Mini 1122: Mafia.Exe Game Over

[DeathRowKitty]

Day 1 is as good a day to make scum fold as any other. As for the whole votes vs. questions thing, votes are what allow questions or cases to mean anything. I could question Nathanael all I want and even make a case on him, but if no one is willing to vote him, all of it amounts to a small annoyance for him.

[Neruz]

I've never seen scum fold on Day 1 from anything less than a heated wagon on their face.

The purpose of the questions is to find cracks in the person's responses, scummy things you can point at and build a nice shiny case to convince people like me that you're right.

I'll be glad to vote Nath, if you can convince me he's scum.

[GreyICE]

I've never seen scum fold on Day 1 from anything less than a heated wagon on their face.

The purpose of the questions is to find cracks in the person's responses, scummy things you can point at and build a nice shiny case to convince people like me that you're right.

I'll be glad to vote Nath, if you can convince me he's scum.

I've watched scum fold day 1 from the suggestion that there might be a day cop. Panic can set in quite quickly.

And cases are frequently bullshit. You're as likely to catch scum from one post as you are from a big shiny case.

[Nathanael]

I think voting no-lynch in RVS is a

slightly

scummy move. why? because assume everybody would do it. what would happen? apart from ending the day without lynching, even if the day did in fact go on, we would get absolutely no information from any vote and would never get out of RVS.

So what's the point of lynching him? Say I propose a massclaim only if everyone is in agreement with it. Would you vote me then?

the point is that a vote for something is better than a vote for nothing.
could you please restate your point on the massclaim thing? I am not getting it.

I had seen DRK's brainfuck program a while ago (while reading some other thread I think) and had (since I hadn't anything to do at that moment) tried to find out what it does. I saw that it spelled out "Ribbit" and was a little perplexed. then I forgot about it.
I didn't notice his sig at first, but then thought RVS would be a good opportunity to ask him about his brainfuck-thing.

But we were out of RVS, and you could've just asked him. Not to mention, the lack of content makes me meh at this.

yes, but I was so obsessed by that that I didn't think about it.

What did you want me to say exactly? "Nooooo, please don't vote me!!!" or something like that?

Overeaction=/=Response. I dunno about you, but when someone votes someone and is being serious and gives no information, I'd be a bit skeptical.

There are tons of reasonless votes thrown around early in the game. I usually tend to ignore them until there is some kind of argument backing them up.

____

DRK, how can you be so sure Neruz is town? especially considering this post of yours.

[GreyICE]

Neruz is at least offering helpful speculation and posting. Post #129 was really useful.

I've always been of the opinion that you should never lynch someone who is useful and scumhunting day 1 unless they massively scumslip or something. It's always nice to lynch someone whose scummy and mostly posted useless garbage, because if you do hit a townie at least you don't lose much.

I am serious about that, btw. And bgg is still my vote.

By the way, I'd like some reads or something out of you. Quote walls =/= content

[DeathRowKitty]

I don't recall ever calling Neruz town (and you linked the wrong thing anyway)

[Nathanael]

I don't recall ever calling Neruz town (and you linked the wrong thing anyway)

well, you keep buddying up to him like you knew for sure he is town.
faillink. I wanted to link this post.


_____________________________

scum: Xine
scummy: DeathRowKitty, Surprise_Carcinogen
null: Greedling, [Redacted], My Milked Eek, Ant_to_the_max, Llamarble, Neruz
townish: GreyICE, Hiraki
town: bgg1996

[DeathRowKitty]

I like your OMGUS there

So tell me, why wouldn't I direct that post to someone I wasn't sure was town?

[Ant_to_the_max]

And on the gripping hand, Surprise_Carcinogen, My Milked Eek and Ant_to_the_max have all dived into lurker mode. Ant hasn't posted since the 13th.

Again, I am really sorry. My Mondays and Thursdays are really busy. Plus an upcoming MAT 371 test is not helping things

My initial reactions on the BGG Incident:
I am inclined to believe him. He does have one game from this site forever ago where he was very noobish and not spectacular at all. As he then stated, he played on a inexperienced place where every role had a power. Obviously changing back here would be quite a switch. And for him not knowing if there were special roles in this game, there was no setup given in the beginning of this game like they do in the newbie games. Sounds solid enough for me.
*shrugs*

I'm liking bgg for a lynch. Not only is claiming VT D1 unproductive for town, it also means that if we DON'T lynch him, mafia likely will, since if he's town, his death would give us nothing to go on. Either way, for the moment, his lynch is the only one that I can say with any certainty I think will provide useful information for town.

