Mini 1140 - Mafia Mishmash...Game Over!!

[Regfan]

Do you mind explaining why it took you 18 minutes to claim?

[Hinduragi]

I ordered a pizza and took a shower.

[Maxous]

Eh we did'nt mass-claim..
CMAR claimed it earlier, I guess they did'nt beleive him.


Considering there is another replacement, I'll re-consider the merits of NL. Still if Hinduragi can catch-up about 2 days before deadline that would be fantastic ^_^

[vollkan]

CMAR claimed it earlier, I guess they did'nt beleive him.

Belief or not, it's good practice to force replacements to reclaim, on the off-chance that they will forget to see if their predecessor has already claimed.

[subgenius]

I'm more than a bit concerned by the swiftness with which CMAR/Hinduragi has garnered the majority of the town's tentative votes. I would be surprised if this many town players settled on a single player with so little discussion, and I don't believe that mafia would be very to bus in our current situation.

Current votes/intents to vote:
Me
Maxous
SB
bgg
Regfan

I'm pretty confident there is scum in this group. I'm currently leaning Regfan since he has displayed the least suspicion of CMAR in the past. I think he said he would be willing to vote for CMAR at the end of Day 2, but other than that he was pretty ambivalent about the case against him. I've had a null tell on him for most of the game, but I have a bad feeling about this pseudo-wagon, and he's the one that sticks out the most to me.

unvote

[Scott Brosius]

So there is scum in that group where you have included yourself (lol) and a 96% confirmed bgg. So I guess you think the scumteam is me Max and regfan (or 2 of 3 depending on size of scum)? This is a HUGE change of heart from the following...

I'll admit it. I'm pretty mad at this point. Why the hell has CMAR done nothing in this game except bread crumb a role and claim with one vote on him? WTF. This is absurd. I don't know what to do at the moment, and I'm just about beyond caring.

On the one hand, CMAR's claim meshes with Haylen's thematically, on the other hand, he could be a mafia Jail Keeper or just plain lying. I don't know, I'm tempted to just take both their claims at face value since it narrows down the field so greatly. After crossing Bgg, CMAR, and Haylen off the list, that leaves Regfan, CKD, Vollkan, and Max. TBH, I don't find any of the latter four all that scummy, although there is almost certainly at least one maf in there. Christ, I just don't know, but I think the town has failed epically in this game, myself included.

Where you list 3 of the 4 members on your new scumteam as not scummy. That's a pretty big change of heart in a week where basically the only content has been me replacing in.

Also the CMAR wagon has been anything but swift. This game is crawling. This is a really lame reason to unvote. The "wagon" was just you and me. That's hardly garnering the town's tentative votes. I'm just getting a vibe that your posts aren't genuine and that makes them scummy.

Subgenius, Vollkan, CMAR. My vote will be on one of those three by deadline to secure a lynch (unless something really bizarre happens)

[Maxous]

and I don't believe that mafia would be very to bus in our current situation.

Completely disagree.

After CMAR almost being lynched on Day 2 it would be very pratical for mafia to bus him in this situation.

That group you listed, is there scum in that? I'm unsure to be honest. I'm thinking maybe the mafia pairing is Haylen - Hinduragi (due to predeccessors actions of course). If there is a third member - I'm a bit stumped.

I agree with Scott, this game is crawling. I avoided voting to leave it closer to the deadline, but to be honest I think we have went a bit too far with delaying the game for the sake of it.
I think everybody has agreed with CMAR being suspect.

Apologies Hinduragi, but I can't ignore CMAR's actions (and Truant's to a slightly lesser extent). CMAR did'nt really follow a consistent thoughtline in terms of his suspects - particulary in relation to wheter or not he suspected Bgg to be mafia. His vote and unvote on Bgg early on has been well discussed. I discussed why I thought Truant was suspicious earlier.
Jailkeeper is a pratical enough role for a mafia to have in this game (with the SK).

I'm going with this lynch.
VOTE: Hinduragi

If people disagree and want to no-lynch, I will live with it. But I'm confident about this slot.

[havingfitz]

Votecount 3.7:

Hinduragi - 2 (Scott Brosius, Maxous)

Scott Brosius - 1 (bgg1996)
No Lynch - 1 (vollkan)

Not voting: (subgenius, Hinduragi, Haylen, Regfan)

With 8 players left it’s 5 to lynch.

Note...I will be v/LA until Tuesday evening. If there is a hammer before I return whomever is hammered should not post as I consider the hammer the point they are deceased. Not sure I would do this in future games but I am remaining consistent in this game as that is how I conducted this game's previous lynchs.

Day 3 deadline is 0200 EST, April 28th.

