California Trilogy: City of Angels - On Camera (Game Over)

[VP Baltar]

Starkiss, what are your thoughts on who is scum since Talilan flipped town. Do you still think hewitt is town?

[StarKiss]

{Kise}

Nothing has been said or done to change my mind about hewitt. Although now that we find out an Innocent was indeed the one deciding placement for those last few scenes, it pretty much does mean that scum had no choice in who went where. We'll have to ask Goof about why they/she didn't fire Tal. Rather than fix myself on previous suspects, I'd like to go through today carefully. The wrong bolded vote is all it takes to lose. As a refresh, all you're holding hewitt's choices/votes against him?

Why were you "sad" about Tal being hammered? (before an alignment flip)

More stuff I want to go over tomorrow. Some of my last questions didn't get a response.

[StarKiss]

holding 'against' hewitt***

[VP Baltar]

As a refresh, all you're holding hewitt's choices/votes against him?

Oh hell no. Look at his play scene 1 where he was against Valentine driving. Look at how he was "suspicious" of KY Krew yet wasn't on the lynch. He was also "suspicious" of Pooky, yet never actually pushed the lynch.

His general attitude this game has been, "whatever" and yet he won't replace. He refused to participate yesterday simply because the lynch was possibly coming his way at one point.

These are all things just off the top of my head.

Why were you "sad" about Tal being hammered? (before an alignment flip)

Because it was pre-emptive. I was still considering switching to you at the end of the day and that hammer stopped me from having the chance to change my mind if I so chose. Plus, iirc, I still had some questions out there that I was waiting on answers to. So yeah, made me sad.

[hewitt]

He refused to participate yesterday simply because the lynch was possibly coming his way at one point.

Uh are you kidding me? I'm the ONLY one who voted Talilan for an actual, sound reasoning. The rest of you bozos hopped onto the opportunistic wagon and did basically nothing but babble stupidly the whole day. So I deserve a thank you for building and actually having a case on Talilan that the rest of you can just be like "oh yeah okay he's innocent so why not".

[VP Baltar]

Yes, that is clearly what happened hewitt.

Still very much fine with your lynch.

[Thesp]

He refused to participate yesterday simply because the lynch was possibly coming his way at one point.

Uh are you kidding me? I'm the ONLY one who voted Talilan for an actual, sound reasoning. The rest of you bozos hopped onto the opportunistic wagon and did basically nothing but babble stupidly the whole day. So I deserve a thank you for building and actually having a case on Talilan that the rest of you can just be like "oh yeah okay he's innocent so why not".

Are you seriously trying to argue that lynching a townie gives you any pro-town cred? Yeesh.

I haven't had the time to go back and review midgame stuff like I'd hoped. The only thing that's keeping me from wanting to lynch StarKiss is the nagging possibility that hewitt and Mighty Orbots are a team, as MO appears to be more likely to be scum than he did prior to the end of yesterday.

In fact, I want to hear a lot from MO, and pretty soon.

[VP Baltar]

I agree with those sentiments Thesp.

I need to put some effort into this game this week and start narrowing down my lynch list. Though I'm still waiting for Thesp to give some thoughts after the claiming, he's probably the least likely person I would like to lynch today.

MO is probably unlikely, but yesterday was weird.

I'm kicking myself for not following through on the lynch Starkiss and hewitt plan. One of them is scum for certain.

[Mighty Orbots]

Hey all, I apologize for not being around. Work has been bad lately and I'm kinda burned out on Mafia in general.

Anyway.

Two of our claims give me the heebie-jeebies. First VP has claimed the sample PM. Then Thesp acts like he has ULTIMATE SECRET KNOWLEDGE and it turns out he's just claiming what KY did.

hewitt, I gave plenty of reasons for why I wanted Talilan dead. Nice try attacking the wagon.

In fact, I want to hear a lot from MO, and pretty soon.

Hear what, Thesp?

[VP Baltar]

MO, you honestly think that if I was scum I would claim the sample PM? My guess is that the role pms don't mean anything and were done intentionally to punish people who lynch by them.

Who do you think is the better lynch out of hewitt and Starkiss today if we go that route?

[Mighty Orbots]

MO, you honestly think that if I was scum I would claim the sample PM?

