Speed Mafia (Game Over, who won?)

[Benmage]

I didn't understand the cobbler kill.

[DrippingGoofball]

DGB, I played with you in War of Heaven II and HATED YOU SO MUCH (because you got the better of me, not as town, but as scum). I am so glad to have got to play with you this game and changed my opinion.

Phew - that's why I don't like being scum... you have to be evil to satisfy your wincon.

[DrippingGoofball]

Would you and Camn still have saved me if I claimed Vanilla? :3

You'll have to ask camn... she's the one who insisted on tasting a bite of the cupcake.

[Katsuki]

Can you guys post the scum quicktopic?

As long as my team is fine with it.

[Patrick]

Here's the dead person's quicktopic anyway: http://www.quicktopic.com/46/H/tE3WDgyEcX6bG

[Benmage]

you have to be evil to satisfy your wincon.

Thats why I love being scum.

[xRECKONERx]

I think it is town sided but it did make it to 3-way LYLO and I am sorry but saying that I latched on to "one thing" is selling me short and I don't appreciate it. I also mentioned that I didn't like that massive leap you made with "Katsuki and C-Worl are scum" that I pointed out to you. I also read some of your other games and saw how you bussed your partners a lot as scum (which you did in this game). I had said Amrun was town since Day 1. I did not like her play today but I did exactly what you are accusing me of not doing. I couldn't ignore the other 60 pages of my town read on Amrun and say "well she screwed up today" and lynch her. I think you played well, but this attacking me because I chose right is annoying. I don't know why you have to call me a bad player, it's just rude and makes you look like a sore loser.

Never called you a bad player.

QFT.

Look at the sites scum win ratio. Its absurd. The town wasn't OP in this game at all. 4 scum v 14 town is scum heavy.

Trackers are good...no doubt. But not amazing.

HELL I tracked you N1... a tracker has to nail the one committing the act.

Daytalk isn't as useful as you're giving it credit for. Tell me, what can people actually coordinate during the day that's powerful enough to counter two trackers, a jailkeeper, and a rolecop?

This made it hard to take the rest seriously, but ok..

Daytalk is relevant. The fact that your team made poor use of it doesn't turn an encryptor into a goon. I've modded a decent number of games where scum could daytalk, sometimes it's a great asset and sometimes scum act as though they don't have it.

Town had 3 investigative roles, which isn't exactly unheard of in a game this size. None of them are very good at catching scum directly, the rolecop can only bust one of the scum and trackers are more about verifying claims. Yes you were unlucky to have Ludi and C-Worl caught by trackers, but it's very rare that it happens. Tracker isn't an especially strong role.

I would like to see exactly how daytalk can be used to coordinate so well that it counters the idea of town having that many power roles. We had one of our kill stopped by a jailkeeper, two people taken down by trackers, and one of our scum caught by the rolecop. We don't even have any visiting roles to counter the trackers. And tracker is strong enough to confirm someone as visiting or not visiting, which confirms they have an ability -- just think, if SpyreX had tracked C-Worl and he was just a roleblocker or something, C-Worl wouldn't have been lynched so easily.

I do like your smarmy remark at the start about how you couldn't take the rest of my post seriously though.

I don't see how this matches up with your (5). Katsuki and C-Worl both looked scummy throughout the whole game, only the Magister Ludi lynch was really out of the blue. And really, complaining about being lynched in the endgame? Juls hammered you over one thing that made Amrun obviously town compared to you, that's pretty fucking common in mafia, doubly so in speed games where people play by gut. Get a grip on yourself. How many scum do I have to read whining that they were lynched for reasons they don't think are good enough?

How many mods do I have to play under who get defensive when someone points out the obvious flaws in their setup? Fucking shit, Patrick, if this had been an all-vanilla game, there's no way scum would've lost. Hell, if we had even had a single actual power role, we would've been able to do much better. I'd sacrifice a million Encryptors for one real power role.

Reck, the way you are treating Juls is unsportsmanlike and I am disappointed. You are being unfair to me, too, but I didn't play as well as Juls did.