[subgenius]

So there is scum in that group where you have included yourself (lol) and a 96% confirmed bgg. So I guess you think the scumteam is me Max and regfan (or 2 of 3 depending on size of scum)?

I don't believe I said the scum team is You, Max, and Regfan. I think it's quite premature to speculate on scumteams before we've found even a single confirmed scum. I said I think there is scum involvement on the CMAR wagon and Regfan is the one that seems most likely to me. If I intended to argue that the entire scum team was on the wagon, I would have said so.

This is a HUGE change of heart from the following...

I'll admit it. I'm pretty mad at this point. Why the hell has CMAR done nothing in this game except bread crumb a role and claim with one vote on him? WTF. This is absurd. I don't know what to do at the moment, and I'm just about beyond caring.

On the one hand, CMAR's claim meshes with Haylen's thematically, on the other hand, he could be a mafia Jail Keeper or just plain lying. I don't know, I'm tempted to just take both their claims at face value since it narrows down the field so greatly. After crossing Bgg, CMAR, and Haylen off the list, that leaves Regfan, CKD, Vollkan, and Max. TBH, I don't find any of the latter four all that scummy, although there is almost certainly at least one maf in there. Christ, I just don't know, but I think the town has failed epically in this game, myself included.

Where you list 3 of the 4 members on your new scumteam as not scummy. That's a pretty big change of heart in a week where basically the only content has been me replacing in.

How on earth does this contradict my most recent post? I was mad at the CMAR claim because it threw a wrench in my suspicions of him. At the time, I wasn't sure how to interpret it, and that was frustrating. The scum team listed in this post is the one that would result from hypothetically taking CMAR and Haylen's claims at face value and seeing if it made sense. Even if I don't consider any of those four players scummy, I'm almost sure at least one of them is a scum player who is playing very well.

Changes of content since that post: Maxous saying he would likely vote for CMAR, regfan saying he would likely vote for CMAR, bgg saying he would vote for CMAR, and you voting for CMAR. Those are important developments.

Also the CMAR wagon has been anything but swift. This game is crawling. This is a really lame reason to unvote. The "wagon" was just you and me. That's hardly garnering the town's tentative votes. I'm just getting a vibe that your posts aren't genuine and that makes them scummy.

All of these votes or commitments to vote happened within just over a 24 hour period:
Maxous ISO 77Apr 21, 10:47 am
SB ISO 2Apr 21, 10:15 pm
Regfan ISO 115Apr 21, 11:41 pm
Bgg ISO 180Apr 22, 12:40 am

This is pretty fast considering there was nobody pushing a case and more players were discussing whether or not to lynch at all than who to lynch. This sudden focusing of attention on CMAR seems unnatural and untown to me.

After CMAR almost being lynched on Day 2 it would be very pratical for mafia to bus him in this situation.

I don't think so. If there are 3 scum left right now, the mafia are very close to winning the game. Bussing would result in an extra day and a solid lead for the town to work with, and the benefits would be minimal since there would be less time for the bussing players to capitalize on their town cred than if they had done so earlier in the game.

If there are only 2 mafia, the other maf would be taking a huge risk by bussing his teammate, thus ensuring that he can only win in a 3 man lylo.

[Scott Brosius]

I only consider actual votes. Votes speak louder than weak deadline NL avoiding promises.

Also the whole x scum are in this group of people argument is flawed. At this point I can take any group of 2-4 people and probably find scum in it. So it doesn't really have value.

I did not realize CMAR was almost strung up D2. This further solidifies my vote.

[bgg1996]

the scumteam is me Max and regfan (or 2 of 3 depending on size of scum)?

Bingo.

Anyway, I change my mind, I don't think I'll be voting for the one whose only votes are you two, my top suspects.

3. Regfan
5. Maxous
6. vollkan
7. CryMeARiver Truant
8. Scott Brosius curiouskarmadog
9. bgg1996
11. subgenius *
13. Haylen yura-chi

Subgenius
Maxous
SB
bgg
Regfan

If we assume that all of these people actually are town, then the scumteam would be composed of people in the group

6. vollkan
7. Hinduragi

CryMeARiver

Truant

13. Haylen

yura-chi

I highly doubt that this is the scum team. (Or even any 2-person teams in there)


That means that at least one of

Subgenius
Maxous
SB
bgg
Regfan

is non-town.

Either somebody bussed, or hinduragi is actually town.



Also, from the original players,

3. Regfan
5. Maxous
6. vollkan
7. Hinduragi
8. Scott
9. bgg1996
11. subgenius
13. Haylen

Taking away me and vollkan, who are almost certaintly not scum, we get

3. Regfan
5. Maxous
7. Hinduragi
8. Scott
11. subgenius
13. Haylen

This next part might take a bit. I'll post this now.

