NY 118 - BBM's Large Normal Mafia (Game!)

[singersigner]

I've seen all the WoTs, and I'll be commenting on them tomorrow.

At first glace...Xite, make up your mind? Putting a vote on someone doesn't actually mean you've convinced us that you've made a decision on who you think you should vote for. You made a shpeal of not tunneling before, so make sure that's not what you're doing here for the wrong reasons, k?

[Gorrad]

Xite, what of that ISO says town? I see the majority, though not all, of your comments pointing at Wraithscum.

[Gorrad]

Also, I just realized I hadn't made this point yet, which is odd because I usually do in such a situation. All those posts where Wraith's only point is to try for townpoints? Hey, guess what- TOWN DOESN'T NEED TOWNPOINTS. Town needs other people's scumpoints. Scum need townpoints. A townie goes into a game of mafia saying 'Hey, let's find the scum'. A scum goes into a game of mafia saying 'Hey, I'm gonna try to not be lynched'.

To everyone: Of those two categories, can you REALLY see Wraith in the former more than the latter? If he were honestly town, if he sooooo didn't want to play the game he signed up for by scumhunting, which is what town do in a mafia game, he'd have left by now.

[Robbnva]

Okay, so everything you used as a way to defend yourself was WIFOM, your opinions, and "no, you're wrong."
Ironically enough, this is a big scumtell as well.

And 21 was one of my big points as in what I said about 21. You were trying to use something you had posted DIRECTLY BEFORE you posted here as your way of defending yourself. That is scummy, no matter how you slice it.

Opinions =/= hey this could be it, but so could this, but I might be wrong, that's what we call sitting on the fence.
The throwing spaghetti part is more along the lines of, well on my site, we lynch lurkers, and things to that effect (because when no one comments on it, you drop it. If you were that apt to do so, you'd push for it.)
Speaking like SOMEONE is definitely town. Not you, but someone else, in this case Frank. Wow. Please learn to read.
I really like "yawn" as a response. That's the best defense ever.

Unvote, Vote: Robbie

You just completely surpassed wraith as scum IMHO

Preview edit: Dammit. And I just changed my vote too

1. hardly any of my stuff is truly WIFOM
2. if my opinion can be discredited so can yours, almost everything you have posted being scummy about me is your opinion, so using your own logic it can be discredited, especially if you are mafia (which I am beginning to think you are)
3. I can easily say you are wrong when you say I am scum, cause YOU ARE WRONG. I am not scum,I am pro-town. This is not my opinion, this is FACT. only way to prove it though is at the end of the game, or when I am lynched, or if I am killed.
4. changing bandwagons this late in a game is scummy, especially since you have no proof or really no substantial evidence I am scum. All your accusations towards me are baseless and biased. You went back with the intent of finding me scum, so you take everything I say and twist it to make it seem like scum. If somebody went back and tried to prove I was town, they could easily take those same words and twist it to show I was town.

It seems like you are trying to our as many townies as you can and this is very suspicious and scummy.

[danakillsu]

My opinion on walls of text.
Gorrad: town
Xite: scummy
Robbnva: neutral
Mysterio: town
hiphop: scummy
If the Wraith wagon actually does fall apart, I would definitely vote for hiphop or Xite, preferably hiphop, since Xite hasn't been too scummy before this whole thing.

[danakillsu]

NOTE: The above post just talks about the last page, not the whole game.

[Lowell]

Let's just get someone (not wraith) killed and get on with it. I'm bored and I just got here.

[Gorrad]

3. I can easily say you are wrong when you say I am scum, cause YOU ARE WRONG. I am not scum,I am pro-town. This is not my opinion, this is FACT. only way to prove it though is at the end of the game, or when I am lynched, or if I am killed.

*SNRK* Ok. Yeah. You have a point, Xite.

[Robbnva]

Proclaiming I'm pro town is scummy?

[Gorrad]

As stated above- Town don't need to prove they're town. Town need to find scum.

[Kise]

You guys didn't know I'm the Godfather Hunter? Lynch Porochaz, see his flip, then be amazed.

@hiphop: Do you still want me to answer that "question" of yours.... (?_?)
Also, how in the world did you expect people to know you were randomly voting Wraith at the top of the game? You carried a serious tone so there's nothing for anyone else to detect randomness behind it. People have had this argument many a time in MD, but I personally don't believe that every game has a set stage that requires everyone to be random. In your case, I think it was just convenient for you to throw down the excuse that your D1 vote was random so you could lazily avoid explaining that wack bandwagon request.

[Kise]

Let me put it this way: If you join my clan,

then

, and

only then

, will I let you in on the secret to determining someone's role based on playstyle. Until then, consider my work for-hire only.

[xRECKONERx]

You guys didn't know I'm the Godfather Hunter? Lynch Porochaz, see his flip, then be amazed.

Is this serious?

[Kise]

I'm pretty sure you were in that game where I pegged Xyl as GF day 1... yeah, I'm sure you were.

(Upper-case my name, fool!)

[Wickedestjr]

Let me ask you this wicked, is bandwagoning scummy?

Doing it occasionally isn't too bad, but jumping on every bandwagon is suspicious in my opinion.

1. I think it was mostly that it caught my attention.
2. Because that is the truth? It didn't address my points. I didn't unvote. It addressed yours. You did unvote.

