Mini 1262 - Game Over (Over!)

[Thor665]

@Seacore - because he claimed Miller. That's an intrinsic increase of his likely townishness. It's not a home run, but the only value in lynching him sans a cop claim is really to force a cop claim - here's my thoughts on that. If there *is* a cop, clearly we probably shouldn't lynch him. If there is a cop and he hasn't claimed, then probably he has reasons thereof. If there is no cop - we can sort out the Furc question in lylo when there's an obligatory claim in any case regardless of if the cop really thinks there's value in the info he has because it has to come out at that stage regardless.

Instead you're like "hurr, I know better than theory power role that he should claim today"

Uh...no, you don't. If the theory cop has three clears then, derp, yeah, he should claim. Two clears and a guilty? Claim ya fool. Lack of claim - so let's push lynch on Furc to force claim...the hell? That makes no sense - the *only* way that makes sense is if you are 100% certain there's no cop (in which case we still don't need to sweat Furc today) *or* you're convinced the player with the cop role is the biggest dork-head in the game of mafia today. So which are you advocating here?

My Reck case is more that he's coasting, just like Furc, but let's be honest - I would expect more from Reck than Furc, so why the coast? And why the weak bus? And why the lolomgbbq on Grimm when Grimm looked at him funny? I don't like it, let's put him to L-1 and see what transpires and sort out Furc later. Reck has been happy coasting and nuthugging weak cases and anytime anyone looks at him he's like "Hey, I weak bussed, yo! Watch as I post in a fury and flurry at you and then return to sadlurk!" C'mon, this isn't rocket science here.

[Seacore]

I don't find a miller claim to be town tell. Like, at all, because the moment it becomes one it stops being one. But I'll run with you on the rest.
I'm not 100% certain, but I'd be pretty damn surprised if there's actually a cop.
But fine, Furc dead can wait until tomorrow, however, if the cop dies before telling us the info, Imma cut you.

On the Reck front, is Reck that good a player? As I said before I've only ever seen him in one game, in that game he got 'Fated' but all he did in reaction to that was this flurry of posts and sadlurking. Pretty much exactly as you're describing. Hell, he even pledged to not return to the game before his inevitable lynch and then returned. This all just looks like town Reck to me.

Also, this whole "lets put him at L-1 and see what happens" just feels like "lets put him at L-1, let some derp like Furc turn up and derphammer and take no blame"
What can't we do at L-2 that we suddenly can do at L-1?

[Thor665]

I don't find a miller claim to be town tell. Like, at all, because the moment it becomes one it stops being one. But I'll run with you on the rest.

I'll happily entertain offerings of scum fakeclaiming as millers. I know I've contemplated doing it because I think it *is* a pretty safe scumtell, but I've never seenit done which is why I'm entertaining it. Considering I'm a psychotic happy/laughy super scum extraordinaire (+1) I tend to believe Furc didn't figure out my awesome scum gambit and use it for himself. Ballsy when there is a possibility of Vigs anyway, yeah?

But fine, Furc dead can wait until tomorrow, however, if the cop dies before telling us the info, Imma cut you.

If cop dies without breadcrumbs than cop is jerk and we can blame our loss on them anyway. I love outsourcing blame.

On the Reck front, is Reck that good a player? As I said before I've only ever seen him in one game, in that game he got 'Fated' but all he did in reaction to that was this flurry of posts and sadlurking.

He usually, to my mind, is more snarky than this. I would have expected him to at least...y'know...realize a case he was pushing didn't exist and was weak before I had to call him out on it three to four times before he did so...and only did so after I'd started calling him townish anyway...yeah.
Also, re-read the Grimm response, comes across as really over the top to a not unreasonable attack from Grimm, and yet he stays quiet on me fo the most part. I think he believes he can emotionally beat up Grimm better than me and so went for that throat, but avoided me as not wanting to get into a scum debate. Just reads all off.

What can't we do at L-2 that we suddenly can do at L-1?

Force a claim and lynch him are the two things that immediately pop to mind.
Why, who should we force a claim from and lynch instead of him? Because I don't see a better option.

[xRECKONERx]

My grandfather has been in the hospital for weeks on his death bed. I just got a call saying this is the end. I am waiting to hear details right now but I may be emergency vla very soon here.

[Thor665]

Dude, that's balls. Take all the time you need.

[Yates]

Dude, that's balls. Take all the time you need.

^

[Thor665]

For the record I still want to lynch the slot though - you should vote him Yates.

[xRECKONERx]

My Reck case is more that he's coasting, just like Furc, but let's be honest - I would expect more from Reck than Furc, so why the coast?

heh:

Total # of times 'You're better than this' or a variation thereof, has been used as a scumtell against me = 18 (and counting)

The coast is there because I've been coasting in all of my games. I haven't had my mind in "mafia mode" in recent weeks due to end of the semester, my grandfather's health problems, and general stress (overdosed on caffeine last week if that's any indication). You can check other games or recently completed ones. My head is in a funk recently. I've actually gone and created an anonymous alt to play under a new name to see if that pulls me out of this spiral.

And why the weak bus?

I don't know what you mean.

And why the lolomgbbq on Grimm when Grimm looked at him funny?

As I said -- I've been flying off the handle recently and even got force-replaced out of a game for flipping out. And i hardly think my response to Grimm was that over the top.

I don't like it, let's put him to L-1 and see what transpires and sort out Furc later. Reck has been happy coasting and nuthugging weak cases and anytime anyone looks at him he's like "Hey, I weak bussed, yo! Watch as I post in a fury and flurry at you and then return to sadlurk!"

