Mini 172 -- Friends Mafia -- Can you believe it? Over!

[Cadmium]

Another thing about Stewie's roleclaim: The cheating chandler angle. There's an episode where Ross has an 'older brother' conversation with chandler, and says that if chandler ever hurts monica, he'll hunt him down and kick his ass. There's no hook in the series that would give this angle as far as I can recall. But clinging tight to the actual storylines is another thin I don't want to do right now.

There also is an episode where Chandler is lying about his whereabouts. He says he's in Tulsa but is in New York. When he sneaks through the window into Monica's appartment, Joey thinks that Monica is cheating on him. In another episode, Phoebe and Rachel see Chandler sitting in a car with a blonde woman and think he's cheating on Monica. The woman actually was Monica and Chandler's realtor. Then there's an episode where Jack & Judy Geller hate Chandler because Ross blamed his pot smoking in college on him.

[Dragon Phoenix]

Too much to deal with in Cadmiums post right now (I do need to work as well).

I do know the show pretty well, indeed. So does Cadmium given his remarks. I do not see how speculating on the set-up in more detail would help the town though. If you want, I can take an hour tonight or tomorrow night and come up with ten different set-ups. And then?

[mepmuff]

It's not about possible set-ups. It's about discussing things like the likelyhood of stewies claim in light of the show. It's about discussing the killing methods in light of the show. It's about a huge possibillity to help the town with this info. If you know the show well, I just think you should have posted more than you did.

[Cadmium]

Just posting to say that I most likely won't have access until monday.

[Dragon Phoenix]

Well, the drawback of that is that so far the killing methods do not make sense to me in the light of the show.

I mean, why would the Ugly Naked Guy crush people or burn them? I can't think of anyone in the show that I would associate with crushing, unless maybe Ross with a dinosaur bone (don't think so). Burning, yes, although a stretch: Phoebe's brother (I think) who likes to melt things, which had already been mentioned by someone else.

Actually I did speculate for myself on a different scenario that would fit the burning much better. Joey and Chandler in at least one episode played fireball, in which they whacked a tennisball which was set on fire through their appartment. One scenario I could use if I set up a Friends mafia is that Chandler and Joey start out as town, but that if one of them gets killed the other goes berserk (SK) and starts killing players by esrving fireballs at them. But then I went back to the thread and saw that the first burn victim was in the same night that Chandler died.

There are loads of possible mafia/SK candidates in a Friends set-up (Ursula, Janice, Eddy, some of the Friends combined, Gunther, to name a few), but again, I don't see the connection with the killing methods.

I'll leave Cadmiums post for the moment as I need to start cooking.

[Dragon Phoenix]

Alright, now to Cadmium. A good effort, so it deserves a decent reply.

I'd really like to hear a little something more from Cadmium, I can't recall if he is on holiday or not, but I know that he hasn't posted since like page 1 ...

Happy with my vote on Cadmium, given his inactivity.

Here, DP's reason to keep his vote on me was purely based on Nanook's post (which wasn't correct either). Had he looked for inactivity himself, he would have found out that niMic was the inactive one.

I take other factors into account as well. I know you as an active player. I know zilch about niMic.

Simply following someone else seems scummy to me. Also, jumping on any other bandwagon (StevieT92, niMic or Maximus) would have made him look scummier so this was the best way to stay low.

Great. Anything else I would have done would by your standards be scummier than what I did? Talk about a lose-lose situation.

The consequent misspelling perk/park does not give me a good feeling: it sounds like a mistake a scumbag would make who made up a role after some googling. I'm sure the mod would use perk.

After Maximus' claim, DP was the first to question the misspelling which caused the lynch of Gunther. Scum uses inconsistencies in a role claim to question it. Had maximus really googled it, he would have gotten it right for sure. Also noticable is the way DP brings it up, waits for other input and then immediately votes after Nanook said that he was happy with his vote on Maximus.

Not only scum, also townies bring up inconsistencies. Like in this case. What kind of argument is this? My vote had nothing to do with Nanook. REAL scummy would have been if I, knowing as scum that Maximus was probably innocent, to sow the seeds of distrust and then not vote him, so I could claim later that I never voted for the poor guy!

What just happened? Did the doctor save the mafia target, and a vig killed a mafia? Or could a role-blocker be involved? Either way, I guess we have a vig, unless the mafia wanted to kill one of their own.

A vig? A serial killer? A target switcher? Two mafia groups?

This is the one of the two more interesting posts, IMO. niMic suggests a vigilante and DP doesn't state the obvious right away (SK & mafia), instead he lists about every possibility. This post, to me, says that there's a fair chance of DP being the SK trying to confuse the town. It's difficult to explain what I mean exactly, but something in this comment alerted me.

So SK&mafia is obvious? Likely, granted, but why obvious? Why not 2 mafia groups of 2x2? Do you know more than we know?

So we have a claimed doc (Stevie) who survives the night? Hmmmm. Double bluff by the scum? By BOTH killer groups? Or expecting that the other group would do the job?

Only one explanation Dragon Phoenix didn't bring up for Joey being alive is that Joey could be a SK.

