Secret Alt Mafia 2 – Game over!

[Shady]

My eyes are glazing.

Can we lynch Shady now?

you're a fucking moron and no one respects your opinion

[Shady]

we could have constructed a plan for the night but that's sort of out the window now

i think it should just be mega/GV cops one of me/NA at this point, i don't think there's any better usage

[Natural Aristocracy]

I'll take the cop hit, yo.
I'm fine with the Quailford LOL lynch, too.
Let's do this.

[Gumby]

And Mega will be protected tonight.

Great job, genius, you know?

"Let's claim Doctor

after

claiming Doctor might have been useful so a lynch can go through on someone who my Doctor could have cleared, but still leaving me open to a Nightkill tonight. Oh, and I'll tell everyone who I'm protecting too so scum know who not to kill!"

Like, seriously, are you actually being that thick?

[Quilford]

Flip later; it's 3:18 AM here and I'm on holidays.

[Quilford]

• Votecount 4.5
  
  
  
  >>> Quailford LOL (5)— Greatvalue, The Phantom of the Opera, Gumby, Megafan1998, Shady <<<
  
  Greatvalue (2)— Spider Gwen, Quailford LOL
  Shady (1)— Titus
  
  
  Not Voting
  (1)— Natural Aristocracy
  
  At 5 votes, a lynch has been achieved.
  
  
  Deadline
  
  
  A lynch has been achieved before deadline.
  
  
  Mod notes
  
  
  Flip incoming...

[Quilford]

• >>> Quailford LOL,

  Mafia Station Chief

  , was lynched Day 4! <<<
  
  
  
  ...
  
  ...

[Quilford]

• >>> A win condition has been achieved! <<<
  
  
  
  ...
  
  ...

[Quilford]

• >>> Natural Aristocracy,

  Vanilla Townie

  , survived and won the game Day 4! <<<
  
  
  
  >>> Titus,

  Vanilla Townie

  , survived and won the game Day 4! <<<
  
  
  
  >>> Spider Gwen,

  Vanilla Townie

  , survived and won the game Day 4! <<<
  
  
  
  >>> Shady,

  Vanilla Townie

  , survived and won the game Day 4! <<<
  
  
  
  >>> The Phantom of the Opera,

  Vanilla Townie

  , survived and won the game Day 4! <<<
  
  
  
  >>> Greatvalue,

  Town Neapolitan

  , survived and won the game Day 4! <<<
  
  
  
  >>> Gumby,

  Town Miller

  , survived and won the game Day 4! <<<
  
  
  
  >>> Megafan1998,

  Town Vanilla Cop

  , survived and won the game Day 4! <<<
  
  
  
  >>> xXSexyKumquatXx,

  Vanilla Townie

  , posthumously won the game Day 4! <<<
  
  
  
  >>> Shiba Tatsuya,

  Vanilla Townie

  , posthumously won the game Day 4! <<<
  
  
  
  >>> You are dead to me,

  Town Vanilla Cop

  , posthumously won the game Day 4! <<<
  
  
  
  >>> the_soothsayer,

  Vanilla Townie

  , posthumously won the game Day 4! <<<
  
  
  
  The Town has won! The Mafia have been defeated.
  
  This game is now over. The setup, Night actions, and mod comments are to be revealed.

[Quilford]

• Mod comments
  
  
  Congratulations to a pretty divided town for uniting themselves around successive scum lynches. The mechanic definitely encourages a certain level of unpleasantness which fosters that division.
  
  That said, Quailford was the only scum member who put in an acceptable amount of effort, and even then they had little hope of winning. Certainly part of this is down to problematic interactions with buddies, but I think setup related reasons played a more decisive part:
  
  1. Greatvalue, the Neapolitan, investigated them on Night 1 and learnt that they were non-Vanilla. This meant, come claiming time, a VT claim would be fatal and a non-VT claim would likely fall apart under setup spec (as happened). I think this is part of the
  normal cut-and-thrust
  that comes with investigative roles, but it appears more unfair due to the fact he was the last scum member alive when the investigation result came to light.
  
