The Children of Húrin Mafia (GREAT REVIVAL)

[Furcolow]

1) I suspect Andrius is scum
2) Good job killing the doctor, Feysal

[Amrun]

Chronopie was lurking. I vigged him too, even if Feysal shot him too. I'm assuming from Furc's comment that he did.

In the past, I've found lurking to be a MAJOR scumtell for Chronopie, and Magister Ludi highly suspected him and I was letting him direct my shot because he would have a better perspective, being more present.

But I agreed, because lurkychrono is more often than not scrumchrono.

So while the outcome was unfortunate, I don't see the point of your comment. Good job being non-contributive, Furcolow. Why is Andrius scum?

I considered shooting you last night, but I wanted to hit scum rather than third party. Still, shooting the town doctor DID spook me a bit so I considered you and Feysal both for safe shots. But hitting scum is the real goal. I hit nothing, though, apparently.

[Furcolow]

I didn't like Andrius's reaction to Feysal's killchoice
It felt like he was scum gloating that the Doctor has died

[Amrun]

Why are you only saying this now? The doctor died n1.

[Mastermind of Sin]

I don't know what to think right now. S&M have just claimed to be a vig who has no way of proving they have the power to kill, since they claimed Feysal's N1 target and a guy who didn't die N2. There are a lot of ways for that to happen, but it doesn't make me feel any better about their claim. Ooba backing it up helps somewhat, except that S&M could have just lied to Ooba about being a vig.

Vote: S&M

[Andrius]

Well, I disagree. I did not claim miller when I was converted and I think it is the right choice.

HOWEVER, obviously, I have not been playing this game properly. :/ I already feel pretty bad about it. There's nothing I can say there.

1) Given that Magna, on order of the Seraphs, EXPLICITLY SAID TO CLAIM ANY NEGATIVE ROLE-RELATED AFFECTS YOU GAIN IN THREAD, this is a load of bull.

2) Faraday's response to the "I did not claim milller..." was "lol".
It was the WRONG MOVE. Accept that and learn

[Andrius]

Oh, one last bit of information for the Playerbase from Seraph1...

Don't claim Town positive boons or activated abilities as they happen. Keep the mystery going.

However if you receive a negative effect or have an activated ability suddenly disappear that was Town positive claim it IMMEDIATELY.

That is all .... MoI Out!

However if you receive a negative effect or have an activated ability suddenly disappear that was Town positive claim it IMMEDIATELY.

However if you receive a negative effect [...] claim it IMMEDIATELY.

I think I've made our stance quite clear.
Again, if ANYONE picks up a negative status affect...



...

claim it.

[Feysal]

Yeah, no. There's too much not adding up here, bro. Why did you target Wraith out of the people on the lists, a person whom you had a town read on instead of shooting one of your scum suspects, trying to even the odds which would benefit you as well in the long run (since you claim that Glaurung = likely scum is one of your targets as well)? Did you see any breadcrumbs from Wraith pointing to him being Beleg?

I saw no breadcrumbs, and had no reason to expect Wraith would be Brandir. As for my read on him, I posted that read on day one, and some of those have changed. For Wraith, it was the conflict between posts #1334 and #1346 that made me choose Wraith. First not aiding in getting kanye lynched, then complaining that he was not lynched? That was enough to make my early town read on him null and void.

As for the death flavor and both of the deaths with that flavor being from my list, I realize it looks like I would have more information than I've shared. However, I don't. If I knew who Glaurung was, I'd have served him on a silver platter on day one to save myself and buy town credit.

Furthermore, him targeting someone who WANTED to die and thus wasting a kill is VERY WEIRD.
Faraday would like an explanation for this, Feysal_SK.*

*Preferably in a short post. He has not the patience to read long posts.

My answer, in one word, is survival.

I don't need to personally kill any of my targets. I only need to outlive them. That is why on day one I was trying to turn my game around with a scum lynch, and when PeregrineV flipped town, targeting Furcolow like he wished seemed like the pro-town thing to do. I certainly thought it would be more beneficial to my survival than starting a killing spree, particularly when I had no leads. My long-term plan was pretty much to stay alive and let lynches and scum night kills do my work for me.

Anyway, this discussion seems now moot, at least for today, because of MoI's claim.

Also very clearly this is why I wanted Feysal to die since I am very likely one of his targets. If I die via NK and he doesn't go with me please hang him the next day, regardless of what he says.