I have no idea. It's awfully weird is all.

Who do you think is the better lynch out of hewitt and Starkiss today if we go that route?

hewitt is worse, but I won't cry over a Starkiss lynch either. My problem is that while they're both horribly scummy I can't really see them as scum together. I think Thesp is the partner of one of the two.

[Mr. Grey]

Mod Note:

Flavor scenes updated.

[Thesp]

Slap me if you want, but I'm one of the few ppl who haven't seen Dirty Harry. I did see Gran Torino though. Excellent screenplay.

So can you paraphrase your flavor, Thesp?

It involves uncertainty as to a quantity of ammunition, along with a request for self-reflection on one's good fortunes.

Hey all, I apologize for not being around. Work has been bad lately and I'm kinda burned out on Mafia in general.

Anyway.

Two of our claims give me the heebie-jeebies. First VP has claimed the sample PM. Then Thesp acts like he has ULTIMATE SECRET KNOWLEDGE and it turns out he's just claiming what KY did.

How likely do you think it is that someone would have a claim divergent from an actor/flavor?

In fact, I want to hear a lot from MO, and pretty soon.

Hear what, Thesp?

Whatever you're thinking. More than anyone else left in the game, it's not immediately clear to me where you stand. You seem to be taking a variety of potshots at things, not commiting to things, and seeing how the wind blows. You make vague statements and don't seem to support them or put any weight behind them. Heck, take this post I'm quoting as an example. You talk about how the claims seemingly bother you, but you stay away from any considerationa s to whether or not they're more likely to come from scum. Are you disturbed that someone's avoiding positing truse information from their role PMs? Are you disturbed by possible roles distributed by te moderator? It's not clear, and you don't seem to be making it clear.

In particular, you say this:

hewitt is worse, but I won't cry over a Starkiss lynch either. My problem is that while they're both horribly scummy I can't really see them as scum together. I think Thesp is the partner of one of the two.

...which is terribly important to me.

Why aren't they scum together?

I really want to know, because that's the way I'm leaning as a strong possibility. Moreover, you say hewitt and StarKiss are both bad, don't think they're scummy, and don't seem to be a strong proponent of lynching one over the other. (Correct me if I'm wrong, please.) If they're not both scum, then lynching the wrong one is

very bad

. It doesn't seem to bother you that much.

Maybe we're different personalities - endgames energize me. After all, this blasted game has been going on forever, and we're at a pretty crucial lynching point (as was yesterday). It worries me when others don't want to get this right, and the only one I feel convinced is that way is VP Baltar. (VP Baltar, if you're scum, can you please let us know so we can scoop and concede? Seriously, it's just cruel at this point otherwise.)

I keep saying I want to go back and look over midgame, but I haven't had the time, and it's running out on me. If anyone has any special insights from that time, I'd really, really like to hear them. I feel like most of my suspicions are based off of voting patterns onstage and everything since we started onstage, and I feel like I'm missing something.

I also want to analyze the claims and double-check them, but I'm not sure against what. I'm looking over something now, though, I'll report shortly if I find anything interesting. (I doubt I will.)

Condorcet vote forthcoming.

Vote: [hewitt, Mighty Orbots, StarKiss], VP Baltar, [No Lynch, Thesp]

[Thesp]

Nope, it wasn't much of anything - I thought I had a great lead wikipediaing people and finding strong connections to LA with MO and I, and not as much to StarKiss and hewitt, but checking through everyone, several of the early deaths are inconsistent with an "everyone is strongly related to LA" theme (unless I'm missing some connections on people, which is possible, but not an avenue worth spending too much time pursuing).

[VP Baltar]

hewitt is worse, but I won't cry over a Starkiss lynch either. My problem is that while they're both horribly scummy I can't really see them as scum together. I think Thesp is the partner of one of the two.

This makes me cringe badly. Why are you coasting so much here when you know we're in lylo? I don't think Thesp is a good choice for our lynch today since he actually has put pro-town effort into the game.

Unless you're partners with him (which I strongly doubt), one or both of hewitt and Starkiss are scum. It was my bad for not following my instinct yesterday, but I need help getting this right today.

So, I ask you again, which of these two is a better lynch and why?

