Mafia 109 - A Glitch in time - Game Over!

[Pulindar]

I'm sorry Haylen, but I'm going to need to replace out now. I can't play a game with someone who would insult my friend in their Happy Scumday Celebration thread. It goes against my morals to have anything to do with them.

Since this is a quick game, and it is so near the end, I will continue playing until you find a suitable replacement.

[xRECKONERx]

^^

Uhh, is that a joke? Who the fuck did that?

[xRECKONERx]

EBWOP: And who the fuck cares? It's GD, it doesn't matter, and we're in LyLo. Answer my question.

[Pulindar]

The first thing I must do is retract my last post. Any of you who read Haylen's ScumDay celebration thread would realize that there was some drama going on. A few people had said things along the lines of celebrating Haylen's Scumday must be an April fools day prank. And most of them continued to insult Haylen. Partially through this Reck, you said

Toke Jopic

I initially was under the impression that you were insulting Haylen and saying it was a bad thing for her to be at Mafia Scum. I'm appolgizing because you later said

I've never had a problem with Haylen. ??

So yeah. Happy scumday.

I see I misunderstood you, and am doubley sorry. My emotions were a bit up because of the others, and I lumped you in with them. Haylen was the first person nice to me on Mafia Scum and I greatly appreciate her existance.

__________________________________________________________________

As for the game. Here's the way I see it.

I can't talk about the Godfather role, mainly because I'm an idiot, but it's gotta be a visiting role.

Whatever though, we can discuss that later. Reck is confirmed town for one main reason. SpyreX is at L-1. If Reck is mafia then he could vote SpyreX, and kill us one of us at night, thus winning the game. The only thing that bars that is if KMD happened to be the only one of scum able to kill (something I highly doubt)

[xRECKONERx]

I'm thinking it has to be SpyreX or Anon. You're town IMO. Odds point to SpyreX, gut points to Anon.

[Pulindar]

I'm betting my money on SpyreX, I ISOed Anon before and I'm almost as convinced he's town as I am that you are Reck. (and Reck's confirmed.)

[SpyreX]

...

Yea, Reck is town.

Although thats not a startling revelation.

The hop is awesome though.

I'm really excited to see what Anon has to say about Reck's look at balance.

[Anon]

Ok Reck is now oficially confirmed town.

Why exactly would scum need a tracker?

Seriously?

If we assume Spyrex is telling the truth, we have a gunsmith that targets, a jailkeeper that target, a tracker that targets, a very likely town godfather that targets (pretty sure camn is responsible for the second kill night 2) and..

...you think 3 goons with a godfahter is balanced enough?

A tracker is a powerful role for the town, not so much for the scum, which makes me think that for balance reasons, Spyrex is once again lying fakeclaiming scumbaggo.

As I said yesterday, I totally expect another power role scum in the mix. All of us have claimed vanillas and Spyrex has a report of me not going anywhere night 5.

[SpyreX]

If we assume Spyrex is telling the truth, we have a gunsmith that targets, a jailkeeper that target,

a tracker that targets

, a very likely town godfather that targets (pretty sure camn is responsible for the second kill night 2) and..

Oooouuuuu

So, if I'm lying about being a tracker why would you have just listed a tracker as part of what targets?

A tracker is a powerful role for the town, not so much for the scum, which makes me think that for balance reasons, Spyrex is once again lying fakeclaiming scumbaggo.

And now I'm just flat lying?

But I was a scum tracker before?

I don't know what else to say. Pul, reread. It HAS to be Anon. If its you good game but seriously.

[Anon]

Answering to some things for a previous post:

3.) Because I watched him, KMD, the scum, go to a confirmed town player and then came up dead?

If you had a "guilty" result on him and you voted him as soon as day started, then why the HELL, like seriously, why in HELL when kmd posted this:

Welp...
Good game scum...

You posted this?

Thats only two votes.
That said thats not what I would have expected.

Unvote

for the moment.

You of all the players in this game know that kmd's "good game scum" doesnt mean anything. Which is even worse, since if you are pretty sure he is scum, as your RESULT and your early votes shows, then that comment SHOULDNT have made you hesitate. It should have made you happy that the scumbag you caught got lynched. Yet, you unvoted.