MoI, if there's anything else you want to say, now would be the right time. I don't trust Feysal now that you've claimed and if you're indeed his second to last target. It gives him leeway to kill you and then come in tomorrow "Well, guys, now it's only Glaurung left, so you can bet your asses I'ma help town from now on!"

Feysal, if you truly want to work with the town to accomplish your win condition without having us kill you first, please leave MoI alive until you have found and killed your fourth target (you have gotten 2 of 4 so far, right?). If you kill MoI before eliminating your other target, I swear to god I will hunt you down and lynch you before you get the chance to win.

Okay, I already wrote a response to these saying I understood MoI was off limits without you saying so, then I read further and the counterclaim from Sun and Moon made it irrelevant. As things stand, assuming we don't lynch either Sun and Moon or MoI, if MoI does not die at the end of the day he should be fair game.

I also have one more scum suspect in mind, so whatever happens, I should have an easy choice who to target tonight.

I don't know what to think right now. S&M have just claimed to be a vig who has no way of proving they have the power to kill, since they claimed Feysal's N1 target and a guy who didn't die N2. There are a lot of ways for that to happen, but it doesn't make me feel any better about their claim. Ooba backing it up helps somewhat, except that S&M could have just lied to Ooba about being a vig.

Amrun is obviously out of touch with the game, and mixed up some things. On N1, I targeted Furcolow aka Mîm. Not Chronopie aka Beleg the town doctor, although I did consider it, apparently for the exact same reason Amrun did. On N2, I killed Wraith aka Brandir the town weak doctor/one-shot doctor-cop, which Furcolow was apparently referring to. Therefore Chronopie's death is apparently evidence of Sun and Moon being a vigilante.

[Amrun]

I never read that, Andrius, because I've only read bits and pieces of the game. In light of that only, I should have claimed it. But I told Ludi as soon as it happened, and though it was near the end of the night and we didn't get to discuss it fully before lock, the first thing he asked was how I knew it, and did not warn me to claim. I was hoping we would get more time, but I didn't get notified of the change until after my night action was processed (and interestingly enough, I got a "result" that told me Chrono's flip before the thread opened).

[Andrius]

Faraday says the timing of the miller thing makes no sense to him.

[Amrun]

Well it makes even less sense to me, so that makes 2 of us, I guess?

[MagnaofIllusion]

Okay, I'll ask. Fair enough.

I’m putting this right up front so no-one misses it.

This quote shows (which ooba alluded to in his claim where he said S&M was confirmed his brother not confirmed Town) that nowhere in the claimed ‘Mason’ role PMs is alignment specifically stated. Which it is in actual Masons. Sun and Moon would have no reason to check with Plum if they were Masons in the normal sense. This actually makes me think they are less likely to be scum partners as ooba would have come out firing that they were alignment confirmed to each other.

So the next person who says “Hey, he’s Town because he’s a Mason” gets an Internet Wedgie. Enough said.

--

By all means, feel free to fix that. The novelty wore off. Thank God I got a side job as Mouthpiece of the Seraphs.

You only got the gig since AGM is an Asshat

I'm inclined to think you're scum, now that the "PR" is fake.
REFERENCES: HASFUCKINGCOW

Meh, that’s a pretty weak reason to suspect him if it’s all you got.

Yes Cow did “Spreads arms wide”.

Meanwhile in Mystery Box Mafia ReaperCharlie (Scum) and Mastermind (Town) both also faked rather crippling post restrictions. Faking a PR is pretty much Null.

--

It seems there was no need to include your name when you claimed your result, Magna. "I'm a modified version of a cop, I have a guilty on Sun and Moon, and we have to lynch them first due to a complication of my ability" would have been enough for me.

There was a method to my madness. I can discuss it post-game if necessary.

--

CLAIM: Mason and vig.

On night 1, I shot chronopie. After this, I became a miller. Whether the two were related, I have no clue. That's why I didn't claim miller, because the start of day 2 is a really weird time to claim miller, and I have an otherwise provable claim. I did, of course, tell my mason partner when this happened.

So you are a Town Vig responsible for the ONLY death N1? And also a Mason where alignment isn’t explicitly stated in the Role PM? Those are Neigbors.

Die.

Even if I am lynched for this, which I shouldn't be, but even if I am, hopefully my death can accomplish something in this counterclaim.