THAT! IS! HORRIBLE! LOGIC! RIGHT! THERE!
*red flag thrown up*
I have to admit that it is pretty scummy. What GreyICE brought up though makes sense. I know how much it sucks leaving someone like that alive, but then again, I don't think it might be in the towns best interest to cut him off just yet. If we lynch him now, that would be a very bad thing for the town.
UNVOTE:

I'll ISO some people I have some suspicions on and see if I can build a case on them throughout today.

[Surprise_Carcinogen]

Why exactly would it be a very bad thing for the town to lynch him now? I've heard plenty of reasons why my own reasoning was wrong, which I will grudgingly admit to, but I haven't heard much on the side of benefits to the town to leave him alive.

[Neruz]

I've watched scum fold day 1 from the suggestion that there might be a day cop. Panic can set in quite quickly.

A day cop seems kind of unlikely in a Mini Normal, but then again a claimed day cop with a result on scum applies the same 'about to get lynched' pressure that a powerful bandwagon does, so my point stands.

And cases are frequently bullshit. You're as likely to catch scum from one post as you are from a big shiny case.

I'm not sure how to respond to this, as far as i can tell you've basically just said that there is no point looking for concurrant inconsistancies and errors in a person's play.

I don't recall ever calling Neruz town (and you linked the wrong thing anyway)

well, you keep buddying up to him like you knew for sure he is town.
faillink. I wanted to link this post.

DRK isn't buddying me, I'm conceding that the points he is making are valid and we're having some entertaining banter. Is there something wrong with having fun while playing a game?

If i was buddying DRK, i'd be agreeing with what he said and following his lead, which i am not. Every time two people agree on some points is not buddying.



Ant! Nice to see you, i'll keep the whole Monday\Thursday thing in mind. I would reccomend you at least try and post once every 24 hours, even if the post is "I'm really busy right now so i won't be able to post something useful until tomorrow." At the very least that ensures that we know you

are

there, just not able to respond right now.

I also see Surprise_Carcinogen is back, but My Milked Eek remains AWOL.

Pokity poke My Milked Eek, it's posting time.


Given all that, i shall UNVOTE: Ant_to_the_max and VOTE: Nathanael for reasons that i shall now explain.

Why exactly would it be a very bad thing for the town to lynch him now? I've heard plenty of reasons why my own reasoning was wrong, which I will grudgingly admit to, but I haven't heard much on the side of benefits to the town to leave him alive.

There is actually one perfectly good reason to not lynch bgg right now and that is this post;

I should come up with proof I'm not scum after today.

He has claimed that he will have proof that he is not scum after today. Therefore we should hold off lynching him today even if it is only to see what his proof is tomorrow. If he is unable to provide proof that he is not scum tomorrow then we will have a direct contradiction from him, which is a powerful scum tell.

Thus i shall vote Nathanael. I'm not quite sure he's the best lynch for today, but he's shaping up to be a pretty good one and is definitely better than bgg.

Nathanael's voting pattern concerns me. His first three votes are clearly RVS and should be treated as such, but his fourth vote for Xine came in after RVS was mostly over and was

blatantly

nothing more than hopping on a wagon. I'm also disliking his interactions with Hiraki and later DRK; he doesn't appear to actually be responding to questions posed to him so much as trying to deflect them away and his logic in a couple of answers (such as the reason why he feels voting No Lynch in RVS is scummy) is questionable at best.

He also seems far too attached to Xine being scum. No-one so far has given off anything that can definitively be said is a solid scumtell so far, there is little reason why town would be attached so strongly to one player. This is doubly suspicious because he only started voting Xine for the wagon, yet is now attempting to justify that vote. Vote first, justification later is a very typical scum move as it means that if no-one notices your vote, you don't have to justify it!

The deflections are really concerning me, every time i look at Nathanael's ISO i notice more places where instead of answering a quoted question, he deflected it with a question of his own.

Nathanael:

A question for you. Why,

exactly

, do you believe Xine to be scum? What are your reasons? What posts do you feel show scumtells from Xine and why? Please be specific.

[bgg1996]

You clearly have Nath covered my man; no reason to tunnel on anyone is there :3

But one vote won't make scum crumble and fold.