Why is Reck alive?

Hmm, I don't know. The fact that I'd SEE YOU KILL RECK maybe?

lol. It would have been the same scenario. It would be your word against my word. We would be in a hypothetic day 9 with both of us crossvoting and having Pulindar for the hammer.

The difference is that you knew Reck would be more easy to trick since he bought your claim since you made it. I literally have no reason to keep Reck alive. You, definitely have a lot.

So die now. NOW.

[Anon]

So, if I'm lying about being a tracker why would you have just listed a tracker as part of what targets?

That was an hypothesis that shows that a town tracker mixed with the pool of town power roles is just too powerful against a scumteam with just a godfather.

Nice misrep, btw.

[SpyreX]

OHH DAG YOU CAUGHT ME

Or, wait, lets look.

Thats only two votes.

That said thats not what I would have expected.

Unvote for the moment.

I know I'm just trying to parse out what the hell is up with the "welp, good game" at two.

Last ditch effort I suppose.

Vote: KMD

Yes, I was caught offguard in lylo for 4 minutes.

lol. It would have been the same scenario. It would be your word against my word. We would be in a hypothetic day 9 with both of us crossvoting and having Pulindar for the hammer.

The difference is that you knew Reck would be more easy to trick since he bought your claim since you made it. I literally have no reason to keep Reck alive. You, definitely have a lot.

So die now. NOW.

And the fact in that scenario a dead Reck points directly at you being scum? Because, in fact, I'd have no reason to kill him?

That was an hypothesis that shows that a town tracker mixed with the pool of town power roles is just too powerful against a scumteam with just a godfather.

Nice misrep, btw.

You're partially right. I missed the "assume SpyreX is telling the truth" business.

Which means instead of what I was looking at you're saying: If SpyreX is telling the truth someone else is lying!

HUZZAH!

----

Nice not answering why I'm not all of a sudden just totally lying instead of a scum tracker. Which is the first thing you said after I claimed. In fact lets really get that out:

Conclusion
There are still some things that dont feel right in the Spyrex claim. Im very close to believe he is a tracker, just for the confirmed targets and such. Which in NO WAY means he is confirmed town. Optimal play is to let Spyrex get another investigation regardless of alignment or if he is town, let scum decide if he is worth the risk. Informational claims, with still some room for lylo, mostly check themselves.

And lets go way back:

Typical attack on a townie player while not trying to forget about his scumpartner, variation of "Vote:town, FoS:scumpartner" maneuver. Yes, this means kmd town, spyrex scum.

Odd how that meshes up with trying to swing that lynch KMD-day on me too.

[SpyreX]

And, of course, the final straw:

Lets assume I'm scum. That means I was scum with KMD. Reck, before that went down said he was pretty sure I was town.

Why wouldn't I have lied and said you performed the kill?

[xRECKONERx]

Vote: Anon

Yup.

[Pulindar]

so, I'm town for the same reason Reck is town.

SpyreX does have a good point, hmm let me look over some stuff.

[Anon]

Yes, I was caught offguard in lylo for 4 minutes.

Pretty sure those 4 minutes would have been much longer if reckoner hadnt posted this after 2 minutes:

...
SpyreX.
You yourself said you know he's lying because you tracked him to the victim and he claimed roleblocked. Literally, this makes no sense, unless this is some weird modding.

]And the fact in that scenario a dead Reck points directly at you being scum? Because, in fact, I'd have no reason to kill him?

I have zero reason to keep him alive when he is the one thinking you are town and Pulindar leaning to Spyrexscum.

Which means instead of what I was looking at you're saying: If SpyreX is telling the truth someone else is lying!

Sure. Thats how hypothesis work. If we assume you are telling the truth, then someone else is lying. The point is that based on my hypothesis YOU are not telling the truth about being a town tracker. Balance reasons scream scum tracker.

Nice not answering why I'm not all of a sudden just totally lying instead of a scum tracker. Which is the first thing you said after I claimed. In fact lets really get that out:

Those things are not mutually exclusive. You are both a scum tracker and lying because you are saying you are a town tracker.