Maybe we're different personalities - endgames energize me. After all, this blasted game has been going on forever, and we're at a pretty crucial lynching point (as was yesterday). It worries me when others don't want to get this right, and the only one I feel convinced is that way is VP Baltar.

I'm pretty convinced Thesp is town from this. I do think he has been putting in effort in endgame and if he's scum, then he probably deserves to win. I'm putting my official town read on Thesp. I was uncertain before, but it's time to start eliminating suspects and figuring out who to lynch.

Thesp, why hewitt over Starkiss?

[dramonic]

I havent read the last 10 pages or so as I've left Kise to take care of it so I can get over my too many games, but this is a prod avoidance >_<

[VP Baltar]

Perhaps you should post to not get lynched, because that appears to be the road you're headed down.

[Thesp]

Thesp, why hewitt over Starkiss?

I've actually got them listed equally in the Condorcet because I'm not sure, but I must admit part of me wants to lynch hewitt so he doesn't win. I'm pretty distasteful of his endgame hissyfit he's thrown, and I want some real effort in the game. He's either petulant or scum (or both), and I don't really appreciate either. I'm trying to discern if my thoughts on his scumminess aren't clouded by my distaste for how he's thrown up his arms at the end of the game, but at the same time, his behavior was rewarded by a disappearing wagon, and so I think the continuance of his behavior is indicative that he's trying to avoid the spotlight rather than win the game as town.

My inclination is currently hewitt/StarKiss as the pair (with a pang towards MO, but I'm of two minds on him), which is why I really want to hear why Mighty Orbots thinks StarKiss and hewitt aren't scum together.

I also think everyone should request prods on StarKiss (and hewitt), as that last post by StarKiss didn't avoid what a prod intends to elicit, especially if Kise is the one that needs to post.

[VP Baltar]

Yeah, honestly, I think it very much could just be Starkiss/hewitt as the scum team. The only good thing about Talilan's flip is that it guarantees the scum team did not have a choice in who they sent through to endgame.

Like I said earlier, it very much seems to me that Thok and DGB were being groomed for endgame. They had a better voting record than anyone who is alive here now and it very well could have been that their chosen "bad decision enforcers" since the beginning of the game were cornered into end game.

My gut says Starkiss is more likely scum out of the pair, but I don't disagree with your hewitt reasoning Thesp. If hewitt's town, I really don't appreciate his sportsman ship at all. That being said, I could also see this as him taking a page from Adel's scum book and trying to make the game as unfun as possible.

[StarKiss]

{Kise}

Net was out due to the snowstorm. I've only missed half a page here, but many pages elsewhere, so pardon me for attending to my game first. School is out so I can be on here alllll day tomorruh.

[Mighty Orbots]

Sigh.

I had to re-write this twice to take all the cursing out.

How likely do you think it is that someone would have a claim divergent from an actor/flavor?

I'm not sure what you're asking here. Please restate.

Whatever you're thinking. More than anyone else left in the game, it's not immediately clear to me where you stand. You seem to be taking a variety of potshots at things, not commiting to things, and seeing how the wind blows. You make vague statements and don't seem to support them or put any weight behind them.

Wow. So I object to this pretty strongly, as I've done my damnedest to be as open as possible.

I'm pretty sure I laid out that I wanted Talilan dead most of all because I thought they architected our endgame and got a player that I at least considered obv-town quicklynched.

I'm pretty sure I wanted hewitt dead because of his hideous voting record and interactions with our four known scum members.

I'm pretty sure I've listed Starkiss next for being utterly useless all game.

I'm pretty sure I've listed you next for refusing to do any analysis of anything.

they're more likely to come from scum. Are you disturbed that someone's avoiding positing truse information from their role PMs? Are you disturbed by possible roles distributed by te moderator? It's not clear, and you don't seem to be making it clear.

I haven't drawn any conclusions Thesp. But I thought the whole point of a massclaim was to get these things into the open and talk about them.

...which is terribly important to me.

Why aren't they scum together?

I haven't seen any links between the two until yesterday.

I really want to know, because that's the way I'm leaning as a strong possibility.

Tell me why.

Moreover, you say hewitt and StarKiss are both bad, don't think they're scummy, and don't seem to be a strong proponent of lynching one over the other. (Correct me if I'm wrong, please.)