@Llamarble
I don't see why scum would think that everyone was vanilla. A role PM that says "Your buddies are xxxxx (roleblocker) and yyyyy (godfather) is generally a bit of a giveaway (when's the last time you saw a completely vanilla scum team in a 12+ player mini?). The one point I'll give you is his proof thing, though that depends on what he meant by "today" (I read it as the other meaning of today). As for setup ignorance...I see one way he might have gotten that idea, but I'd rather not make an ass out of you and me.

@bgg
1. Why did you think there were only vanilla roles in this game?
2. How do you plan on proving you're not scum?

1. Inexperience? This would be my first mini-normal. Sorry, but it looks like it'll be my death this round.
2. There is, of course, no definitive proof. No hard evidence. If I do find proof, it will most likely be making it less likely for me to be scum, but still very possible. I was going to come up with some after this phase, but of course if I am about to be lynched, thats another story. Anyway, it seems there won't be much proof this early, if any at all.

Although I'd like to thank all of you for suspecting me. I wanted to last long this day. If you don't kill me, I doubt that the mafia will. They will more likely frame me, or go for a PR, or something.

[Neruz]

Wait, now you're saying you

won't

have proof?

If you cannot prove that you are not scum, why did you say that you could?

[bgg1996]

There is actually one perfectly good reason to not lynch bgg right now and that is this post;

I should come up with proof I'm not scum after today.

He has claimed that he will have proof that he is not scum after today. Therefore we should hold off lynching him today even if it is only to see what his proof is tomorrow. If he is unable to provide proof that he is not scum tomorrow then we will have a direct contradiction from him, which is a powerful scum tell.

Thus i shall vote Nathanael. I'm not quite sure he's the best lynch for today, but he's shaping up to be a pretty good one and is definitely better than bgg.

Although I probably shouldn't say anything yet, as it appears to be the only thing convincing three other people to vote me, I would like to point out before I get killed tomorrow that I cannot definitively prove that I am not scum. I have no way of knowing that 'I will have' proof, but 'I should come up with' some then, if I can.

[bgg1996]

Have fun at my funeral.
I'll let you know now, though, I will be laughing in my grave after the guy that you lynched because he claimed to be VT...
...Turns out to be a VT.

[Hiraki]

Bgg. Why are you being so newb scummy?

[Hiraki]

EBWOP: I want a link to one of your offside games where you were a town role.

[Neruz]

UNVOTE: Nathanael
VOTE: bgg1996

If you cannot do something, do not say that you can. I dislike contradictions.

[bgg1996]

I never said I 'could'. I said I 'should'.
How could I possibly have had hard evidence? I would have to be a cop or something. I think you just said that so that you would have reason to put me at what_ 5 votes? 6?

[Neruz]

Exactly, how could you possibly have hard evidence? So why would you say that you

should

have something you

cannot

have?

I was willing to wait until tomorrow to see this evidence of your non-scumminess, but now that you yourself have admitted that no such evidence or proof will exist, at least not from you, i no longer see a reason to wait.

[Hiraki]

EBWOP: I want a link to one of your offside games where you were a town role.

I'm going to hop on the wagon if you don't supply my demands.

[bgg1996]

Hop on.

[Hiraki]

Hop on.

If you're town after this, I will be

extremely

surprised.

Considering that you can't show something that you claim to have, which I never said I would use against you, I'm going to vote you.

Here's the point about all of this. You're paranoid. If I got a town meta, and it was like this, I would've waited a day before saying you were scum.

However, the reason that you're just not giving me anything to chew off of, I'm not liking it one bit.

Do you have any reasoning why you can't give me any?

[Hiraki]

EBWOP(Yeah I know. I need to think out my posts better this game)

Nathanel. Why is Bgg town?

[Exe]

I'm running out of clever things to say, so I got you all candy. I'm sure you'll find it on your doorstep...eventually...

Vote Count #5

Day 1

bgg1996

(5): Llamarble, GreyICE, Xine, Surprise_Carcinogen, Neruz,

Xine

(3): Nathanael, bgg1996, Greedling,

Nathanael

(2): Hiraki, DeathRowKitty,

DeathRowKitty

(1): My Milked Eek,

Neruz

(1): [Redacted],

Llamarble

(0):

GreyICE

(0):

[Redacted]

(0):

My Milked Eek

(0):

Greedling

(0):

Ant_to_the_max

(0):

Surprise_Carcinogen

(0):

Hiraki

(0):

No Lynch

(0):

Not Voting

: Ant_to_the_max,

With

13

alive it takes

7

to lynch.
Deadline for Day 1 is at 10:00 AM EST on 2/24/11.