Odd how that meshes up with trying to swing that lynch KMD-day on me too.

Nacho bussing both of you in a same post with different intensity its a play that its not normal for a player of his kind. That was a bad read from me, dont try to paint bad reads as scumtells.

[Anon]

Pulindar and Reck, what good point are you talking about?

Lets expand the balance argument more, because I feet it has got lost in the warofquotes.

Setup N°1

1 x Mafia Godfather
3 x Mafia Goon

VS.

1 x Town Gunsmith
1 x Town Jailkeeper
1 x Town Tracker
1 x Town Godfather

This setup just gives too much power for the town with 3 power roles that can directly catch a mafiate. A town tracker is decent not only becasuse it can catch a scumbag doing the kill, it can clear other town power roles. Scum need to have another role besides godfather to help in an scenario where no power roles die.

Setup N°2

1 x Mafia Godfather
1 x Mafia Tracker
2 x Mafia Goon

VS.

1 x Town Gunsmith
1 x Town Jailkeeper
1 x Town Godfather

This setup, in the other hand, gives scum a way to deal with these roles in case no targetting power roles die. Id still say is a little imba but its definitely more balanced that Serup N1 since a scum tracker is inherently less powerful.

[Anon]

I have realized that screaming "Spyrex, you are playing to your scum meta, diescumdie!1" doesnt do much if I dont bring examples to back up my point.

I have read some of Spyrex last games and Ive been with him in a more recent one, StrangerCougs's Nekomata, which is basically the game where his playstyle is not even remotely similar to the one exhibited here.

Link: http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=13266

Just isolate Spyrex and tell me if he doesnt become obvtown as he keeps posting. As his other games as town show, he is very very good when he is town. Why? Because he is active, he is a decent reasoner, a good scumhunter and is a NATURAL LEADER. He has to have his scumbag caught before they kill him, therefore all his stances are strong and inquisitive.

This game, Spyrex has strategically lurked. Became heavily suspected until he claimed. His reasoner aspect is still intact but he has been far away from being the natural leader he loves to play when he is town and takes a passive stance of going with the flow until eyes turn to him. Do you remember a strong stance of him before going all in with annoying Anon? Nah. He hates to be scum, therefore he doesnt play it natural. His suspicions are weak and forced. Like these games, for example, which reassemble his claiming abilities:

Battle Mafia: http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=12167

Super Upick: http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=12611

Of course he would say that meta is a retarded argument. He has a well defined meta as town and as scum. He is so transparent and so easy to read its not even funny.

[SpyreX]

Pretty sure those 4 minutes would have been much longer if reckoner hadnt posted this after 2 minutes:

Watching a scum go down with just a toot after the histerics in lylo is something that's gonna give pause, yes.

Yes, recks post was a nice slap of "don't doubt yourself" which, WOAH, worked.

I have zero reason to keep him alive when he is the one thinking you are town and Pulindar leaning to Spyrexscum.

Except that, follow me, that kill wouldn't make sense for me

because he thinks I'm town.

Much like why you didn't kill me before because that flip points directly at you being scum.

Sure. Thats how hypothesis work. If we assume you are telling the truth, then someone else is lying. The point is that based on my hypothesis YOU are not telling the truth about being a town tracker. Balance reasons scream scum tracker.

That was an hypothesis that shows that a town tracker mixed with the pool of town power roles is just too powerful against a scumteam with just a godfather.

A tracker is a powerful role for the town, not so much for the scum, which makes me think that for balance reasons, Spyrex is once again lying fakeclaiming scumbaggo.

These three posts are

all on this page

.

1.) Balance reasons scream scum tracker because the scum is underweighted.
2.) A town tracker is just too powerful against a team where one member

moves each night

.
3.) Scum tracker is not a powerful role.
4.) SpyreX is fakeclaiming.

Look at these 4. This is this page. When you can't even keep your stance clear on this page, yea.

Those things are not mutually exclusive. You are both a scum tracker and lying because you are saying you are a town tracker.

You said I was fakeclaiming. Not that I was scum claiming my actual role. Well, then you did. But.