1. What was the purpose of your vote for singersigner?
2. This doesn't answer my question.

Basically your case against me is a load of crap and in my eyes it actually reduces your town cred because nothing that you pointed out is a 100% scum tell, NOTHING.

Are

you

100% certain that

Wraith

is scum?

2) Robbn is a poor player. Poor town or poor scum, either way pings people's scumdars. Wraith is not a bad player, I believe. I believe he is a remarkably scummy player.

This seems biased.

He's once again avoiding the main wagons for obvious townie points and somehow thinks Wraith is town.

*sighs* I hate when people use arguments like this. Did you see how I responded to Robbnva when he brought this up?

First of all, he never explains why he thinks Wraith is town.

This is suspicious because?

Furthermore, his fake scumhunting seems to originate from a scum perspective.

...sorry?

As a townie, avoiding bandwagons because it might make you look scummy shouldn't even cross your mind.

When did I say I was avoiding the bandwagon to look townie? I never said this.

He then places a vote on Flinter who has absolutely NO CHANCE of being lynched. It is essentially a throw away vote.

Oh my gosh. Honestly, everybody voting Wraith is wasting their vote. If we tunnelvision on obvious townies you want then we will have no good reads on any of the scum flying under the radar.

[Gorrad]

How could it be biased? I don't think I've played with either of them. If I have, it's been months and I don't remember. This is my first game of 2010.

[Robbnva]

@ wicked no I am not sure he is 100% scum but you seem to know that he is 100% not scum and there is only a few ways you could know that.

@ Kise - so you got lucky in 1 game and you think you are the designated GF hunter? as charlie brown would say "Good Grief"

@ gorrad - when accused of being scum, yeah town needs to proclaim they are town. I did not proclaim I was town until Xite questioned me and said he was pretty sure I am scum. I am not changing my vote on Wraith until we have something more tangible, the reasons I am voting him is good enough for me at the moment. he is the person who I most think is scum right now.

[Wickedestjr]

How could it be biased? I don't think I've played with either of them. If I have, it's been months and I don't remember. This is my first game of 2010.

I get the impression you suspect Wraith a lot because of all the attention he's gotten.

@ wicked no I am not sure he is 100% scum but you seem to know that he is 100% not scum and there is only a few ways you could know that.

My point is that there are no scumtells that are 100%. Also, regarding Wraith, experience plays a large part in why I believe him to be town: I have come across/seen many players like him.

[Robbnva]

How could it be biased? I don't think I've played with either of them. If I have, it's been months and I don't remember. This is my first game of 2010.

I get the impression you suspect Wraith a lot because of all the attention he's gotten.

@ wicked no I am not sure he is 100% scum but you seem to know that he is 100% not scum and there is only a few ways you could know that.

My point is that there are no scumtells that are 100%. Also, regarding Wraith, experience plays a large part in why I believe him to be town: I have come across/seen many players like him.

but you don't seem to think he has showed any scum tells, you just blindly are saying he is innocent.

if you want to make a case for somebody being town, do it. The only way to stop a bandwagon is with some sort of evidence or some sort of logical rationale as to why we are misreading him as scum.

[Shanba]

Gorrad, have I got this straight? You're saying that proclaiming your pro-townness is scummy? It's really not. A lot of newer players who get frustrated when they have wagons on them will start just screaming that they're town because nothign else seems to be working. In my experience, proclaiming yourself town is a newbtell, not a scumtell.

Building a case on Prozac tomorrow. Also, hi guys, I'm back!

[flinter]

http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 52&t=13655

I have only one completed game here, and I was scum here. I'm sorry, but this is all you get.

Scumlist:

Mysterio: gave my reasons already
Reckoner: he keeps coming with excuses. Further, his vote on Frank was quite terrible, and his vote on day 2 is on dana, because he investigated a death player. (dana was told to do that). His vote is still there.
Singer: Again, I already gave my reasons.
Bunnylover: Already told you why I suspect him.

Gorrad is quite special on this moment. I'm not fond of his aggressive rallying for the wraith lynch. It feels like he is overdoing it. Regardless of allignment, he is playing it. I don't yet know if this is with town intentions.
In the same catagory is Shanba. I'm not fond of his play, but I can't yet put the finger on it why he is scum. These two are at the bottom of my scumlist. I want to keep an eye on them.

[Flameaxe]

Votecount 2.11

Wraith [6] (Gorrad, Mysterio, Benmage, ConfidAnon, danakillsu, Rob)

Mysterio [3] (Flinter, Singersigner, @.@)
Prozac [2] (Shanba, Kise)
Hiphop [1] (Prozac)
UltimaAvalon [1] (UltimaAvalon)
dana [1] (Reck)
Flinter [1] (Wickedestjr)
ConfidAnon [1] (Bunnylover)
Bunnylover [1] (Lowell)
Robbnva [1] (Xite)

Not Voting [2] (My Milked Eek, Wraith)

With 21 alive it will take 11 for a lynch and 11 for a no lynch.

Deadline:

Not currently in place.

[Gorrad]

In my experience, Shanba, yeah. It's scummy. It's been my opinion since the first game I played that a town player's main focus should be on scumhunting. Defensive posts, posts proclaiming one's towniness, all those take a back seat to, I dunno, trying to win.

[Porochaz]

Hi Shanba. This is still a test post.

Edit. Still a test post.

[Benmage]

I'm about a pg behind....but

Robb

, please stop with the inquote blue response posting...it's killing me to read, and hard to comment on.