives you town points. I even mentioned at some point that you seemed town for defending amrun. However, I don’t put it past a smart scum to take the plan to bus a partner. If they were to make that decision, and they are a good player as obviously you are, they wouldn’t do it half ass. They would do it full force to get the town points. And if a partner is doing some scummy things that will likely get them lynched, I see no reason not to get those town points as early as possible. Bussing is possible and I don’t get any town vibes from you since day 1. You’ve been coasting since then, you know it. You attacked amrun in a personal way for being busy. If it was truly personal, it could have been said after the game in the thread or in pm, but instead you use it as a way to make you sound genuine without getting into the game. I mean, it could be genuine, and if you are town I’m really sorry for making this accusation, but it just reads as an excuse to get out of playing to help the town, to me, because you don’t say much related to the game at all.

2. You say that I was sheeping my townreads rather than going for a scum read, but you are misrepping a lot of what I said in that day period. First of all, I was suspicious of zyrconium from the get-go, and my scumread on amrun turned into a slight town/null read. So it was not just sheeping my town reads, it was a mix of both, which I said in my vote for mae. I was the FIRST person to catch zyrconium. My back and forth on reads day 1 is more of a town behavior. It’s difficult to get firm town reads on day one, with so many opinions and not having any flip info.

3. You pretty much only went hard after me and rapid, no one else, until mae. You even kept pushing Rapid after he claimed, which is a claim that will become obvious if untrue. Not until after you got called out for this did you start going after mae. Seems like you were just going after easy wagons, rather than scum hunting, and you were finding a bunch of minor things to twist around. Finding a bunch of stuff to pick apart without actually looking at the bigger picture is scum motivated. Scum focus on details, townies focus on the logic of the bigger picture/ poe.

4. You talk of my switching stances as if it is scum motivated. I change opinions because I’m not 100% sure on who scum is.

5. The rest is just contrived speculation. Nothing else to say.

I say we continue giving whatever more thoughts we have on the game, and once we hear from MOI, each list our top 2/3 scum suspects and decide on the best decision from there.

@ Tierce: What are your thoughts on the wagons from day 1? Were only town on me & rapid’s wagons? What about amrun’s, iceguys, and mae’s? You said AP was town in spite of defending mae. Why?AP and DW are my other scumreads besides you, so if you have info to help clear him, I’d like to hear that. Who is your second scum suspect and why? And what about empkings wagon?

What do you think of the post were I told MOI to vig kill empking instead of me, and then go after him the next day? Is that a scum or town thing to do?

[AngryPidgeon]

Scum focus on details, townies focus on the logic of the bigger picture/ poe.

This makes so much sense; I like you

What do you think of the post were I told MOI to vig kill empking instead of me, and then go after him the next day? Is that a scum or town thing to do?

What post was this?

I just wanted to add this BS again since it really is an obvious scum maneuver:

RC please explain to me the scum motivation behind generating a solid town read on a townie (YOU) and then pelting that person with questions????????????? Oh right, there isn't. Scum like to have a solid town read on someone. Mae is clearly not doing that.

This is really awkward coming form someone who accused me of poking at a wagon with no pull. With that said, I don't think you are aligned with Maemuki.

Instead of spending time showing us her reads about others, Maemuki is spending virtually all of her content on someone who is not going to get lynched today. Why do you consider that behavior a scumtell with me and not with Maemuki, AngryPidgeon? Why the double standard?

I said that Tierce vote-parking and pushing RC after his claim was scum motivated. Tierce later goes out of her way to ask me why Maemuki giving RC a townread and then asking him lots of questions isn't and accuses me of having double standards.

[Eidolon]

This needs to die. I would power-lynch this in a heartbeat if the votes swung that way. This is so Not Town it is painful.

AGAIN – Anyone who had the power to kill at Night who doesn’t kill this (assuming Eid isn’t hung) shall be ridiculed harshly.

That's stupid. I realize i'm not being the most active or attentive player right now but that doesn't make me scum. I gave my legit thoughts. You lynch/kill players who are scum, not one's who aren't playing the most pro-town. Frankly i'm just not feeling this game very much but interest will hopefully pick up at some point.

At least i'm giving my thoughts and opinions unlike some players (Empking.) wonder why you just gloss over him but want to kill me?

I don't really want an amrun lynch anymore. Her recent reactions sound town.

I actually agree with some of tierce's points on maemuki and would be more inclined to lynch her though my scumread isn't extremely strong.

Angrypidgeon, what is scumtierce's motivation behind arguing against the amrun wagon and for a maemuki wagon?

Here you go.

[AngryPidgeon]

TBH, that is scummy as hell. But I still think its Tierce.

[Eidolon]

lol it was genuine though. i had a scumread on empking at the time.

in the post where i voted to lynch mae, i said empking was my top scumread but i compromised for the deadline.

[Eidolon]

but ya, i did start the game out rusty. i admit that. and i'm kicking myself for playing seemingly scummy. but i'm getting used to the meta here, my game is hopefully getting better. still have a long way to go.

i think it's tierce too.

If not, i'm kind of tied between AP & DW. AP seems genuine but i'm always reluctant of someone buddying, and he's been calling everyone town but tierce. DW seems to be the second best option in regards to wagon analysis.

[Eidolon]

I really want to say AP is town, but paranoia keeps popping up.

[AngryPidgeon]

I think you voting Empking on D2 before the Quilford claim was prob-town. And ya, so you did. Still bussing under pressure is somewhat common. Your Zyrc interactions weren't scum on scum though. I think I'm sure of that.

Kind of agree on Delta/Deas. I really don't think its them though. Maybe, but eh. I kinda want to go back and look for any Empking/DW interactions, but I think they are town so I probably won't unless Tierce flips town. Also Tierce being scum means there was one scum on the RC wagon. I know MoI is town, and I think Amrun is for her D2 Empking votes / Mae interactions.

P-edit: Eid, care to name claim?

[Eidolon]

Sure. I'm friar tuck from robin hood.

My character is actually a monk, not a pastor. just throwing that out there.

[Eidolon]

AP, don't you think we would have had better chances if empking bussed me? since i had more pressure? (not knowing that quil tracked emp at the time)