Nacho bussing both of you in a same post with different intensity its a play that its not normal for a player of his kind. That was a bad read from me, dont try to paint bad reads as scumtells.

Consistent and adamantly bad, hell yes. Especially since it wasn't "one of them are scum" it was "SPYREX (the guy I've been harping about all game) is scum and KMD (the scum godfather) is town!"

Thats not an accident. Or "a bad read".

---

The whole setup speculation is tech because you could damn well be a power role. Or who knows.

Extra points for taking out the miller (which I have to assume was a false positive on the gunsmith). Or the fact that a JK isn't near as much of a help for the gunsmith as a doc. Or a million other things.

---

This game, Spyrex has strategically lurked. Became heavily suspected until he claimed. His reasoner aspect is still intact but he has been far away from being the natural leader he loves to play when he is town and takes a passive stance of going with the flow until eyes turn to him. Do you remember a strong stance of him before going all in with annoying Anon? Nah. He hates to be scum, therefore he doesnt play it natural. His suspicions are weak and forced. Like these games, for example, which reassemble his claiming abilities:

Wooooosh.

Show it. Show me lurking (hint: I was gone a Friday night when Nik got powerbombed). (Double hint: Anon's been harping about there being a scum on that wagon - and he hopped on before Nik even had a real reason to take the rope which, of course, is damn well another reason not to kill me).

Your saying I jumped on Nik instead of arguing against it. Came out and put an early vote on Nacho for lurking.

Then opted to bus KMD in lylo

.

Yessir.

Of course he would say that meta is a retarded argument. He has a well defined meta as town and as scum. He is so transparent and so easy to read its not even funny.

So I'm saying that because I'm scum? Just this game? Lets be clear about this.
Or, in fact, because meta is retarded?

I'm not jumping into that but good job on those choices (hint: one of them I was a cult, the other was a ball of madness).

But, we'll get this really clear because while I wont do it I sure wont stop them from digging at it: you are saying, as scum, I lurk. That I'm not a good scumhunter and never a NATURAL LEADER (caps).

Just want that nice and laid out.

[xRECKONERx]

Except that, follow me, that kill wouldn't make sense for me

because he thinks I'm town

.

Uh what. Did you just prove that scum-SpyreX would want me alive?

[SpyreX]

If I was scum and it was 3 people left? Yea, even confirmed, you'd be a far better chance than Anon-Pulindar.

Of course that fact is partially why Anon

didn't kill me

.

[SpyreX]

Ohhhh and just so we don't get derailed from FAR more important tidbits there:

1.) Do you think I've been lurking?
2.) Do you think there is any way those statements add up regarding me on this page?

[Anon]

Yes, recks post was a nice slap of "don't doubt yourself" which, WOAH, worked.

Why.would.you.doubt.yourself? It just doesnt make sense since you GOT a guilty result on him and started attacking me when I told you I didnt like the speed of your vote. Why did you have to doubt after his good game scum at L-1. Is it the first time you see someone gambitting that way? I DOUBT SO.

Except that, follow me, that kill wouldn't make sense for me because he thinks I'm town.

Thats exactly my point. Reck, despite not being suspected by anyone, is mysteriously alive for some reason. But you already know it since you just wrote it.

Look at these 4. This is this page. When you can't even keep your stance clear on this page, yea.

My stance is pretty clear, good sir. You are a tracker but yaknow, for balance reasons, a scum type of one. So you are lying. Stop beating a dead horse.

1.) Do you think I've been lurking?

Strategically lurking. You missed the Nikanor discussion like the plague. Where were you when Yosa2 got lynched? Where were you when nacho was lynched? You sir, are full of weak stances and convenient periods of disappearing. This.is.not.your.townself.

2.) Do you think there is any way those statements add up regarding me on this page?

This page is lylo, Spyrex. Dont play silly.

[Anon]

It also interesting to note that even though KMD and Spyrex got clearly in a "at least one of you is scum" scenario after checking their night actions, KMD never voted Spyrex at all. Not even a little suspicion.

[Anon]

Reck, I want you to make a decision with the most possible information. Did you read those games I linked?