  2. Both investigative roles become exponentially more powerful when less scum are alive and especially post-massclaim when people are able to get a better idea of whether the remaining Mafia are likely to be Vanilla or not. This one is
  completely on me
  . I did not take this into account at all and only saw the Vanilla Cop as useful at exposing fakeclaims and possibly helping the Neapolitan sniff out a Mafia Goon.
  
  So, in hindsight, the Deputy role should not have been included. It tricked the Station Chief into thinking they were out of danger to some extent, when in fact the Vanilla Cop was coming back bigger and better than ever.
  Although I still think to some extent the way in which this setup turned out was an edge case that just looks really bad for the scum because there were no protective roles
  and it's really easy for the Station Chief to use their ability to pick off the investigative roles by working backwards from their breadcrumbs and two of the scum slots fell without putting up much of a fight
  grumble grumble whine grumble whine whine
  
  
  I doubt I am going to run another game under the Secret Alt mechanic. I thought it might be worth running another Secret Alt game because everyone seemed to like the mechanic enough in the first game and I thought the lack of activity was down to prod timers and deadlines being too long. But no, I think people just feel less shame from lurking / getting prodded / getting replaced if their mains aren't involved. If anyone were to run a similar game, I would recommend making the players agree to having their mains outed if they're replaced due to inactivity. (I came up with this idea independently of Shiba Tatsuya, but feared player revolt if I raised it after the game had already begun.) I also would wait until ms.net came up with a quicker and easier way of switching accounts, or alternatively just run the game off-site.
  
  Here's the Dead PT. Here's the Mod PT, including all the Night actions, Role PMs and discussion between me and spoilered players. I'll reveal the Scum PT if Quailford agrees to it.
  
  Thanks everyone, and special thanks to our replacements, many of whom replaced into slots that were very close to being lynched. Keep any post-game discussion civil or I'll lock the thread.

[Spider Gwen]

Okay, Station Chief was the link I was missing. I still think town having both Vanilla Cop and Neaploitan is redundant, as Neapolitan being a much better version of VC makes that role essentially useless. Add a Deputy to that, and I'm shocked this was approved at all. I would think a reviewer would point out the problems with this. I think Deputy would have been good to ax, although I'm thinking it might have been better to get rid of the redundant VC role.

Overall, my biggest regret is that I had my doubts at the 11th hour on the Zuko lynch. I freaked out at that strange reaction and even PMed the mod to make sure a mislynch didn't happen when he wasn't really hammered. I really wish I'd have stayed on there in the long run.

[Ether]

Gwen is Ether.

Wait. Wait. What?

Gwen was playing well before disappearing from the game.

...

I feel like I should be upset but I'm just cackling wildly.

[Gumby]

I have no idea who anyone was (apart from the player whom DGB was because I saw her post before it was deleted, thankfully I have little to no meta experience of DGB so I couldn't really... you know... do anything with the knowledge).

Now I wonder if anyone can guess who I am...

[Marquis]

And gumby's signature looks like Marquis

well ok then.

[Gumby]

(Hint: I'm not Marquis)

[Quilford]

I would think a reviewer would point out the problems with this.

In review, people were actually worried town would have too little power!

Vanilla Cop was also in there to shield the Neapolitan from the Station Chief. I mean, given how pro-breadcrumbing the current meta is, it becomes a 50% chance you've picked off the most important PR rather than a 100% chance.

[Gumby]

I must say, the Station Chief is a really clever role; it gives scum quite a bit of useful power (knowing where all of the Cops visit), but it's info that is entirely useless to them unless they apply skill. It can be quite difficult to create a role like that. Well done.

I'm not going to get into balance conversations, but there was one problem that it was slightly broken by the massclaim; the roles have such a synergy that you see the claims and know it makes just enough sense for them all to likely be telling the truth.

[Quilford]

I must say, the Station Chief is a really clever role; it gives scum quite a bit of useful power (knowing where all of the Cops visit), but it's info that is entirely useless to them unless they apply skill. It can be quite difficult to create a role like that. Well done.