[bgg1996]

I just remembered something, and realized how important it is.

[bgg1996]

No, nevermind, it wasn't that important. *sigh*

[Regfan]

I'm currently leaning Regfan since he has displayed the least suspicion of CMAR in the past. I think he said he would be willing to vote for CMAR at the end of Day 2, but other than that he was pretty ambivalent about the case against him. I've had a null tell on him for most of the game, but I have a bad feeling about this pseudo-wagon, and he's the one that sticks out the most to me.

This is a complete misrepresntation of the situation at hand, and something I expected much better from you. Lets take a look at the actual facts:

April 4th I vote for CryMe due to him being my strongest suspect at the time.
April 6th I state agreement and disagreement with portions of the case against CryMe
April 6th I state I still believe River is mafia, just not with as much strength as I did in the past, state I have no issue voting him at all.
April 6th I state reads from strongest to weakest with CryMe being the highest of any alive player.
April 13th I state my full list of reads with CryMe as my strongest mafia read.
April 21st I reaffirm confidence in a CryMe potential lynch.

[vollkan]

All of these votes or commitments to vote happened within just over a 24 hour period:
Maxous ISO 77Apr 21, 10:47 am
SB ISO 2Apr 21, 10:15 pm
Regfan ISO 115Apr 21, 11:41 pm
Bgg ISO 180Apr 22, 12:40 am

This is pretty fast considering there was nobody pushing a case and more players were discussing whether or not to lynch at all than who to lynch. This sudden focusing of attention on CMAR seems unnatural and untown to me.

I haven't read back to confirm or refute this, but if you take account of the

history

of suspicion of CMAR (especially the D2 suspicion), I don't think it would look quite so dramatic as you present it. Also, to an extent, I think it's only natural that people would begin to declare their position in quick succession as the deadline approached, especially given the added uncertainty arising from the NL issue.

[Regfan]

Volkan hit the nail on the head, though another thing to note is the actual players on the list:

Bgg - Has been strongly pushing a CMAR lynch throughout the game and still remains to be the cop clear. In what way is him pushing towards his preffered lynch untown?
SB - Only replaced in recently meaning the fact he states he's suspecting CMAR now is a null-tell due to the fact he wasn't here earlier to state an opinion on him.
Maxous - Had his vote on CMAR throughout the entirety of yesterday meaning his suspicion isn't 'new' nor is it related to other people suspecting CMAR at the current moment.

[Scott Brosius]

Isn't redirector a role that doesn't really fall under the "normal" category? I only skimmed D2 so I don't know if this was brought up.

[Scott Brosius]

#
Mechanics which are explicitly Non-Normal include:

* Those affecting a role's alignment (no Cults).
* Anything which significantly affects the core mechanic of majority/plurality lynches (no Kingmaker, for example).
* Anything resolving with a random element, with the exception of missed night choices. It must be included in the public ruleset if you are resolving night choices in this way.
* Post Restrictions (other than those included in the ruleset, such as "No quoting your Role PM").
* Lying to the players, including False Role Reveals and "Scum Masons".

* Night action redirection (no Bus Driver, Lightning Rod, Nexus, or Redirector).

* Alignments other than Mafia/Werewolf, Pro-Town, and Serial Killer (no Survivor, Lyncher, or Jester).

[Regfan]

Can you please link me to where you got that from. If that is indeed true then Haylen has to be mafia.

[Scott Brosius]

I mean, those rules must be followed? And the normal games get a panel to review them? I feel like I'm missing something here. Either 1. Haylen is scum and FOS in which case terrific we lynch scum or 2. Haylen is tellling the truth and this game is broken and doesn't adhere to normal requirements in which case I don't really care about the outcome. or 3 Haylen is scum and a redirector, which i have mixed feelings about because the game is still broken.

Unvote
Vote: Haylen

Regfan: http://www.mafiascum.net/wiki/index.php ... ormal_game

[Regfan]

Yes, the moderator panel have to approve the setup and only one "Unusual" role is allowed to be used in a setup, that unusual role has already died (Town Sledgehammer).

Vote: Haylen

[bgg1996]

Haylen? Do you have anything to say for yourself?
Although I bet it's 2. , I'm going to

vote:Haylen

now.
I have to hand it to her, I didn't suspect her in the slightest.

[bgg1996]

Well, the slightest, yeah, but only the slightest.

[bgg1996]

Oh, right. I have to

unvote

first, then

vote: Haylen

[Haylen]

Lol what? You guys do realise that mods are allowed to put one or two non-normal roles in a game? I had a Town Godfather in the large normal that I ran, and I think some other weird role too. I went through this with the people who reviewed that game. They were like "well fine...do it if you want..."