Again, a list with possibilities, only this time he forgot to bring up the SK possibility. One wonders why. Is it because he

knows

that's not an option? Then again, mentioning it might attract too much attention (Olio got FOS'ed for it too). 'Hmmmm' is a better way to address it, the others will do the rest (as you can see). Keep the double bluff comment in mind too!

I did not bing up the Joey=SK theory, because it does not make sense to me. I did consider one scenario as listed in one of my posts above, but rejected it. With the same reasoning, both olio and you avoid the theory that Joey is part of a mafia group. Because he is part of YOUr group. Well, I don't believe that, but the reasoning is of a similar level. The double bluff we'll discuss later.

I think he's trying a double bluff with his butchered role claim.

There it is again. Just too many double bluff suggestions for my likings. And again, trying to use an inconsistency in a role claim to question it. And again, first posting to say it's not likely scum would change claim and unvoting, but when it turns out that olio and mepmuff are having serious doubts, jumping right on again (similar to the Maximus lynch).

Two is too many? And since when are we as townies not allowed to question inconsistencies in role claims? In this phase of the game, that is one of the few clues we have to go on. Yes, I noticed that olio and mepmuff were doubting the claim, which did make me rethink the situation.

Vote: Dragon Phoenix

Just a hunch ! That and I've read a lot of other useful things in the thread which helped me deduce some likely innocents. I don't think DP is any of Ross, Rachel or Phoebe. So I think this is the best way to go today.

Well, I'll grant you that you have one thing right: I am indeed not one of the five remaining friends.

[Dragon Phoenix]

Stupid server.

[StevieT92]

unvote

wow, i cant believe this, somehow i accidentally "stopped watching this topic for replies" and completely forgot about it

[mepmuff]

Waiting on niMic and Stevie, who must have something more to add than that.

[halfpint]

Official Vote Count Time Again:

Olio (1, Stewie)
Stewie (2, olio, Dragon Phoenix)
Dragon Phoenix: (1, Cadmium)

Not Voting: NanookTheWolf, niMic, mepmuff, Dragon Phoenix, StevieT92

It's 5 to lynch!

Note: niMic has asked to be replaced due to computer problems. So, I am currently seeking a replacement. Continue on with playing.

[Dragon Phoenix]

Saturday, one week from now, Bambi and I will be going on a four weeks holiday. We don't know yet where. I'll be trying to get on the internet twice a week to keep running the two games I'm modding and checking on this game. In case I'm not on-line by say Thursday 6 May, feel free to replace me, with my apologies.

[Dragon Phoenix]

*kicks server once more*

[olio]

Dangnation. I guess there isn't much happening for a while here

[StevieT92]

I think one or more of the people who immeditaley unvoted stewie after he defended himself are scum, who were trying to get an easy lynch, but once he defended himself, they jumped off to avoid looking scummy (as in, he defended himself decently, so the scum don't want to look like people who lynched a townie, even when most of the people think he was a townie)

[olio]

Who do you suspect most?

[halfpint]

meaning of life 42 replaces niMic immediately.

[mepmuff]

Stevie: You seem very convinced about Stewie's innocence and had that stance pretty much all along. So your last post doens't really add something to this game IMHO.

So, still:

Waiting on niMic and Stevie, who must have something more to add than that.

[Cadmium]

Much to respond to! I'll try to post again today (I have a job too )

Dangnation. I guess there isn't much happening for a while here

Well, you could try and post something useful yourself.

[Cadmium]

I take other factors into account as well. I know you as an active player. I know zilch about niMic.

That's not an excuse. What would you like to know about niMic before you can tell he's lurking. That he only posted once throughout the game at that point seems to suffice, IMO.

Great. Anything else I would have done would by your standards be scummier than what I did? Talk about a lose-lose situation.

I'm not saying that if you would have done something else, it would be scummier than what you did do. I'm merely trying to explain your reasoning for not doing something else:

I have to admit that I didn't see Olio's unvote on niMic, but the principal is the same. There were two (not three) bandwagons going on at the time. Stevie had two votes and Maximus had four. Jumping on one of those

could

draw more attention to you than picking your own target. This is a basic mafia fact. So instead of mixing in those bandwagons, you decided to go after a lurker. Normally, no problem. But you made two "mistakes". You never commented on either ongoing bandwagon and you relied on Nanook's post. It was those two things that made your vote look scummy to me.

Not only scum, also townies bring up inconsistencies. Like in this case. What kind of argument is this? My vote had nothing to do with Nanook. REAL scummy would have been if I, knowing as scum that Maximus was probably innocent, to sow the seeds of distrust and then not vote him, so I could claim later that I never voted for the poor guy!

What kind of argument this is? Well, standing alone, not much. You're right, townies bring up inconsistencies too. But in combination with my other points, this argument is enough to doubt your alignment. I don't believe that your vote had nothing to do with Nanook! Why else would you post your suspicion without voting first and come back

one hour

later to vote for him anyway? That Nanook stated an opinion conform yours in the mean time is just a coincidence, right?

And about sowing the seeds and not voting, I agree. That's exactly why you wouldn't want to do that! Is that what came to your mind in the hour between your posts?