How the fuck am I treating Juls poorly? She made the right call -- I just disagree with her reasons for doing so, and I also disagree with her lack of a case or any points or any real discussion or discourse the final day. You BOTH didn't want to talk about it, you just wanted to lynch. I did some poor things in this game too, but if I was town and Juls had voted me like that (which was entirely possible seeing as how she said we were both scummy), I would be raging ten times more.

But good work Reck. You took scum to LYLO which is always an accomplishment in a Large game when you lose your partners relatively early.

Thank you.

As long as my team is fine with it.

I'm fine with it.


There are multiple factors here, but the real fact of the matter is that power roles won this game, not scumhunting. Every scum lynch except mine was due to power roles, and you could even make a case that the tajo gambit was based around power roles. Hell, if our kill had gone through, tajo wouldn't have been around and wouldn't have been able to pull that gambit, which in the end got me lynched. I primarily take issue with Patrick's setup rather than anyone's play. In fact, there were like two different occasions in the scum QT when we were like "Certainly that's all of the town power roles, there CAN'T be another one!"

Amrun deserved to be lynched for automatically voting in lylo like that. Juls wound up making the right decision due to tajo's gambit, which was good on her part, but I still feel a tad bit cheated by the setup here.

I'll just take ease in the fact that I still made it to LyLo despite having my scumteam get picked off by an overpowered town and call it a day.

Good game, players.

[Katsuki]

There are multiple factors here, but the real fact of the matter is that power roles won this game, not scumhunting.

This.

[xRECKONERx]

When I shot SpyreX, I shot him because I thought his gambit was obvtown and thus he'd be unlynchable. When he flipped an actual Tracker, my jaw hit the floor.

[Benmage]

The PRs caught scum only because scum made themselves scummy. I wouldn't have tracked Ludi had he not been scummy. I also tracked you!

Katsuki should've been lynched D1...but WAS DYING in a day or so. On a fake hiderclaim.. Its D3 auto! To confirm atleast 2 townies....HE wasn't making it to endgame! No way C-worl was making it to lylo either...So don't whine to us that PRS won the game. Shitty scum looking like scum got caught by PRs.

You killed the smart town like any good scum team should and thats why you lived so long. We had Lowell.

[Benmage]

You played good Reck...I just don't think its as godawfullyimbalanced as you're making it out to be.

4v14. I alwayssss think scum have such an advantage in these games...and the stats show that to be the truth.

[dramonic]

4vs14 seems awfully townsided <_<
especially with 2 trackers 1 JK and 1 rolecop against... nothing? (FWIW, I don't use the encryptor role because I allow daytalk regardless)

[Benmage]

4vs14 seems awfully townsided <_<

10-2 mountainous...... how is 4v14 townsided?

[populartajo]

you guys are really understimating encryptors.

had your partners been more active in the scum qt, you guys would have avoided the karsuki herp derp day 1, the stupid hider claim and a better approach to tajo lolgambit.

[Patrick]

I would like to see exactly how daytalk can be used to coordinate so well that it counters the idea of town having that many power roles. We had one of our kill stopped by a jailkeeper, two people taken down by trackers, and one of our scum caught by the rolecop. We don't even have any visiting roles to counter the trackers. And tracker is strong enough to confirm someone as visiting or not visiting, which confirms they have an ability -- just think, if SpyreX had tracked C-Worl and he was just a roleblocker or something, C-Worl wouldn't have been lynched so easily.

Your team had a ton of trouble with the town power in this game, and you're taking that to mean the town is overpowered which doesn't necessarily follow. Again, the rolecop is a weak role, it can only catch one of the scum directly, and saying that you had Katsuki caught by the rolecop makes it sounds like it came out of nowhere. Katsuki looked scummy and had to claim very early on, which led to being caught. That's play, not overpowered town. Trackers are ok, but they're being made to look stronger because in this game two scum were caught in the act of killing by trackers. That isn't the norm.

And what I said is exactly what I thought when I read your comment about an encryptor being a goon. If you're carrying on some kind of reasonable debate about a setup then it's pretty pointless to make sweeping comments like that. Daytalking is pretty erratic in terms of how strong it is, the fact your team used it poorly doesn't make it a tiny bonus.