So you shouldn’t be lynched when there is a Cop guilty on you, you claim the only N1 kill as a Vig, you claim Miller after the Guilty happens, and your play is scumtastic?

I think you being lynched will clear up all confusion.

I don't know how ANYONE can believe MoI above me in this situation, despite my lurkiness. I have multiple provable claims. I have Nienor. He has just the name with a cop ability, which I don't think even makes SENSE for Turin.

Well it’s confirmed you scan as scum and you claimed the death of Chronopie the Town cop on a Night where it was the only kill and Feysal and Furc cross confirm that Feysal targeted him. What that says about how ‘provable’ your claims are regarding alignment is no much.

Yes, Neighbor (it’s what you and ooba are, clearly, unless you are both Gambitting Scum partners) status doesn’t confirm jack shit either.

I love that you forget that the Seraphs absolutely know they unlocked my latent ability and everything else that’s gone on this game when saying “Hey, why should you believe MoI over me”.

Again … Die!

--

I suggest we lynch empking. MoI should die today if he's telling the truth. You can lynch\vig S&M and me if he flips town.

I hope you enjoy bullets / rope then because you are eating it by the end of tomorrow if we don’t lynch Sun and Moon today.

[Amrun]

a) Read more carefully. I am not asking about my mason status. I am asking about my kill flavor. I already know my mason status.

b) Chrono was the doctor, not the cop. I thought YOU were the town cop. lolwut

And though I HAVE been lurking, I have not been playing scumtastically. Lurking =/= scum. They are two different things that sometimes but not always coincide.


Faramina, can we PLEASE check to see MoI's real role name? I have been confirmed as Turin.

[Herodotus]

@Furcolow: what are your full win conditions? And did you say something about choosing your win condition, or am I misremembering? If so, how does that work -- when do you choose?

I think this question is important because furcolow has given unclear information on this, possibly to mislead. And he avoided it.

VOTE: Furcolow

Noting a major coincidence that out of 20 possible targets, Turin's first night action is to kill Beleg.

I think I believe ooba, which makes me likely to believe Sun and Moon.
@Ooba: Letting you/Magister direct their kill on a townie isn't good evidence of their being town.
@Sun and Moon: Did you see furcolow's request to be killed? What was your opinion of that, and what was Magister's?

[MagnaofIllusion]

a) Read more carefully. I am not asking about my mason status. I am asking about my kill flavor. I already know my mason status.

Here’s what Andy wrote.

Don't fucking guess. ASK THE MOD. If she says no then she says no.

Masons in a bastard game.
We're just checking.

Reads pretty clear to me that he’s asking you to check on your Mason status.

But why didn’t ooba explicitly claim you were alignment confirmed again?

b) Chrono was the doctor, not the cop. I thought YOU were the town cop. Lolwut

It’s a typo of course. Sorry I’m working 14 hour days and am a bit tired.

Sad that I still have put more effort into this game in said circumstances than your slot with TWO players.

Cheeky fucking scum.

And though I HAVE been lurking, I have not been playing scumtastically. Lurking =/= scum. They are two different things that sometimes but not always coincide.

CSL lurks as scum. Fact. Trying to play off that off is funny.

Faramina, can we PLEASE check to see MoI's real role name? I have been confirmed as Turin.

So you agree to self-hammer when it comes back Turin? Pinky swear?

And again … way to try to get the Town Seraph to use limited resources in confirming that you are scum who needs to die.

Cheeky fucking scum indeed.

[Herodotus]

I love that you forget that the Seraphs absolutely know they unlocked my latent ability and everything else that’s gone on this game when saying “Hey, why should you believe MoI over me”.

I wouldn't expect the Seraphs to know what that ability is, so how is this relevant?

I suggest we lynch empking. MoI should die today if he's telling the truth. You can lynch\vig S&M and me if he flips town.

I hope you enjoy bullets / rope then because you are eating it by the end of tomorrow if we don’t lynch Sun and Moon today.

Why?

[Amrun]

Given Andy's previous post, and mine, the context is clear that we are talking about kill flavors. In any case, that's what I was talking about, and what I asked the mod about.

CSL lurks as anything, actually. I never lurk, scum or not. This is my first shame of this sort.

And of course I don't agree to self hammer as a freaking mason vig. I will never self hammer. I will, though, shoot you if we are not lynched and you do not die.

