/Invitational 11: Pick your Poison 5 (Game Over)

[DrippingGoofball]

DEAD TOWNIES

Hoopla

Amished

populartajo

Elmo

Herodotus

zoraster

Confirmed TOWNIES

Kmd4390

I'll break with tradition and I won't put myself in green, so that you can continue with the analysis after I'm dead, just "quote" cut-and-paste in Notepad and search and replace to change the colors.

Hoopla

(8) -- Papa Zito,

Amished

, mith, ekiM, VasudeVa,

Elmo

, Plumegranate, SpyreX
VasudeVa (3) --

populartajo

, ooba,

Herodotus

zoraster

(2) -- DrippingGoofball,

Kmd4390

Papa Zito (2) -- Zorblag, Rhinox

Herodotus

(1) --

Hoopla

Kmd4390

(1) -- Ellibereth
DrippingGoofball (1) --

zoraster

One scum in (20% chance, 2 points):
Papa Zito, mith, ekiM, VasudeVa, Plumegranate, SpyreX

Hoopla

(7) -- Papa Zito,

Amished

, mith, ekiM, VasudeVa,

Elmo

, Plumegranate
VasudeVa (5) --

populartajo

,

Herodotus

, Seraphim, SpyreX, DrippingGoofball

zoraster

(2) --

Kmd4390

, ooba
Papa Zito (2) -- Zorblag, Rhinox

Herodotus

(1) --

Hoopla

Kmd4390

(1) -- Ellibereth
DrippingGoofball (1) --

zoraster

One scum in (33% chance, 3 points):
Seraphim, SpyreX, DrippingGoofball

Hoopla

(5) -- Papa Zito,

Amished

, mith, Plumegranate,

Elmo

VasudeVa (4) --

populartajo

,

Herodotus

, Seraphim, SpyreX

zoraster

(5) --

Kmd4390

, ooba, ekiM, DrippingGoofball, VasudeVa
Papa Zito (2) -- Zorblag, Rhinox

Herodotus

(1) --

Hoopla

Kmd4390

(1) -- Ellibereth
DrippingGoofball (1) --

zoraster

one scum in (20% chance, 2 points):
ooba, ekiM, DrippingGoofball, VasudeVa

Hoopla

(11) -- Papa Zito,

Amished

, mith, Plumegranate,

Elmo

, Seraphim, DrippingGoofball, Rhinox,

Kmd4390

, SpyreX,

Hoopla

VasudeVa (1) --

populartajo

zoraster

(2) -- ooba, VasudeVa
Papa Zito (1) -- Zorblag

Kmd4390

(2) --

Herodotus

, ekiM
DrippingGoofball (1) --

zoraster

Two scums in (28% chance, 3 points)
Papa Zito, mith, Plumegranate, Seraphim, DrippingGoofball, Rhinox, SpyreX,

ekiM (1) -- Ellibereth
VasudeVa (3) -- Seraphim, ooba, SpyreX
ooba (6) -- Papa Zito, VasudeVa, Plumegranate, Rhinox,

Kmd4390

, ekiM
DrippingGoofball (1) -- mith
Seraphim (1) -- SaintKerrigan

1.5 scum in (30% chance, 3 points):
Papa Zito, VasudeVa, Plumegranate, Rhinox, ekiM

VasudeVa (5) -- Seraphim, ooba, SpyreX, AdumbroDeus,

Kmd4390

ooba (1) -- Papa Zito
DrippingGoofball (2) --

Elmo

,

zoraster

Seraphim (1) -- My Milked Eek

zoraster

(5) -- DrippingGoofball, ekiM, Plumegranate, Rhinox, mith
Papa Zito (1) --

Herodotus

mith (1) -- VasudeVa

One scum in (15% chance, 2.5 points):
Seraphim, ooba, SpyreX, AdumbroDeus,

VasudeVa (2) -- ooba, AdumbroDeus
ooba (1) -- iamausername
DrippingGoofball (1) --

zoraster

Seraphim (1) -- My Milked Eek

zoraster

(9) -- ekiM, Plumegranate, Rhinox, SpyreX, DrippingGoofball,

Kmd4390

,

Elmo

, mith,

Herodotus

mith (1) -- VasudeVa

2 scums in (33% chance, 3 points)
ekiM, Plumegranate, Rhinox, SpyreX, DrippingGoofball, mith

