MINI 1423 Dark Souls: Prepare to die....YOU DIED

[VP Baltar]

Mostly because I think you're competent enough to fool me easy enough. Not that emp isn't, I just think if he's scum it'd stick out to me more. That being said, I haven't played in a long time and my meta reads on either of you really need to be irrelevant in my consideration. I need to make a pro con analysis of each of you within the context of this game.

[Nachomamma8]

Mostly because I think you're competent enough to fool me easy enough. Not that emp isn't, I just think if he's scum it'd stick out to me more. That being said, I haven't played in a long time and my meta reads on either of you really need to be irrelevant in my consideration. I need to make a pro con analysis of each of you within the context of this game.

Fair enough. I might reread later, but I've definitely done enough of that. I'd rather see what you two come up with first.

[VP Baltar]

Eh, I don't really think you (or anyone left alive) really has the luxury of 'I'm so town I'm just going to sit here and watch you guys fight it out.' Laziness at this point should simply be taken as a pro-scum attitude. I think everyone needs to present valid arguments as to who they think is scum and why.

[Nachomamma8]

Right now, I think you are scum for the same reason you think I am scum, with the added bonus of nightkills that are very... VP Baltar oriented. The switch from "third party survivor" to "scum that is competent enough to fool me" instantly was also a bit weird, and I'm not sure HD would go after both scumpartners in the way he did. The PV bus in and of itself was already a bit strange, but if he saw you pushing hard for a scumbuddy, it's not really out of the realm of possibility for him to take an experienced scumpartner's lead.

[Nachomamma8]

VP, what do you think of the setup speculation leading to me being town? Do you think we had the vengeful hidden partners and a one shot tracker, one shot watcher with no protective role against two scum PRs, maybe 3?

[Nachomamma8]

And do you really think scum plan the night before HD got lynched was "okay, we no-kill despite avoiding shooting VPB because of being afraid of a protective role to set up for OUR protective role claims even though that doesn't work if we don't have protective roles"? Or do you have something that makes a lot more sense?

[VP Baltar]

The switch from "third party survivor" to "scum that is competent enough to fool me" instantly was also a bit weird,

Not really. You pointed out a very valid reason why I was being stupid in even speculating that. Thinking of the survivor angle was a byproduct of second guessing my putting both you and Emp in the town column all game. It's not an after thought as you seem to be suggesting.

[VP Baltar]

VP, what do you think of the setup speculation leading to me being town? Do you think we had the vengeful hidden partners and a one shot tracker, one shot watcher with no protective role against two scum PRs, maybe 3?

I think it's one possible angle, and it's not without its merits. I don't think setup speculation makes you confirmed town.

[VP Baltar]

And do you really think scum plan the night before HD got lynched was "okay, we no-kill despite avoiding shooting VPB because of being afraid of a protective role to set up for OUR protective role claims even though that doesn't work if we don't have protective roles"? Or do you have something that makes a lot more sense?

I think this type of speculation is particularly beyond useful. If you're telling the truth and you're town, sure this makes absolute sense to you. To me, it's just unconfirmable speculation that doesn't mean anything certain to me.

As an aside, I don't think judging from our two dead scum so far, we've exactly seen what I'd call logical scum play, so etc.

[Nachomamma8]

The switch from "third party survivor" to "scum that is competent enough to fool me" instantly was also a bit weird,

Not really. You pointed out a very valid reason why I was being stupid in even speculating that. Thinking of the survivor angle was a byproduct of second guessing my putting both you and Emp in the town column all game. It's not an after thought as you seem to be suggesting.

It's a strange thought, but I wonder why third party was your initial assumption as opposed to "scum", which you brought up second. Considering me third party means that you think me not-scum, meaning that you have some special reason to think me so. Otherwise, why didn't Emp get the honor of being suspected of a third party survivor?

[Nachomamma8]

VP, what do you think of the setup speculation leading to me being town? Do you think we had the vengeful hidden partners and a one shot tracker, one shot watcher with no protective role against two scum PRs, maybe 3?

I think it's one possible angle, and it's not without its merits. I don't think setup speculation makes you confirmed town.

That's a lot of waffling. Is setup speculation a point in my favor? Yes, or no?

[Nachomamma8]

As an aside, I don't think judging from our two dead scum so far, we've exactly seen what I'd call logical scum play, so etc.

But I think you and I are competent enough to be logical scum players. Don't you?

[VP Baltar]

The switch from "third party survivor" to "scum that is competent enough to fool me" instantly was also a bit weird,

Not really. You pointed out a very valid reason why I was being stupid in even speculating that. Thinking of the survivor angle was a byproduct of second guessing my putting both you and Emp in the town column all game. It's not an after thought as you seem to be suggesting.

It's a strange thought, but I wonder why third party was your initial assumption as opposed to "scum", which you brought up second. Considering me third party means that you think me not-scum, meaning that you have some special reason to think me so. Otherwise, why didn't Emp get the honor of being suspected of a third party survivor?

oh I get what you're saying. Mostly because I read you as town because I saw you as legitimately scum hunting. So, survivor fits with that read of your play.

actually, now that I'm thinking about it more, isn't the typical wincon of a survivor not just to outlive the scum but to also make up at least 50% of the surviving players?

[VP Baltar]

VP, what do you think of the setup speculation leading to me being town? Do you think we had the vengeful hidden partners and a one shot tracker, one shot watcher with no protective role against two scum PRs, maybe 3?

I think it's one possible angle, and it's not without its merits. I don't think setup speculation makes you confirmed town.

That's a lot of waffling. Is setup speculation a point in my favor? Yes, or no?

I think what I said is accurate. It's not fully one or the other. That's not waffling so much as being realistic. False dichotomies are false.

[VP Baltar]

OK, guess typical survivor is just to live until someone achieves a wincon, so doesn't matter about 50%.

[Nachomamma8]

VP, what do you think of the setup speculation leading to me being town? Do you think we had the vengeful hidden partners and a one shot tracker, one shot watcher with no protective role against two scum PRs, maybe 3?

I think it's one possible angle, and it's not without its merits. I don't think setup speculation makes you confirmed town.

That's a lot of waffling. Is setup speculation a point in my favor? Yes, or no?

I think what I said is accurate. It's not fully one or the other. That's not waffling so much as being realistic. False dichotomies are false.

No it obviously doesn't make me confirmed town. But giving your opinion on it would be awesome.

[VP Baltar]

I think it's a legit point. I thought that was clear.

[Nachomamma8]

Perfect. I want to talk to Emp now.

[Empking]

Perfect. I want to talk to Emp now.

What do you want to talk about?

[Nachomamma8]

A few things, here and there. Is there anything other than "VP is protown" and "Nacho has setup speculation on his side" that you have to share before I ask you questions? Commenting on #1130 would probably be a good place to start.

[Empking]

1130 makes me sad for what was; in my defence scum-me would have known what he was going to flip.

[VP Baltar]

Working my way through a full retread of the thread and I have some good stuff so far. Ill have a substantial post in the next day or two.

[Nachomamma8]

I lost my phone and my wallet and everything so I need to find them before I return.

[VP Baltar]

Empking, why do you think your reads have been so bad this game?

[Empking]

Empking, why do you think your reads have been so bad this game?

Because my core town read was wrong