Mini 1412: 0 Percent Flavor Mafia Finis

[Mehdi2277]

Current VC 3.3

Alduskkel: qwints, Norlkaz, Yates, MonkeyMan576, The Central Scrutinizer [L-0]
MonkeyMan576: theaceofspades [L-4]

Not Voting: Matt-Shadowlord, Alduskkel

With 8 alive it will take 5 votes to Lynch.
Deadline is on February, 12th. That is in (expired on 2013-02-12 21:22:00)

A lynch has been reached. Alduskkel was the lynchee. He was a

Vanilla Townie.

Night 3 starts now. It will last 48 hours and the thread will be opened either near that time or that evening (depends when I get home). All night actions are due in the 48 hours and night ends February 6th in (expired on 2013-02-06 17:36:00)

[Mehdi2277]

theaceofspades was killed. He was an

Odd Night Vigilante.

Day 4 Start

Current VC 4.1

Not Voting: Norlkaz, MonkeyMan576, qwints, Matt-Shadowlord, The Central Scrutinizer, Yates

With 6 alive it will take 4 votes to Lynch.
Deadline is on February, 16th. That is in (expired on 2013-02-16 17:41:00)

Note: If you have any game questions to ask me starting tomorrow, instead ask them to Richard. I'll be gone from Thursday-Saturday Night so he'll cover this over that time period.

[Norlkaz]

That was an awfully fast lynch, and I'd have liked to do my reread, but my vote was on it and I can't say I'd necessarily have made a different move.
Ald / TaoS town do explain why I was alive yesterday.
This is mylo, but the odds of a protective role are high enough we may as well lynch.
TCS' Hammer was rather poor. In fact, the last 3 votes on that wagon chained together like scum thought they were ending the game.
I'm pretty sure Yates is never to be lynched and that we're lynching Monkey today, but I'll reread everyone.

[The Central Scrutinizer]

This is what I fucking hate about vanillas not playing to their win con.

Now that we know the specifics of TAOS's role, I doubt there's a protective role.

[Norlkaz]

PASS #1:
Me - Confirmed town.
Matt - Looks like a scumbag.
Monkey - Actually not that bad.
Qwints - meh, started strong but not so good D2
TCS - Not particularly bad. ~Monkey level
Yates - Yates gets to win if he is scum. I consider him day-confirmed town.

If we all ignore Yates and don't respond to him will he go away?

I've tried, nope.

Seriously guys... I am a human person. With like... feelings and stuff. You are making me sad.

At his point I would settle for seeing ANY case on ANYBODY that isn't being driven by me.

FOS: Norlkaz

Yeah. You should get back on that wagon, Norlkaz. Monkey is absolutely right. And that is coming from *ME*

Monkey seems to be afflicted with the derp, but that has nothing to do with his alignment.

He is and you're right. There's only one reason I'm voting him right now - perceived mod confirmation. I'm leaving it at that.

if pushing a wagon on MM goes wrong it could seriously hurt your own survival chances tomorrow.

Understood. I'm at least as sure of this as I was of L.

The fact that Ald hasn't actually posted anything of value is making me consider just saying SCREW IT HE MUST DIE

Agreed. His laziness buys him a pass to tomorrow where he will contribute or be hanged.

We now know scum had daytalk.

Wait. How do we know this?

I'll do another pass later though.
It's time to solve the whole game; with 2/4 assuming yatestown I can think through each combo.
TCS, we probably have a 3rd PR. Something protective, maybe not a full doctor, makes sense with the 2 PRs flipped so far.

[Matt-Shadowlord]

I'm not thrilled about the lynch of Alduskkel. Most of the blame for that goes to him, I mean for crying out loud COME ON what was he doing?

But why the quick lynch? We have all 5 people who voted against him still alive, so can you please let me know what the rush was for?
Even through all the frustration with his play style, there was still a discussion worth having: Mainly that if he was mafia wouldn't they have cooked up a post for him, sent it to his PM or whatever chat they use, and had him post it just to help keep him in the game?

Norlkaz - I'll grant you the (probably) 'confirmed town' part, since you were all over the only mafia we've lynched. I expect I'll look a lot more town to you when you re-read the Human Destroyer lynch. But I can't agree with this:

It's time to solve the whole game; with 2/4 assuming yatestown I can think through each combo.

I'm not with you on Yates. I've had to downgrade him. It's not just the extremely late joining in the only successful mafia lynch (after asking someone if they were a cop) and being a quick second to the Alduskkel vote.
It was that it seems really far outside the play-style of someone who is so active, has played so many games and built so many cases in this one not to look up what a Mafia Encryptor is in the long gap while we wait for the game to restart ("We now know scum had daytalk." "Wait. How do we know this?" http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 2#p4693332 ).
And if Monkey is mafia as Yates has so frequently insisted, why the heck is AOTS pushing up daisies instead of Yates.