TOTALS:

14 PlumPom 2 3 3 3 3
13.5 Spy 2 3 3 2.5 3
11 DGB 2.5 3 2.5 3
9 Rhinox 3 3 3
8.5 Mike 2.5 3 3
8 mith 2 3 3
8 Seraph 3 2.5 2.5
8 PZ 2 3 3
7 KMD 2 2.5 2.5
5.5 VV 3 2.5
5 oo 2.5 2.5
2.5 Troll/Adumbro 2.5 (anomalous, Troll lurking)

[Patrick]

Votecount

mith (3) -- Kmd4390, Seraphim, My Milked Eek
VasudeVa (1) -- SpyreX
SpyreX (1) -- VasudeVa
DrippinngGoofball (3) -- mith, Plumegranate, iamausername

Not voting: ooba, Ellibereth, Rhinox, DrippingGoofball, ekiM, AdumbroDeus
14 alive, 8 to lynch.

Deadline: 28th of September, 9:20 pm, GMT.

[DrippingGoofball]

You can kill me now, I've done my work.

I'm calling the scum team right now.

PlumPom

SpyreX

I know I'm town
I have a town-boner for Rhinox

Mike

/mith/

PZ

(out of these three, PZ and Mike are the sketchiest, mith &I are different animals but I think he's the towniest of the three).

I'm not seeing any collective will at all to lynch any of the top contenders in my wagon analysis so I think the scum has us completely snowed.

[DrippingGoofball]

Votecount

mith (3) -- Kmd4390, Seraphim, My Milked Eek
VasudeVa (1) -- SpyreX
SpyreX (1) -- VasudeVa

DrippinngGoofball (3) -- mith, Plumegranate, iamausername

Not voting: ooba, Ellibereth, Rhinox, DrippingGoofball, ekiM, AdumbroDeus
14 alive, 8 to lynch.

Deadline: 28th of September, 9:20 pm, GMT.

Umph, for some reason I thought I had more votes than that... sorry, been distracted by RL and mafia commitments are a little burdensome at the moment.

Anyhoo, it's a little weak, but lo and behold, PlumPom is on my wagon.

[Ellibereth]

/NOTE THE EKIM, PLUMEN OVERLAP WITH TAJO SUSPICIONS.
Well mainly Ekim, he just passing mentioned Plumen, but still.

Tired more later.

[mith]

Ellibereth: Have you played with DGB before? (If so, could you link some examples?)

DGB: Playing to my vanity? This is the second time you've said you would have killed me (the first being in conjunction with the possible slip on the tajo kill), and I didn't find it persuasive the first time. Care to elaborate? (Or, and I know this is a crazy idea, respond to any of the various accusations pointing at you?)

[DrippingGoofball]

To have a wordy player like you biting at my heels all the time is pretty annoying, because I'm not big on wall-of-text arguments and semantic minutiae (source:

my body of work since I joined the site

), and I really don't fancy getting into this sort of nit-picky arguments, it's too much effort for my fluttering brains, and I'm guaranteed to lose - even if I'm right.

The various accusations are a nebulous bunch of things related to changing my mind (something I do every half-second, so if that's disrupting the game, just go ahead and lynch me). The slip thing is stupid. I've been pursued for slips a million times (wrong every time), I pursued players on slips a million times (wrong every time), so I really don't care for slips.

I'm kinda resigned, my lynch has been on top of the agenda since day 1, so the scum isn't going to NK me now, and I have to admit I wouldn't mind being the lynch because it would be convenient for me right now.

