Mini 1407 (Game Over)

[Cheery Dog]

Vote Count 5.1

projectmatt (2) havingfitz, Master Mew
Master Mew (0)
havingfitz (0)
Lincolm (0)
DeasVail (0)

Not voting: Lincolm, DeasVail, projectmatt,

With 5 alive, it takes 3 to lynch.

Day 5 Deadline

(expired on 2013-03-14 16:02:10)

[projectmatt]

mm please do not hammer until i have the chance to contribute later in the day, in fact - i'd appreciate it if you'd unvote.

[havingfitz]

Who don't you want to hammer? Mm? Mm is already on you.

I'll give you some space....

UNVOTE:

[Cheery Dog]

proddy proddy proddy for Lincolm

[Lincolm]

I'm trying to get something in previous days though I don't get anything. Pretty useless I did this.

@Fitz : Yes, it's answer my question.

[projectmatt]

I apologize for the delays. I've been sick this entire week and it's been a struggle to be motivated enough to make a wall post when you feel like crap. I'm probably going to make this more short than it should be, but oh well..

Lincolm is town. I've no need to elaborate largely on this one, if not by mechanics, by his demeanor and Rob's budding up to him.

Anyway, my read on

havingfitz..

Vote Matt

Between things I've said in the past about Matt and some of the stuff in havingfitz case that I hadn't picked up on (such as the vote on Breakfast after Breakfast not being even mentioned in his reads), this is a way better place for my vote than chkflip and a way better deadline lynch.

What's interesting about this post is that he decides to take bits and pieces from having's case on me to push it for his own logic. This is actually something I'd lean on scum not doing considering Rob's attempts to distance Human Destroyer as seen in his ISO, with havingz he just looks lazy and that's a good thing.

By the way, let Havingfitz claim his PR first, I think?

Why do you think Fitz will claim a PR? Why are you so certain of this? If Fitz is scum, this is a huge scum-slip.

Vote: Fitz

this is probably the first time apart from my case Rob mentions havingfitz and it's really curious. I'm not sure why Rob decided to vote Fitz here, but later..

Unvote

That last post is enough to warrant an unvote.

@ThunderHog: What do you think is the motivation for Denis to do this as scum? I don't see much of one, to be honest. I think the stupidest gambit ever is much more likely. Also, complete list of reads please. Lastly, what is your mafia experience? Do you have any off-site experience?

@Lincolm: Why did you put Fitz at L-1 before he even responded in-thread? Especially after Empire explicitly mentioned it was a bad idea to vote further before a response...

P-edit: Ninja'd by Empire.

he unvotes Fitz and pretty much softly defends him.

the thing is, when he's under pressure for being lynched, the push on having comes BACK

somewhat

strong

incoherent

push by Lincolm.

FTFY, and I'm not referring to langauge skills, I'm referring to substance.

Fitz' post reads fluffy and fake, in my not-so-humble opinion. He's worth a closer look at. I'll detail this more when I have more time (probably on the weekend).

Vote Fitz

of course, he never actually comes back in the weekend to tell us what was scummy about him, but this is worth noting -

havingfitz is posturing in post #927 - something to look into after you've finished lynching me.

I noticed that too during my catch-up.

It is not too late for us to lynch Fitz. I don't have time tonight to write up a case. I don't suppose just saying trust me will work, but seriously, look at his ISO. He's ObvScum.

Mew, on the other hand, still looks town. DV's case on Mew....doesn't really exist. I don't even understand why Mew is a leading wagon, to be honest.

This was his last post in the thread and it was when he was very, very near a lynch.

My initial impression here is that when Rob is on his way out and desperately trying to get the town to lynch someone else - he wouldn't choose his only partner.

The interactions with Rob not being sure how to treat havingfitz, at times defending him and other times pushing on him with conviction makes it look like having is just a town that Rob was trying to take advantage of in any feasible way. When Rob is caught up in the situation with the PRS and he

did

manage to get havingz lynched, it would be autoloss for him.

I feel like I don't need to include every bit of my research in here but I'll do it for the sake of clarify.

Early post implying suspicion on Breakfast, doesn't look like a bus.

reads as genuine paranoia for putting a claimed PR at L-1 and not an attempt to overturn the lynch

general attitude towards rob looks like the kind of distancing scum would be reluctant to do.

His attempt to give me some space looked like a mild towntell as well.

Alternatively, it doesn't look like Breakfast was bussing. It looks like he voted Rob to pressure him and then tried to switch to a town lynch.

I didn't realize this earlier, but Implosion's play was actually very town.

On one hand, there is his case on me - which was really a huge, huge stretch paired with some blatant lies that make me want to second guess that read. Apart from that, not many viable scumtells.

In case none of this made sense,

I feel pretty good about havingfitz town.

And I'll be back later with some more reads on various players (and hopefully I'll conclude the scum)

[DeasVail]

I'll get to this over the weekend. Kind of need to read through things. At the moment I don't have much idea where to go. Everyone left has some kind of reason to be town.

[havingfitz]

Prod dodge. C'mon people...say something. 6 days left. Still a lot of time but not at the rate people are participating. Looks like Mew is content to stay on Matt and otherwise stay away. That means Lincolm and DeasVail need to make their moves....i.e. contribute (and yes DV...I see your promise of weekend content).