I don't think I've used "hey I voted scum" as a defense unless somebody has brought it up as an attack first this entire game. You don't have to put me at L-1 for a claim, I'll happily claim right now and get it over with and the rest of this stupid town can decide how hard they want to derp

C'mon, this isn't rocket science here.

[Thor665]

I'm skipping the family related social stuff becaause it's just uncomfortable and despite all apperances I'm actually a mushy and soft guy at heart - so I don't care to go there in a discussion as relates to this game. If it's affecting your playstyle please just replace out, and I don't hold it against you. If it's not affecting your playstyle stay in the game and don't use it as any angle of defense.

My, trying to be respectful but knowing this comes off a bit crass and being unsure how to change that and still convey point, thoughts.

And why the weak bus?

I don't know what you mean.

Well, probably how you kept wanting to hop off that bus, and even defended it, and then hopped back on at the 11th hour to try to keep some of that precious, precious town energy for yourself.

I don't think I've used "hey I voted scum" as a defense unless somebody has brought it up as an attack first this entire game.

Naaah.
Here;
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 6#p3598846
I'm town - I lynched scum off a weak bus I pretty clearly wanted off of!

You don't have to put me at L-1 for a claim, I'll happily claim right now and get it over with and the rest of this stupid town can decide how hard they want to derp

Well, obviously I'm happy with this - fakeclaim away.
Grimm's onto you, I'm onto you, and no one else is trying to start up a counter worth spit, so you are going to be at L-1 eventually in the near future, so let's skip the middle part where I keep having to browbeat people into it.

[xRECKONERx]

Thor:

You asked me if I had done anything protown all game and I responded by pointing out that I lead the triangle wagon, so let's not try to toss that back in my face

If at least two more people want me to claim I'll do it (besides the ones on my wagon obviously)

[xRECKONERx]

Actually fuck it.

2-shot tracker

Tracked SK N1 and he went nowhere
Tracked Grimmjow N2 and he went nowhere

so fucking useless

[Thor665]

Crumbs?

And weren't you all over Sleepy Day 2 for the lynch?

[Seacore]

Why the hell did you waste your tracker so early? You're better than that, Reck.

[Regfan]

Vote Count 4.2:

xRECKONERx (2): Thor665, Grimmjow.
Thor665 (1): Yates.
Furcolow (1): Seacore.

Not Voting (3):

Force of Nature, xRECKONERx, Furcolow.

Grimmjow is V/LA, Force of Nature and Furcolow have been prodded.

With 7 alive it takes 4 to lynch. The deadline is in (expired on 2011-12-06 21:50:00)

[xRECKONERx]

Crumbs?

And weren't you all over Sleepy Day 2 for the lynch?

Nope. I never breadcrumb, though.

Yes, I was all over Sleepy. He was honestly the best lynch and a no result on a track doesn't clear someone. It would've been easier if I had a result, but... my role was probably severely underpowered due to setup.

@Seacore: I dunno, I wanted to go all macho hardcore rage with a guilty track on someone at the start of D2 and I was so sure Sleepy was scum.

[Grimmjow]

Not buying it.

[xRECKONERx]

Woo fuck yeah content

[Thor665]

I don't buy it either, personally. It's sloppy play on multiple levels - and you know I've bagged you as scum before when you had a sloppy play fakeclaim.

Could you maybe explain those unvotes and Triangle defenses near the end, when it looks pretty bleeding obvious that you actually don't want to lynch him?

[xRECKONERx]

I will try to get around to that tomorrow. I think I did explain my heistation regarding the VT claim more clearly in the past. Today/tomorrow/whatever it is right now is my anniversary so I won't be doing much mafia

[Yates]

Is it common to have a tracker vs. a cop in a small game like this?

[Thor665]

What do you mean by tracker v. cop?

He's probably not a tracker at all, and if he is he's a scum tracker. Here's the translation of his claim;

"I had an ability that vaguely seems to fit in this setup, but I used the ability poorly, didn't seem to have any relation between my ability info and my pushes in thread, didn't breadcrumb my ability at all, have my ability provide no relevant info to town, oh, and my ability is gone now, so please don't kill me even though I have no worries about needing to fake the ability going forward."

Town is not helped by early tracker shots when tracker is limited.
Scum tracker is helped.
Town is certainly not helped by limited tracker who doesn't breadcrumb who fires early.

[Seacore]

Willingness to vote for Reck

Sorry, I've kept track of the game on my phone, but I like to post as little as possible from it.

So anyway, I'm now on team Reck-lynch. I'm not voting because I really want other people to actually post.

I've also somehow missed Yate's case on Thor, I'll go look for it now.

These people who haven't posted... I understand you people kill and eat turkeys at this time of year, but there's really been a deafening silence since Reck was established as prime wagon. I think if Reck flips town, we'll probably find the scum team in those who haven't weighed in yet.

If Reck does flip town tracker, I'm going to be screaming more and more for Furc's lynch too, I don't see cop and tracker in a set up this small.

[Force of Nature]

2 shot tracker + neighborizer + doctor + miller isn't enough / doesn't make sense.
I'm not sure whether adding a cop or something to that is too much.
If somebody else claims 2 shot watcher or such then the two of them are town and we lynch furc.
I think massclaim sounds pretty good here.

[Seacore]

I'm pro massclaim

I think we find scum with it either way, whether that be reck or furc

[Thor665]

I'll support massclaim if either of you could explain to me how Reck's claim looks legit in any way to the point it's not basically a scum confirmation.
He was a limited tracker, who fired early, who didn't breadcrumb.
::headdesk::