If we're both town, then we're both Turin. I don't think that's very likely, so I think you're scum. I've already been confirmed as Turin, so why do you act like a seraph calling you Turin should make me scum? But if we ARE both Turin, somehow, that would mean very interesting things for flavor. You don't seem interested in this at all. I am. It's weird how uninterested you are in the fact that we have both claimed Turin. The more I think about it, the more it seems scum have some need to have me lynched today - kind of like a Bookie, in Sexy Sedilla. You claimed Turin just to claim the main guy and put the highest stakes possible. Ugh. The whole situation is very weird.

I've already been confirmed as Turin. The seraphs have already decreed that Empking needs to do, and so he should.

[kanyeknowsbest]

The more I think about it, the more it seems scum have some need to have me lynched today - kind of like a Bookie, in Sexy Sedilla. You claimed Turin just to claim the main guy and put the highest stakes possible. Ugh. The whole situation is very weird.

this doesnt make any sense. if scum absolutely need to have you lynched today, why would they provide a name claim that could be counterclaimed to wreck the wagon? moi had the credibility to lynch you just off the cop guilty while withholding his name. i dont think its unreasonable to suppose that scum moi would would fakeclaim a guilty on you, especially if scum knew you had been given the miller status, but i dont think its likely that he would have nameclaimed turin to do it.

[Herodotus]

Magna was dropped from the Seraph QT. AGM had the last action, so he presumably dropped Magna.

Strange question, but when did this happen? And what were the results - can Magna still read it, but not post in it?
Also, you say that there are suppposedly two other people whose identities haven't been revealed who are allowed in the Seraph QT? Who told you this? I think at least one other QT member player should claim, to confirm your accounts.

[Amrun]

The more I think about it, the more it seems scum have some need to have me lynched today - kind of like a Bookie, in Sexy Sedilla. You claimed Turin just to claim the main guy and put the highest stakes possible. Ugh. The whole situation is very weird.

this doesnt make any sense. if scum absolutely need to have you lynched today, why would they provide a name claim that could be counterclaimed to wreck the wagon? moi had the credibility to lynch you just off the cop guilty while withholding his name. i dont think its unreasonable to suppose that scum moi would would fakeclaim a guilty on you, especially if scum knew you had been given the miller status, but i dont think its likely that he would have nameclaimed turin to do it.

It is really weird.

I'm reaching for explanations.

Besides this, I can only thing of one other, and that's that there is two Turins in the game. Thoughts on the meanings behind this?

[SpyreX]

Ohhh hay look KKB with the correct result.

Today is absolutely not ending in anything but an S&M lynch and seriously, SERIOUSLY, anyone who is arguing that can become Feysal'd.

(Now aren't you glad Feysal is still around MoI)

[Amrun]

KKB didn't have any sort of "result" at all.

I will only be lynched today if the town is hideously stupid.

[Andrius]

Magna was dropped from the Seraph QT. AGM had the last action, so he presumably dropped Magna.

Strange question, but when did this happen? And what were the results - can Magna still read it, but not post in it?
Also, you say that there are suppposedly two other people whose identities haven't been revealed who are allowed in the Seraph QT? Who told you this? I think at least one other QT member player should claim, to confirm your accounts.

Sometime between AGM's last action and the end of N2. Fairly early in N2 we were given a new QT- and Magna was not present. So most likely AGM dropped him.
Which means it was a NEW QT, so Magna can neither read or post in it.
Yes. There was MYSTERY PERSON who I think was just a hoax, and someone else added by Faramina towards the end of D2.
I think there's only ONE other member in the QT, for the record.
And if I'm right they're the ONLY member left there besides me.
You have no reason to think I'd lie with my accounts now.
And given the high probability of ONE other member we don't need him to claim right now.

[Herodotus]

That is as I understood from Magna's description.
While I have no reason to think you'd lie, I also have no reason to expect you to care to help the town. Either you are anti-town, or you don't know whom to help. The only two motives I can expect from you are survival or pro-scum.

[Gut]

Ohhh hay look KKB with the correct result.

Today is absolutely not ending in anything but an S&M lynch and seriously, SERIOUSLY, anyone who is arguing that can become Feysal'd.

(Now aren't you glad Feysal is still around MoI)

LOL NO. We are giving in to lynching likely town just to save a slightly more useful town person? You do realize the scum get an NK then and we get no shot at actually lynching mafia? Lynching S&M here is a horrendous play.

@Amrun

Confirm with Plum that you are alignment confirmed masons. This is a bastard game.