So is he Mafia? I don't know. We have 9 days to decide. But I'm definitely not going to restrict myself to looking at permutations of the mafia team that exclude Yates.

[Matt-Shadowlord]

First, here's the page about Encryptor. Key thing to note is that it's existence probably means that only 2 of the assumed 3 mafia players could day talk, so they didn't have full day chat and for what it's worth the remaining 2 probably won't be able to confer during the day.

Encryptor
An Encryptor is a role that allows people who can converse with it to talk during the Day phase. Otherwise, they are restricted to speaking during the Night phase.
While theoretically this role can be used for Masons and the like, in practice this role is Mafia-aligned and allows the Mafia to daytalk.

Use and Power
Encryptor is a difficult role to quantify the power of. It effectively amplifies the existing coordination skill of the people talking - people who already had no synergy won't get anything out of daytalk; people who are skilled at manipulating the Day game will find it a massive power boost. With that in mind, Encryptor is a potentially large buff to a scumteam - contingent on the scumteam's skill.

Note that including an Encryptor in a Mafia faction that has two members is equivalent to simply giving the faction daytalk outright.

Second, a player like Yates not knowing what a role of a flipped mafia was and not looking it up is at least as big a red flag as the one that kicked off all that drama against MM way back at the start of the game.

Unvote

@havingfitz - Isn't scumchat usually limited to either all the time or night only? If day has started I don't know how they could be "extending their chat."

With a join date of November 7, 2008 - why are you pretending you don't know that scum get to chat prior to the start of the day?

Vote: MonkeyMan576

Out of RVS - scum found.

Phrased as a question - Yates, did it really not occur to you to look up the power of the mafia player who had flipped?

[MonkeyMan576]

I dont know how Yates is still alive.

Matt could be scum..looking back, the nonvote of L is suspicious.

Central is also 0-3 voting.

vote yates

[Norlkaz]

First, here's the page about Encryptor. Key thing to note is that it's existence probably means that only 2 of the assumed 3 mafia players could day talk, so they didn't have full day chat and for what it's worth the remaining 2 probably won't be able to confer during the day.

If you are actually scum, this took some impressive skill to cook up.

[Matt-Shadowlord]

Matt could be scum..looking back, the nonvote of L is suspicious.
Central is also 0-3 voting.

You can get into an endless WIFOM loop if you start viewing not voting against Townies as suspicious, but the simple fact is I held a vote against Mafia player HD through thick and thin, but haven't been part of a lynch of a townie yet. That's 1-0 vs Central's 0-3, for example.

The thing is, I have a theory that lynches of Townies can sometimes go faster than lynches against Scum. Hence L's lynch being suspciously accelerated when some of us wanting answers from her, let alone the sprint that was Alduskkel's lynch yesterday.
I am against quick lynches to the degree that when it started speeding up against my own top target (Human Destroyer) I unvoted so I could have a last moment check before it was hammered. http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 7#p4687687
So Alduskel played shockingly badly for a townie and I wish he'd dropped out. But his lynch was overly fast, and 2 of the 5 on it were mafia.

[Matt-Shadowlord]

Come to think of it, I very rapidly came too the conclusion that HD's Role Claim and story were completely unconvincing and he needed hammering, as you can see here http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 6#p4687746 but in between the two posts came one from Central.

In post 1228, Human Destroyer wrote:*sigh*
I was hoping it wouldn't come to this before I got more results but I'm the Town Cop, and havingfitz is town.

It's 10 to one against this statement being true, but for due diligence I'd like to take a few minutes to check HD - HF interaction before the hammer comes down
UNVOTE: Human Destroyer

Take your time; I'm doing the same.

I don't believe him, but without a counter-claim I'm going to at least do a re-read.

How does that look, considering Central is 0-3?

[Yates]

Phrased as a question - Yates, did it really not occur to you to look up the power of the mafia player who had flipped?

Phrased as a direct quote of my post from yesterday:

I've never been in a game with an Encryptor before. Feel free to check my meta.

I was planning on looking the role up

after my post

- where I obviously would have answered my own question.

Which is significantly different from:

@ Yates how unlikely is it that he'd be unaware of the scumchat timing rules?

Zero percent chance.

I present to you the only evidence you need:

Wherein Monkey is scum ->
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 9#p4503839

Wherein Monkey is scum that spoke prior to game start -> http://www.quicktopic.com/48/H/9exnfGLfxab

Prosecution rests.

Find a game I was in with an Encrypter and I will self-vote. Obviously that's a hollow threat because I haven't. It's not a common role. I don;t even remember reading a game with an encrypter in it. Monkey, on the other hand, had *just* come out of a game AS scum WITH chat IN predawn. Your attempt at making my statement look anything like Monkey's is foolish and cheap.