So SK&mafia is obvious? Likely, granted, but why obvious? Why not 2 mafia groups of 2x2? Do you know more than we know?

I believe

obvious

can be used in more than one way. In this case, it is a synonym for

apparent

. And what does

apparent

mean? Well, one of the descriptions is

appearing as such but not necessarily so

.

Granted, there may be a possibility of two mafia groups (which I personally have never seen in a mini before) but why suggest a target switcher? That's just overdoing it. About that last comment: That's exactly the reason why scum would never suggest the apparent. But I guess I'm double bluffing now, right ?

I did not bing up the Joey=SK theory, because it does not make sense to me. I did consider one scenario as listed in one of my posts above, but rejected it. With the same reasoning, both olio and you avoid the theory that Joey is part of a mafia group. Because he is part of YOUr group. Well, I don't believe that, but the reasoning is of a similar level. The double bluff we'll discuss later.

Why would Joey being an SK make less sense than two mafia groups instead of one plus an SK, or even a vigilante or target switcher for that matter?

I don't see how you can compare my reasoning with your example. First of all, Olio and I never posted a list with possibilities like you did twice, both refering to scum division (it is quite interesting that your first list doesn't exclude one scum group, at a time there still was doubt by at least one, where your second list does, indicating that you either were in doubt yourself, which I doubt, or tried to confuse the rest). We never left a feasable explanation out for we never tried to come up with all kinds of scum theories. Second, I believe I was the first one to suggest that Stevie could be mafia, since he is Italian. And last but not least, if Joey is mafia together with Olio and me, there would at least be a three person and a two person mafia group, or a four person mafia group and an SK. The reasoning is completely different.

Again, maybe this point by itself doesn't seem that strong, but combined with the other reasoning, it makes sense. Fact is that you didn't suggest it and that Olio did and got FOS'ed for it.

Two is too many? And since when are we as townies not allowed to question inconsistencies in role claims? In this phase of the game, that is one of the few clues we have to go on. Yes, I noticed that olio and mepmuff were doubting the claim, which did make me rethink the situation.

Of course town questions inconsistencies too, how else would scum make use of it to get people lynched? It's the fact that this situation reminds me too much of the Maximus lynch and we all know how that ended up. On both occasions, the reason for the lynch is an inconsistency and on both occasions, you didn't (re)vote before it was made public that others had doubts as well.

Well, I'll grant you that you have one thing right: I am indeed not one of the five remaining friends.

Which for me is all the more reason to doubt your alignment. With at least two or three scum left, the chance of you being one of them is very high in itself. Adding my interpretation of your behaviour makes you the best choice for today, IMO.

[Dragon Phoenix]

I was about to start to post a detailed reply until I noticed:

Is that what came to your mind in the hour between your posts?

This to me mind is a deliberate and false attempt to convince the others. As you know better than anyone else, the time between the two posts correspond to the time in Europe of preparing and eating dinner - as I announced. Those in different time zones might not appreciate this.

Unvote Stewie
Still FOS Stewie
Vote Cadmium

[Dragon Phoenix]

*rapes server*

[StevieT92]

Who do you suspect most?

I'm tending to think that DP is scum, fist he says "he is happy with his vote" (on stewie) and then unvotes about 4 posts before the mass unvote of stewie, and then revotes after everyone has unvoted, and then unvotes again.

it looks like he is scum who needs to put his vote somewhere, so he picks stewie, but he doesn't want to get caught in the lynch of a townie, so he unvotes whenever a lynch is near.

[NanookTheWolf]

Vote: Dragon Phoenix

.. I tend to like the arguments that Cadmium has placed, and DP's answers (and lack of) have convinced me enough to place my vote.

I have another that I am suspicious of atm as well, but I'd rather wait til tomorrow to discuss more about it. Let's just say that if I wait til tomorrow that my argument will stand better then what it would/has today.

[Cadmium]

Is that what came to your mind in the hour between your posts?

This to me mind is a deliberate and false attempt to convince the others.

Really ? Then explain to me what the difference is between my question to you and your following question to me:

Do you know more than we know?

As you know better than anyone else, the time between the two posts correspond to the time in Europe of preparing and eating dinner - as I announced. Those in different time zones might not appreciate this.

I suggest you read my previous post again. We were discussing you stating your suspicions on Maximus without voting and then only one hour later voting anyway. I was refering to the one hour between post 83 and 85, not the three and a half hours between post 179 and 180. And even if I was, what does it matter what your activities were? For all I care, you took a little nap. The point is that you didn't vote at first but when Nanook posted that he was happy with his vote you did vote (all this within the hour). If your vote was not related to Nanook's comment, as you claimed, why not vote right away? Why wait an hour? It does not make sense to me, not the slightest.

But a nice attempt to change the subject and throw the suspicion my way .

[Dragon Phoenix]

Apparently I misinterpreted the post. I clearly do not have enough time right now to play the game this detailed, which is not my style anyway. BTW, the first quote in your post leaves out the smilie I attached - and thus does not convey the meaning it had.

I have seen enough groundless bandwagons gather force to know when to stop trying to stop them. At least you are not lynching a power role.