Thanks, I really appreciate it. (:

I'm not going to get into balance conversations, but there was one problem that it was slightly broken by the massclaim; the roles have such a synergy that you see the claims and know it makes just enough sense for them all to likely be telling the truth.

Yeah, I don't disagree. Because I came up with the idea for the Station Chief and then designed the setup around it, it probably came out looking a little too perfect, like a model setup that's meant to be looked at but not played.

[Gumby]

I'm quite happy that, during the game, no-one tried to guess who I was. Probably would have irritated me a little.

Confused by it though; I wasn't exactly attempting to disguise who I actually was, so I wouldn't be too hard to guess, methinks. I dunno.

[Gumby]

Actually, that's a slight lie; there's one aspect of me that I had to actively avoid because it would have given away who I was to basically anyone who's interacted with me.

[Ether]

The station chief means a neapolitan with innocents is going to be really obvious, since you know who they're ignoring. (You listed Megafan as a second vanilla cop instead of a deputy twice, by the way.) I'm not sure a vanilla cop would deflect that, since vanilla cops don't really have innocents or guilties as such unless they're contradicting a claim.

Balance seemed all right to me. I think the deputy and making it 15 players instead of 13 helped. But I would totally say that.

(Also eeeeeeeee neapolitans you used a neapolitan!)

[Quilford]

(You listed Megafan as a second vanilla cop instead of a deputy twice, by the way.)

Eh I just flip people with the role name from the most recent role PM they were sent. I'm willing to be persuaded otherwise though.

(Haha yeah I chose the Neapolitan as the primary investigative role pretty much because of your advocacy)

[Shadoweh]

[quote=Quilly]I doubt I am going to run another game under the Secret Alt mechanic. I thought it might be worth running another Secret Alt game because everyone seemed to like the mechanic enough in the first game and I thought the lack of activity was down to prod timers and deadlines being too long. But no, I think people just feel less shame from lurking / getting prodded / getting replaced if their mains aren't involved. If anyone were to run a similar game, I would recommend making the players agree to having their mains outed if they're replaced due to inactivity. (I came up with this idea independently of Shiba Tatsuya, but feared player revolt if I raised it after the game had already begun.) I also would wait until ms.net came up with a quicker and easier way of switching accounts, or alternatively just run the game off-site.[/quote]
I think it's weird that having ALL the alts revealed at the end wasn't a condition of the game in the first place. What's the point of playing and guessing at people if you don't get the confirmations at the end of who That Asshole was or the surprise that Mr. Competent was someone you normally think is a VI?

[Titus]

Tbh, I want to know who Shady is because his behavior is totally unacceptable for town.

[Greatvalue]

Subject: Secret Alt Mafia 2 – Mod PT

I thought Yadtm got a Vanilla result on Quail and that it contrasting with his vig claim was a contradiction, but I can see Yadtm taking a not Vanilla result on Quail as an indicator of towniness.

Oh my god, dummy. A "Vanilla" or "not vanilla" result isn't indicative of shit.

There are four categories of players: vanilla townies, town PRs, mafia goons, and mafia PRs. A vanilla cop is only useful after players claim to see if it matches up. It matching up is in no way indicative of town because mafia goons can fake claim VT roles and mafia PRs can fake-claim town PRs. On the off-chance they don't, then they get caught. That's it.

Assuming that someone is town because I get a vanilla result on them is stupid. Assuming that someone is town because I get a non-vanilla result on them is stupid. I can only conclude that you believe I'm stupid. But trying to draw conclusions through assuming that your fellow townies are stupid is

itself

stupid.

Well of course. I did actually think YADTM investigated Quail N1, but had no idea what the result was. I had a great deal of investment in trying to determine that because it could have identified him as a Mafia Goon, so I spun it a bit to try and to induce a role-indicative reaction from Quailford, wording things in a way that it seemed like he would gain the benefit of stronger townreads if he agreed/committed to a VT hint. Not the reaction I wanted though because then the Vig wasn't indicative with my result, though independently it was still really literally incredible.

In hindsight him knowing he was investigated makes sense. Did he think I/someone else was a Tracker or something? The early Vig claim seemed rushed but just enough to cover all bases.