You're wrong. You're horribly horribly wrong.

Maybe we're different personalities - endgames energize me. After all, this blasted game has been going on forever, and we're at a pretty crucial lynching point (as was yesterday). It worries me when others don't want to get this right, and the only one I feel convinced is that way is VP Baltar. (VP Baltar, if you're scum, can you please let us know so we can scoop and concede? Seriously, it's just cruel at this point otherwise.)

Yes I made mention that VP was playing like a townie should.

I'm burned out, Thesp. I need time off. It's hard for me to care much about anything right now.

Vote: [hewitt, Mighty Orbots, StarKiss], VP Baltar, [No Lynch, Thesp]

This is terrible. Who doesn't care which one gets lynched again?

[Thesp]

I had to re-write this twice to take all the cursing out.

I appreciate that, and I apologize if there is something I haven't seen that makes this frustrating for you. Thanks.

How likely do you think it is that someone would have a claim divergent from an actor/flavor?

I'm not sure what you're asking here. Please restate.

You seem uneasy about VP Baltar's claim. How likely do you think someone would have a claim something other than claiming an famous actor's name and appropriate flavor to that actor? (I ask because VP Baltar has claimed something other than a famous actor and appropriate flavor.) Do you think it's more likely scum would make up such a claim (or copy it from the sample PM), or that Mr. Grey would include such in the game?

they're more likely to come from scum. Are you disturbed that someone's avoiding positing truse information from their role PMs? Are you disturbed by possible roles distributed by te moderator? It's not clear, and you don't seem to be making it clear.

I haven't drawn any conclusions Thesp. But I thought the whole point of a massclaim was to get these things into the open and talk about them.

I wanted to see if there was any claim overlap. I also wanted to see if something could be gleaned from my claim, which seems to imply that scum don't ant to claim their actual name, and may not have a safeclaim. I'm not sure that the claims we've gotten have made it easier to suss out any fakes.

I really want to know, because that's the way I'm leaning as a strong possibility.

Tell me why.

Some of what you've alluded to (as have I) - they have terrible voting records, and I haven't seen much that implies they are town. I've seen someconflicted indications from you as being town, and I've seen plenty from VP Baltar. I've seen squat from hewitt, and only glimmers from StarKiss.

Moreover, you say hewitt and StarKiss are both bad, don't think they're scummy, and don't seem to be a strong proponent of lynching one over the other. (Correct me if I'm wrong, please.)

You're wrong. You're horribly horribly wrong.

Who would you prefer to lynch? Perhaps I've overlooked it because I must admit that most of what I've seen recently is the last few pages, because I keep coming in here to see if people have posted and responded to things, and I see so very little from half of the remaining game. (Part of my statement comes across incorrectly - instead of "...don't think they're scummy..." it should read "...don't think they're

scum together

...".) Because of this, reading your posts from today, you seem to be taking potshots at everyone without strongly pushing in one direction. (This could be directly related to burnout, I understand.)

I'm burned out, Thesp. I need time off. It's hard for me to care much about anything right now.

I understand and you have my sympathies. We're right at the finish line - one more push until the end. (Burnout is a partial reason to why I try to limit myself to one game at a time nowadays, so I know how you feel.)

Vote: [hewitt, Mighty Orbots, StarKiss], VP Baltar, [No Lynch, Thesp]

This is terrible. Who doesn't care which one gets lynched again?

I've just been waiting for your reason as to why you don't think hewitt and StarKiss are scum together. Based on this, I don't see a compelling reason, and nothing really to sway me from it.

I'm happy lynching either of StarKiss or hewitt today. I think they're our pair. I will vote for either one to lynch them, and I no longer care about the order.

Vote: [hewitt, StarKiss], Mighty Orbots, VP Baltar, [No Lynch, Thesp]

[Mighty Orbots]

You seem uneasy about VP Baltar's claim. How likely do you think someone would have a claim something other than claiming an famous actor's name and appropriate flavor to that actor? (I ask because VP Baltar has claimed something other than a famous actor and appropriate flavor.) Do you think it's more likely scum would make up such a claim (or copy it from the sample PM), or that Mr. Grey would include such in the game?