Saying that if I were scum I would have killed you already isn't playing to your vanity - people that have been scum with me previously, know that the players I choose to kill are the players that are too much of a threat. When they argue that the town will be suspicious, I always tell them that no one ever examines the reasons why a player has been NK'd on MS, it's a kind of taboo, you get lynched for even bringing it up. So just NK your enemies with impunity. Anyhoo, this large paragraph is a large pill of WIFOM to swallow, so let's leave it at that.

[Ellibereth]

uh, yeah, loads of time.
wait a sec.

[Ellibereth]

here's one: http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 56&t=13942
I think there are like 10 more or something.

[mith]

To be more specific: Have you played in a game in which DGB has posted a wagon analysis like the one above (for preference, one in which you were town; but if you've got both, even better)?

[Ellibereth]

Yeah....like every game I remember...we've worked on a few together.

[Ellibereth]

http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=12929
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=12821
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=13011
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=13460
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=13271
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=13942
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=14015
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 56&t=13825

I think that's every complete game we've been in together? Too lazy to parse right now.

[Ellibereth]

Ugh wait some of those are hydras. Whatever.

[Ellibereth]

Anyway, why the whole thing?

[Plumegranate]

Stepping outside the game for a moment...

Kmd, in all sincerity I hope that when my alignment is revealed as pro-town - whether that happens at the end of today, or on a later night or day, or at the end of the game - you resist the urge to brush this fiasco off as a "oops, guess I was wrong, my bad, teehee" moment and seize the opportunity to take a good hard introspective look at your play and your logical reasoning skills (or lack thereof).

We all make mistakes, in Mafia and elsewhere. Everyone gets bad reads. It happens (a lot), and it's ok. What's not ok is for you to get the tunnel fever like a newbie, despite multiple third parties telling you your case is rubbish; determination in the face of reasoning isn't a badge of honor, it's just stupidity. What's not ok is for you to decide that you've "got enough of a feel" and don't need to share your thoughts on the other players, or ask insightful questions, or otherwise contribute to the game beyond your pathetic tunnel and an acknowledgement that you might have to move your vote at deadline. That's not... [actually, I don't know what "good" thing you could think the position you've taken in 1284 represents, but whatever it is, stick it here], it's just bad play.[/patronising tone]

Now that I'm finished talking down to Kmd, can we get on with lynching DGB?

Mith is town.

What do you think of his reads?

[iamausername]

I'm calling the scum team right now.

PlumPom

SpyreX

I know I'm town
I have a town-boner for Rhinox

Mike

/mith/

PZ

(out of these three, PZ and Mike are the sketchiest, mith &I are different animals but I think he's the towniest of the three).

TOTALS:

14 PlumPom 2 3 3 3 3
13.5 Spy 2 3 3 2.5 3
11 DGB 2.5 3 2.5 3
9 Rhinox 3 3 3
8.5 Mike 2.5 3 3
8 mith 2 3 3

8 Seraph 3 2.5 2.5

8 PZ 2 3 3
7 KMD 2 2.5 2.5
5.5 VV 3 2.5
5 oo 2.5 2.5
2.5 Troll/Adumbro 2.5 (anomalous, Troll lurking)

?

[VasudeVa]

DGB feels real Town to me. I'm not sure what I think of mith. Spy is still scum. I don't see any attempt of genuine scumhunting from him as of late. His case on me is lazy. I think he just voted because he didn't like my playstyle which is kinda silly for Spytown.

[SpyreX]

I'm not voting you for 'your playstyle' BUT FEEL MY SHOCK AND AWE THAT YOU WOULD SAY THAT.

I mean, seriously. You've been the most reflective player here and the fact that you've been actually ALLOWED to go "ohh its my playstyle" or "lol I'm scummy" and that's fine makes my teeth itch and, AGAIN, I'll sit here and try to do this and fail. Its a fun game.