How many mods do I have to play under who get defensive when someone points out the obvious flaws in their setup?

When you post after the game that someone's setup completely sucks, they are going to respond to it defensively, no surprises there. What you said about Juls and Amrun was in pretty terrible taste too.

Fucking shit, Patrick, if this had been an all-vanilla game, there's no way scum would've lost.

Yes.

[dramonic]

4vs14 seems awfully townsided <_<

10-2 mountainous...... how is 4v14 townsided?

mountainous doesn't have town PRs.

[Benmage]

I'll just take ease in the fact that I still made it to LyLo despite having my scumteam get picked off by an overpowered town and call it a day.

Good game, players.

Once all the PRs were dead...the play was yours and yours alone. (Why did you kill Cobbler?)

Thats why I love being scum. I make up so much more of my teams winning %. Thats why I bus. I plan to win alone. (Which is why I only get caught by PRs as scum) I don't have to worry about players like Lowell.

[Benmage]

4vs14 seems awfully townsided <_<

10-2 mountainous...... how is 4v14 townsided?

mountainous doesn't have town PRs.

4vs14

seems awfully townsided

<_<

especially

with 2 trackers 1 JK and 1 rolecop against... nothing? (FWIW, I don't use the encryptor role because I allow daytalk regardless)

So why Especially? It sounds like the base...4v14 in your mind was townsided...Then ever more so hence "especially" with the added PRs.

Like it was said. We had a good amount of good townies.

[Juls]

Patrick, I don't think it was OVERWHELMINGLY town-sided but maybe slightly. I thought scum would have had one more PR (maybe a rolecop) and it would have been balanced. That said, I enjoyed the game immensely and thanks!

[Cobblerfone]

This is my new favorite game. All of you are awesome.

I especially liked:
DGB and Camn
Reck
SpyreX

And in the end, Tajo's gambit helped get the last scum. That's cool.

[C-Worl]

Welp, set up sucked. On other sites where I play scum can day talk anyway. In the Dynasty Warriors game we were allowed to anyway. In this game that was our ONE Pr and Town had 3 informative roles. Set-Up absolutely sucked. But it's whatever my play was lurkerific so whatever. Town didn't really do a good job but it's whatever. I'm not going to complain anymore than that. It's just my two cents.

[Amrun]

C-Worl, that game was a nightless game...

Agree with Juls about only slight townsidedness. Discussion continued in dead thread while site was down.

[SpyreX]

Well done Juls.

Reck you had me. Ludi had me pretty well. The other two wooosh.
We had some strong town BUT we had some dead weight which hurts - thankfully Juls made the decision I definitely wouldn't have.

As for the setup itself:

It was town sided. Not "BROKEN" but it was town leaning and I probably would have pushed for something in review for the scum - especially since tracker becomes stronger as the scumteam becomes weaker.

That said, N1 (assuming VT lynch):
Trackers have a 1/17 chance of getting a "real" result. They have a 3/17 chance of a "false" result. I'm pretty sure this lead to The Mask getting NK'd N2 in this game what with me thinking I got a bite because I sure didn't expect jail on tajo when I saw that result.
Jailkeeper has a 2/17 chance of blocking the kill. In this case, it doesn't give which end was blocked - as we saw with the blood for tajo it really didn't enter him being the NK.
Rolecop has a 1/17 chance of catching an obvious scum - sans fakeclaim shenanigans. NOW, one change I would have made would have been tracker and jailer being scum available roles - because that, while it didn't come up, was a huge worry.

Add in the double role shenanigans (which with it being benmage the obvtown for me wasn't an issue) and you could have had a recipe for disaster.

That said the only other thing I'd say is you ran a hard endgame road Reck with the obvious "why are YOU alive considering X,Y,Z are Nk'd" being forced to kill some of those targets hurts and not a position I relish.

[SpyreX]

When I shot SpyreX, I shot him because I thought his gambit was obvtown and thus he'd be unlynchable. When he flipped an actual Tracker, my jaw hit the floor.

Before I got my PM with an actual result I thought about doing it anyways. Think about that.

[Amrun]

Oh, and tajo, your gambit was frustrating at the time, but it ended up being crucial! Props given where props deserved.