And if Monkey is mafia as Yates has so frequently insisted, why the heck is AOTS pushing up daisies instead of Yates.

To create wifom arguments like the one you just asked.
Also, because you still think you can get a Yates mislynch based on my wagon size from Day 1.
Also, also, because scum is assuming I'm not a PR based on my play.

So unless you are scum, get your head out of your ass.

[Yates]

We have all 5 people who voted against him still alive, so can you please let me know what the rush was for?

I was on the lynch for additional pressure after he came in with a bs response to ONE vote for pressure. Can't speak for anyone else.

[Yates]

And if Monkey is mafia as Yates has so frequently insisted, why the heck is AOTS pushing up daisies instead of Yates.

Just another thought on this... and I know it's WAAAAY out there...

VOTE: Monkey Man

Opportunistic voting.

TAOS was on to Monkey.

[MonkeyMan576]

And if Monkey is mafia as Yates has so frequently insisted, why the heck is AOTS pushing up daisies instead of Yates.

Just another thought on this... and I know it's WAAAAY out there...

VOTE: Monkey Man

Opportunistic voting.

TAOS was on to Monkey.

TAOS also brought up what HD brought up, that Slandaar's town flip strongly implicates you.

SO unless it's a very clever gambit. Slandaar and Yates cannot both be scum. And right now Yates reads more scummy to me. So my vote stays there

Yates are you HD's buddy?

TAOS was misguided about my vote on you, I've been pretty consistant and there's nothing opportunistic about my voting.

[Matt-Shadowlord]

So unless you are scum, get your head out of your ass.

No need to be so defensive. We're almost at Lylo, so everyone is due a grilling. That includes you, that includes me, that includes everyone.
I started with you because of this profound statement from Norlkaz "Yates gets to win if he is scum. I consider him day-confirmed town."
Norlkaz as day confirmed, I can buy. The rest of us? Forget it

[MonkeyMan576]

*HD's scum flip brought up.

With two scum likely remaining I think it's highly probable that either Yates or Central is scum, or both.

[MonkeyMan576]

I find it REAAAAAALLLLLY bad that Yates is 0-3 voting and is acting like Matt's question is invalid.

[Matt-Shadowlord]

In post 1306, Matt-Shadowlord wrote:Phrased as a question - Yates, did it really not occur to you to look up the power of the mafia player who had flipped?
Phrased as a direct quote of my post from yesterday:
In post 1281, Yates wrote:I've never been in a game with an Encryptor before. Feel free to check my meta. I was planning on looking the role up after my post - where I obviously would have answered my own question.

... Your attempt at making my statement look anything like Monkey's is foolish and cheap.

I do believe you've never been in a game with an Encryptor before. I believe you'd check before saying that. That means the two most likely explanations are
A) It didn't occur to you to look up the Encryptor power in the time between his flip and your post OR
B) You wanted to appear not to know about Mafia communication to make yourself appear more Town
Those are both plausible, and B is extremely similar to what you accused Monkey of.

[The Central Scrutinizer]

So unless you are scum, get your head out of your ass.

No need to be so defensive. We're almost at Lylo, so everyone is due a grilling. That includes you, that includes me, that includes everyone.
I started with you because of this profound statement from Norlkaz "Yates gets to win if he is scum. I consider him day-confirmed town."
Norlkaz as day confirmed, I can buy. The rest of us? Forget it

Why is Norlkaz day confirmed? You could make a pretty strong case that he's been buddying me, qwints, and Yates pretty hard. His vote on HD could have easily been bussing. Did I miss something, or do you just think he's very towny?

[Matt-Shadowlord]

Norlkaz thinks he is confirmed town due to his leading the HD lynch.

Me - Confirmed town.

I'm willing to go as far as probably confirmed town.

Norlkaz - I'll grant you the (probably) 'confirmed town' part, since you were all over the only mafia we've lynched.

[Yates]

B is extremely similar to what you accused Monkey of.

No, if you think B is is the answer, that is

exactly

what I accused Monkey of. And that is dumb. The last thing I'm going to do is point out the tactic I'm about to use 3 days later to make myself APPEAR Town so I can sit here and answer these sorts of nonsense questions.

VOTE: MonkeyMan

I'm not moving from here.

[MonkeyMan576]

Okay, that's not OMGUSy, reactive, and survivalist.

Your schtick of accusing any argument against you of being stupid is getting a bit tiring.

[Yates]

Okay, that's not OMGUSy, reactive, and survivalist.

I agree. It's not. You think because you woke up in the morning and mindlessly placed your vote on me first somehow wipes away 3 days of suspicion on you? Let me buy you dinner. Eat some rope.

[The Central Scrutinizer]

So on a scale of one to certain, how probable is it that Yates and MM are pulling of the greatest distancing act in the history of MS?