That said, while I'm not sold on DGB scum (although VV calling her 'real town' and her saying Rhinox is town are :bonk:) and I <3 some votecounts there's obviously a wire crossed when you're your 3rd highest.

Who are we missing? It feels like prod time again.

[mith]

DGB: The first bit isn't really alignment relevant for either of us, but I can empathise; to have an illogical player like Kmd biting at my heels all the time is pretty annoying, too.

Changing your mind a lot is probably a null-tell (maybe even a slight town-tell). It's

how

you've changed your mind that bugs me, including the lack of a coherent justification for some of those changes (e.g., agreeing with Kmd despite a clear lack of understanding as to what Kmd's case actually is strikes me as more likely to come from opportunistic scum than town trying to figure out whether I'm scummy or not).

Curious - Can you point to any examples of you being "resigned" as town? As scum?

---

Ellibereth: I was curious about 1304; if you had never played with DGB before, or if you had and had been dismissive of her particular brand of wagon analysis, it's an odd post to make. (It's still a little odd, actually, in that ekiM is middle-of-the-pack of DGB's list, and Plumegranate were "passing mentioned" by tajo; but a history of collaborating with DGB's analysis leads me to believe you at least thought you saw something interesting in that.)

VasudeVa: Why does DGB feel town to you? I can tell from your earlier posts in the game that you are capable of something more "substantial" than what you are giving at the moment.

SpyreX: Can you summarize your case on VasudeVa? (Preferably in a readable form that doesn't involve excessive use of the shift key?)

I won't be posting again today, and I'm not sure whether I'll have time tomorrow at all. Back home Tuesday night.

[DrippingGoofball]

To be an "illogical" player with a '"logical" player henpecking is probably just as irritating as being a "logical" player with an "illogical" player henpecking. This being said I don't consider KMD to be illogical at all, just taking your point of view here.

Curious - Can you point to any examples of you being "resigned" as town? As scum?

I'm not sure if it's even relevant here because I forget this game, and don't recall even the alignment I had, but I do have this quote from cicero in my Wiki:

cicero: "And because DGB is normally ridiculously hungry to scumhunt and push for info and basically act like a kinetic dervish as town, I found her gum chewing giving up routine to be a possible strong scum tell."

Have a ball looking it up if you care...

It's kinda of ridiculous to look towards a behavioral precedent for confirmation of alignment but hey. Whatever rocks your boat.

I'm not "resigned" as much as being rational here. Lynching scum would be better of course, but my credibility has been gnawed at from my first post onward, with only 2-3 players believing me to be town (and these 2-3 players have had their credibility attacked as well), so my scum hunting (ex, my wagon analysis) is pretty much a waste of time (not to mention how the players that came up have had NO credibility issue of their own). I still like to do it to assess its continued effectiveness at catching scum.

If you lynch me, you'll see I'm town, and maybe then you'll give credence to my wagon analysis.

Let's face it; I am CONVINCED that at least two of PlumPom/Spyrex/Mike/Papa-Zito are scum. Have any of these players received more than the tiniest smattering of suspicion? They are among the LEAST suspicious players on the roster. So here I am, "public enemy #1", I'm not going to convince anyone that these players are scum, except posthumously. Right? Right......

[Ellibereth]

DGB did you leave out Sera sans 1315 or was it on purpose.

[DrippingGoofball]

DGB did you leave out Sera sans 1315 or was it on purpose.

I'm not sure what you're referring to...

[DrippingGoofball]

Oh I see... that's a clerical error.

Mike/mith/PZ

should indeed read:

Mike/mith/PZ/Seraphim

[Ellibereth]

Still be up for this.

Vote: ekiM

I have town reads on Iam(pz), sera and mith anyway..

[DrippingGoofball]

ah, yeah, PZ is now iamausername.

Personally I'd rather lynch higher up on the wagon totem pole than Mike, but maybe the best would be to iso PlumPom/Spy/Mike/Seraph. I have town reads on mith and IAUN.

I may do it later tonight. Anyone can feel free to beat me to it, though.