I think you're missing what's giving me pause. I've never seen, in a game as heavily themed as this one, a player who was given the sample PM. Does that mean it can't happen? No. But it's odd enough that I felt like it should be noted.

Some of what you've alluded to (as have I) - they have terrible voting records, and I haven't seen much that implies they are town. I've seen someconflicted indications from you as being town, and I've seen plenty from VP Baltar. I've seen squat from hewitt, and only glimmers from StarKiss.

That's not what I meant. I'm asking what makes you think they're scum

together

. I can easily identify what makes them independently scummy, but I see precious little that shows them being part of a scum team.

Who would you prefer to lynch?

Hewitt. He and Starkiss have similar voting records, but I feel hewitt is worse because of his interactions with our flipped scum. To reiterate:

1. KY Krew - He made clear in thread that he wanted KY Krew dead, and when given the chance he voted Panzer instead.
2. Pooky - He said several times that he wanted to lynch Pooky, but changed his tune from "scum" to "wildcard" once presented the opportunity.
3. GnB - As with Pooky, several times he said he'd like to see GnB lynched, yet never voted them.
4. Thok - This may be the worst of the four - he never, not once, mentions Thok in-thread.

Starkiss is similar, but not quite as bad:

1. KY Krew - Condocet votes KY Krew #1
2. Pooky - Only lists Pooky at the bottom of a scumlist but no interaction
3. GnB - Seems to be some light scumhunting/questioning, but that's about it.
4. Thok - Same as hewitt - never, not once, mentions Thok in-thread.

[Thesp]

Some of what you've alluded to (as have I) - they have terrible voting records, and I haven't seen much that implies they are town. I've seen someconflicted indications from you as being town, and I've seen plenty from VP Baltar. I've seen squat from hewitt, and only glimmers from StarKiss.

That's not what I meant. I'm asking what makes you think they're scum

together

. I can easily identify what makes them independently scummy, but I see precious little that shows them being part of a scum team.

I'm with you - at the same time, I've seen little of pairings between

any

of our remaining people (which is odd to me because it's my favorite way to scumhunt, and it feels stunted in this game), besides the possible you with hewitt-or-StarKiss pairing based largely on the turbo-lynch from yesterday. I didn't know if you'd seen something particular that made you think they

aren't

scum together, which are also things I look for and hadn't seen.

Who would you prefer to lynch?

Hewitt. He and Starkiss have similar voting records, but I feel hewitt is worse because of his interactions with our flipped scum. To reiterate:

1. KY Krew - He made clear in thread that he wanted KY Krew dead, and when given the chance he voted Panzer instead.
2. Pooky - He said several times that he wanted to lynch Pooky, but changed his tune from "scum" to "wildcard" once presented the opportunity.
3. GnB - As with Pooky, several times he said he'd like to see GnB lynched, yet never voted them.
4. Thok - This may be the worst of the four - he never, not once, mentions Thok in-thread.

Starkiss is similar, but not quite as bad:

1. KY Krew - Condocet votes KY Krew #1
2. Pooky - Only lists Pooky at the bottom of a scumlist but no interaction
3. GnB - Seems to be some light scumhunting/questioning, but that's about it.
4. Thok - Same as hewitt - never, not once, mentions Thok in-thread.

Thanks for the reiteration. I'm totally down with that. I'm voting hewitt tomorrow if he hasn't posted something good. Same for StarKiss. (I may vote one of them tomorrow anyway, but if I haven't heard anything, I'm definitely voting for the one I haven't heard from.)

[Mighty Orbots]

I'm with you - at the same time, I've seen little of pairings between

any

of our remaining people (which is odd to me because it's my favorite way to scumhunt, and it feels stunted in this game), besides the possible you with hewitt-or-StarKiss pairing based largely on the turbo-lynch from yesterday. I didn't know if you'd seen something particular that made you think they

aren't

scum together, which are also things I look for and hadn't seen.

The only real concrete thing I can point to is hewitt's bizarre defense of Starkiss from yesterday.

I don't care that you think my reasons for thinking Starkiss being town is pretty awful because any scum player would say that in order to discredit my opinion. The scum have done a pretty great job of discrediting anything Starkiss and myself say in Endgame, ensuring that we will be lynched no matter what.

I have a hard time believing scum would openly defend each other in this setup.