Cold War Mafia - GAME OVER!!

[Amrun]

Yes, but Che Guevara also gave a big "fuck you" to the world, imho.

My major problem with your claim is the supposed lack of flavor.

We actually have similar claims, but yours has NO flavor, just a name, and mine has tons. I just can't reconcile that.

[gonnano]

Guevara was fighting for peace (his version of peace, but still peace), and McCarthy was after power. Both were actually enemies of the peace, but you can see why I think that flavor-wise McCarthy is the slightest amount scummier.

It doesn't matter much which one flips first, but it just makes sense to lynch the scummier one first in case something goes wrong with lynching the other one tomorrow.

Can anyone explain to me why a roleblocker is so much more dangerous than a silencer? Here's the situation as I see it.

-Che is most likely a mafia RB. (as someone said earlier, third party RB doesn't make much sense)
-A mafia RB has a certain chance of blocking a town PR. It's less than the chance of him not blocking a town PR.
-If the RB happens to target a town PR, he might be blocking a Vig or Doc or some other role that doesn't have a very good chance of helping the town on N1.
-If the RB doesn't happen to target a town PR, he could potentially be blocking American scum. This would actually help the town.

If there's roughly a 20 or 25 percent chance that RB blocks a town PR, and then there's maybe a 50% chance that the town PR was going to do something helpful, that works out to a 10 to 13 percent chance that the RB hurts the town on N1. And even then the damage likely wouldn't be severe, because the town would still have other PRs that weren't blocked.

Compare that to silencing, where the mafia gets to take away the vote (a townie's most powerful tool) of whoever is the most dangerous to them, and knows exactly who to target. 100 percent effective except for the outside chance of being blocked. Obviously the RB is more powerful later in the game, but right now I think the silencer is more dangerous.

Also two scum groups and American scum?

I'm not sure exactly what you're asking, but I'm assuming that if McCarthy is around there are more like him. I guess it's possible that the mod could have put Che and McCarthy on the same team, but they seem like very separate threats to the peace.

---------------------------------------------

As I said earlier, I will move my vote to Bunny if the town doesn't agree with me that Amrun should die first. We've still got several hours left before deadline, though, so I think everyone should at least consider it. If you're voting for someone besides Amrun or Bunny, I think it's time to pick a side. No one else is going to give us more information from a flip, and both candidates are plenty scummy.

[Amrun]

You're going to have to prove your statement that McCarthy was out for power, because I don't understand it at all.

[DavidParker]

Che Guevara not wanting war? What is this?

Honestly, between my role and what bunny is saying, if she actually flips town, then this game is bastard. Period. :/

My name claim begs to differ.

[Amrun]

Shit or get off the pot, David. I see no nameclaim for you.

[smargaret]

Is there a reason for him to nameclaim, or are you rolefishing?

[Amrun]

No. He hasn't nameclaimed and I don't want him to.

But he can't use his "nameclaim" like that if we don't know what it is.

[gonnano]

You're going to have to prove your statement that McCarthy was out for power, because I don't understand it at all.

After three largely undistinguished years in the Senate, McCarthy rose suddenly to national fame in February 1950 when he asserted in a speech that he had a list of "members of the Communist Party and members of a spy ring" who were employed in the State Department. McCarthy was never able to prove his sensational charge.

From 1950 onward, McCarthy continued to exploit the fear of Communism and to press his accusations that the government was failing to deal with Communism within its ranks. These accusations received wide publicity, increased his approval rating, and gained him a powerful national following.

[ThAdmiral]

Also yes gonnao is still scummy, but you do realized he just tried to shift the wagon off Bunny onto Amrun with the intent of lynching the other if one flips town.

Are you serious? He was suggesting nothing of the sort. He said: "So my preference would be to lynch McCarthy today, then lynch Che tomorrow unless we find out that the flavor is unreliable." I.e. only if amrum flips

scum

.

I'm convinced you can do nothing but misrep people in this game. I sincerely hope you are scum because you are playing terribly.


If it's out of amrum and bunny I will:

unvote
vote: amrum

I will be on before the deadline and will switch to bunny if needs be to ensure a lynch.

[Amrun]

You're going to have to prove your statement that McCarthy was out for power, because I don't understand it at all.

After three largely undistinguished years in the Senate, McCarthy rose suddenly to national fame in February 1950 when he asserted in a speech that he had a list of "members of the Communist Party and members of a spy ring" who were employed in the State Department. McCarthy was never able to prove his sensational charge.

From 1950 onward, McCarthy continued to exploit the fear of Communism and to press his accusations that the government was failing to deal with Communism within its ranks. These accusations received wide publicity, increased his approval rating, and gained him a powerful national following.

This fails to prove McCarthy's motivation. Just because what he DID gained him a national following doesn't mean that his motivation was to seek power.

Splitting hairs much?


@ThAd: Explain to me why you think that move makes sense.

[gonnano]

Well, he lied about having a list of soviet spies in the State Department, then he gained a lot of attention and power. I wasn't inside his head at the time, but somehow I don't think he just did it for fun. He lied about something as big as that and didn't gain anything from it besides attention and political power.
Is it splitting hairs to assume that his purpose was to gain attention and political power?