[Master Mew]

Yes, I'm content with my vote for now. I'm waiting to hear Matt's thoughts on the rest of the players, particularly DeasVail.

[Cheery Dog]

prodding Lincolm for the second time this page, shorter prod limits for him!

Actually given the overall activity level, anyone mind if I reduce everyones? Starting after your next post of course.

[projectmatt]

reads list later

[DeasVail]

Ok this is where I'm going to go:

Vote: Mew

His play on its own has been scummy and with everyone having some kind of 'interaction with scum' reason to be town, this is what makes him my preferred target. The reasoning is what I've said before. Mostly him being more self-conscious and more concerned about what people think of him than I'd expect town to be.

[Cheery Dog]

Noone wants my rule 6b then, they don't pick up the prods after I mention it.

(though it might be that 6c is in play)

Searching for a Lincolm replacement.

[DeasVail]

I don't really mind about the prod rules, as long as they're not just way too long as far as times go.

[havingfitz]

Searching for a Lincolm replacement.

suck.

If Lincolm is in fact out...I just hope his replacement does a good read-through and helps us avoid needing a N5.

[projectmatt]

Ok this is where I'm going to go:

Vote: Mew

His play on its own has been scummy and with everyone having some kind of 'interaction with scum' reason to be town, this is what makes him my preferred target. The reasoning is what I've said before. Mostly him being more self-conscious and more concerned about what people think of him than I'd expect town to be.

What is my and havings mafia interaction reason for us to be town?

(This is somewhat of a filler post but with the deadline dwindling down I'll make a post either late tonight or early-ish tomorrow.)

[Master Mew]

Ok this is where I'm going to go:

Vote: Mew

His play on its own has been scummy and with everyone having some kind of 'interaction with scum' reason to be town, this is what makes him my preferred target. The reasoning is what I've said before. Mostly him being more self-conscious and more concerned about what people think of him than I'd expect town to be.

This is clever - I cannot address this charge without becoming what you accuse me of being. Nicely done.

[DeasVail]

What is the benefit of implying I'm scum when you don't actually think it?

[DeasVail]

What is my and havings mafia interaction reason for us to be town?

(This is somewhat of a filler post but with the deadline dwindling down I'll make a post either late tonight or early-ish tomorrow.)

The main thing with Fitz was the Breakfast post that Empire pointed out.

With you it's stuff I've said before. A lot of it's weak, but there are one or two things that I think are reasonably strong indicators of town. You'd probably be my second pick for scum right now, but I'm not sure.

[Cheery Dog]

wind-up has now replaced Lincolm.

Vote Count 5.2

projectmatt (1) Master Mew
Master Mew (1) DeasVail
havingfitz (0)
wind-up (0)
DeasVail (0)

Not voting: wind-up, projectmatt, havingfitz

With 5 alive, it takes 3 to lynch.

Day 5 Deadline

(expired on 2013-03-14 16:02:10)

[projectmatt]

What is my and havings mafia interaction reason for us to be town?

(This is somewhat of a filler post but with the deadline dwindling down I'll make a post either late tonight or early-ish tomorrow.)

The main thing with Fitz was the Breakfast post that Empire pointed out.

With you it's stuff I've said before. A lot of it's weak, but there are one or two things that I think are reasonably strong indicators of town. You'd probably be my second pick for scum right now, but I'm not sure.

What are the strong indicators of town?

[Master Mew]

What is the benefit of implying I'm scum when you don't actually think it?

1. Because reads can change over time.

2. I didn't call you scum, I acknowledged your entrapment, which you have neglected to defend. Townies can practice entrapment as well, it is not necessarily a scum tactic, it just isn't especially helpful in pursuing objective reads.

[DeasVail]

-Rob suspects PMatt fairly seriously starting from 40. When he later switches to Denis, he doesn't really provide a reason for Denis being town. I actually think mafia may be more self-conscious about switching their vote from a buddy and would feel the need to have a reason to call their buddy town/a reason not to vote for them. I think this is potentially weak too and maybe I'm wrong, but it's what I'm thinking at the moment. Oh, and just saw that it comes at a time when there is a PMatt wagon. I think this point may be better now.

-Also, if Rob is going to vote Matt-scum in 396 and not HD, why does he need to end up bussing HD? I'm sure he'd feel fine about being on PMatt with HD getting lynched. (Scum would feel like they are still tricking the town by actually being on a counterwagon on their buddy!!) and I only really see the vote on HD happening if he was voting for a townie beforehand. I feel like all these reasons I'm bringing up are possibly flawed, yet together I think they make it unlikely for PMatt to be scum.

~~

I think those were the main ones.

[DeasVail]

But I never accused you of caring too much after I gave you no choice. That is something you are essentially accusing me of doing before I even did it. I don't need to defend it if it wasn't the intention. And in my mind it is only entrapment if I'm scum and that was the intention. I'm not taking advantage of your 'entrapment' so I don't see the problem.

Oh, this is in response to Mew by the way.

[Master Mew]

You've been calling me scum for unelaborated reasons for several phases now - this has been the longstanding disagreement between us, it is hardly a recent development. You'll throw my name into a list of "prob-scum," without explanation, I'll ask why, and you'll say I'm being defensive - I'll press for further explanation of your scumread on me, then you'll say it's mostly because I'm being defensive.

You don't see how that's frustrating?