If you want me to "prove" someone's motivation I don't think I'm going to be able to help you. All I can do is tell you what they did, what they gained, and the motivation that makes sense for those actions.

[Amrun]

How do you know he lied? Maybe he really thought they were spies.

My point is you're either overthinking it or intentionally creating WIFOM. His surface motivation was definitely not power. We can't guess what was in his heart and I doubt the mod tried to, either.

[gonnano]

Well, he constantly changed the details of his story, like how many spies there were for instance. If he really thought they were spies, he would have tried to figure out how many there were before he went public.

It's possible that he really was trying to get rid of Communism and was just very very very bad at finding actual Communists. But that's just as impossible to "prove" as my claim that he was doing it for the power.

The fact is that he accused people of being traitors based on absolutely no evidence, and that behavior is really only explained by a lust for power.

[EGL]

unvote vote: AmRun

One of my top two. I still dislike the McCarthy+Silencer claims. I dislike the early slip from her predecessor in the game setup. And I think there's more to learn from her flip than Bunny's flip.

[EGL]

@Gonnanno, if he was trying to get rid of communism doesn't that make him as suspect as Che Guevara for flavor? The thing is that I don't think involvement in military conflicts and unpopular foreign policy is adequate to make someone scum in this game, for whatever reason.

[Amrun]

@gonnano: Or stupidity. The point is that you're trying to outguess the mod. McCarthy is known for trying to out Commie spies -- scum, in this situation. His motivation doesn't really matter and can't be proven.

@EgL: I'm going to type your name EgL from now on. It's been shown over and over again that the "slip" wasn't a slip at all, but badly worded speculation based on another game.

@both of you: How do you reconcile Bunny's total lack of flavor?

[gonnano]

EGL: what about the "threat to the peace" wincon?

Amrun: so does this "surface motivation" thing work for everyone or only for you? Were Stalin and Castro just all-around good guys trying to help their countries the best way they knew how?

and I explain Bunny's flavor like this: He's lying scum who had to come up with some flavor that didn't immediately incriminate him. Unfortunately, he's not very good at flavor.

[Amrun]

Stalin and Castro are not comparable to McCarthy at all and that should be obvious.

I have said time and time again that I know why my character looks scummy. I can't help that. Not my problem. Tired of arguing about it.

So Bunny is 100% for sure scum, but you vote for me?

[Amrun]

And quite frankly, if Stalin came up town in this game I wouldn't be THAT surprised, the way things are going.

[EGL]

@Amrun, at least I'm not calling you Artem. I thought I saw your name spelled with the capital R before. My apologies. I mess up ThAd's casing sometimes, too, I think.

And yeah Gonnano what you just said doesn't make sense. Please explain.

[EGL]

@Amrun I forgot you had pointed out that she was saying she GUESSES about US vs. Soviets. But still, why would she guess that if her wincon said she won when all threats to peace were gone?

[Amrun]

@EGL: It's fine. I've probably messed up ThAd too.

And to be honest, about PI, she must have just been rushing through her PM, and it's also clear that English isn't her first language. However, to be technical, there is nothing that specifies that all the threats to the peace AREN'T Soviets.

My best guess is she saw McCarthy and assumed that if it WASN'T US vs. Soviets, she would be scum, but she's town, so she assumed US vs. Soviets (faulty reasoning).


I addressed the Bunny question to you as well, EGL, and I might as well address it to ThAd as well while I'm at it.

[gonnano]

I'm not trying to say that McCarthy was a communist dictator, I'm just saying that if you can't look at anything beyond surface motivation, then how can you accuse those communist dictators of wanting power when outwardly they said they were just trying to make life fair for everyone, redistributing the wealth as necessary?
I'll tell you how. You look at their actions, look at what they gained, and then decide what motivation fits the best.

Re: Bunny's flavor

I don't want war.
I don't believe people share that interest.
Thats all =/.

It doesn't 100% guarantee that Bunny is scum, Amrun. There are multiple ways to interpret it, but I chose the one that I find most likely, which is that bunny is scum and made this up on the spot.

[Amrun]

@gonnano: You're missing the point that it's irrelevant here. McCarthy obviously had several screws loose in real life and it's hard to say which ones they were ... and it does NOT MATTER.

So bunny is most likely scum, but you try to re-start the wagon on me?

I'm still failing to see how this makes sense.

[gonnano]

First you said this:

You're going to have to prove your statement that McCarthy was out for power, because I don't understand it at all.

So I tried. It's gone quite a bit further than I thought it would, but the reason I've participated in the whole back-and-forth is because McCarthy's motivation supports the thing that you say you still don't understand.

So bunny is most likely scum, but you try to re-start the wagon on me?

I'm still failing to see how this makes sense.

Guevara was fighting for peace (his version of peace, but still peace), and McCarthy was after power. Both were actually enemies of the peace, but you can see why I think that flavor-wise McCarthy is the slightest amount scummier.

It doesn't matter much which one flips first, but it just makes sense to lynch the scummier one first in case something goes wrong with lynching the other one tomorrow.

Yes, I think Bunny is most likely scum. I also think you're most likely scum. It made more sense to me to lynch you first.

-----------------------------------------------
I'll probably check in one more time before deadline. Barring any miracles, it looks like I'll be switching my vote to Bunny.