Open 811 - Lovers and Losers (New Game+) [Game Over]

[RationalMadman]

Also VFP. If Llama can only be scum with RM/Ana, then flipping Llama as scum ends the game, yes?

Whereas if you think RM/Ana can be scum with both of them, then we're just repeating this argument of Bambi vs Llama on Day 3.

If we're right we have 4 confirmed town to discuss and an entire game day.
RM/Ana has more of a chance to flip scum than Llama. That's just how it is.

How? How is this actually logical at all? Do you understand Bambi herself engineered her self-vote such that if I didn't unvote it forced me and Ana to be boxed into never being a clear pair? That isn't increased probability that is engineered forced confirmation bias.

[Kerset]

oh i know, because llama said in PT that he can outtalk bambi tomorrow as long as it is you who dies today not him

[RationalMadman]

oh i know, because llama said in PT that he can outtalk bambi tomorrow as long as it is you who dies today not him

is this you talking to me? You think tha'ts why I'm scared of VFP voting Llama? No. You and Bingle are both here to scum-pair-hammer him and win instantly.

[RationalMadman]

forced bullshit to smear me as scum for fearing Llama elim

[Kerset]

vfp DO NOT VOTE LLAMA

please listen to me please, tell me what you are basing this on Tbone.

VFP DO NOT VOTE LLAMA, you literally carried this game by not voting Llama before just tell me the reason you think it's me, tell the full reason

[RationalMadman]

You are slipping very hard now Kerset. It is not scummy that I am scared of Llama elim.

[Kerset]

You should be afraid that we eliminate

you

.

[RationalMadman]

Yes, but I should be more terrified of VFP voting Llama here casually not realising it's an instahammer via you and bingle.

[VFP]

VFP DO NOT VOTE LLAMA, you literally carried this game by not voting Llama before just tell me the reason you think it's me, tell the full reason

I don't think it's you.
But if I have to lim you or Llama my chances of winning are increased with you.

[Bambi Jay]

You should be afraid that we eliminate

you

.

Yeah because if he was town his death would instantly lose us the game.

He ain't afraid of that tho.

[VFP]

VFP DO NOT VOTE LLAMA, you literally carried this game by not voting Llama before just tell me the reason you think it's me, tell the full reason

Why are you not saying 'do not vote me'? If you are town then voting you will also end the game.

Because me voting town Llama is a loss for town RM...

[yessiree]

VC 2.23

With 8 votes, it takes 5 to eliminate.

Bambi Jay (3)

- LlamaFluff, RationalMadman, Anastasia

RationalMadman (3)

- Bingle, Kerset, Bambi Jay

LlamaFluff (1)

- T-Bone

Note voting - VFP

Day 2 ends in (expired on 2021-06-02 16:00:00)

[VFP]

I don't think it's worth me repeating why Llama is correct here.
There is no other way to explain it.

I think I just vote Bambi today but I'm going to give T-Bone the respect to change my mind here before doing anything.

[RationalMadman]

VOTE: llama but we need 5, so i will move if you insist

Eh.

I'll trust you. I think you're wrong, but I'll trust you. I frankly don't have the WIM to argue the TBone/Bambi/VFP team I think it is anyway.

VOTE: Llama

VFP, prove yourself conftown or win the game please.

How can Bingle justify this vote actually?

Like actually look at this vote and what Bingle risked if he were Town (which I know for certain he is not).

[Bambi Jay]

I don't think it's worth me repeating why Llama is correct here.
There is no other way to explain it.

I think I just vote Bambi today but I'm going to give T-Bone the respect to change my mind here before doing anything.

VFP no. If you do that before we get Ration or Llama to 4 I die to plurality instead. Then we LOSE.

We've moved over to Ration and Ana. Voting me kills town. You'll have more time to argue with me and them day 3. Please.

[Bingle]

How can Bingle justify this vote actually?

Because Kerset is sure and instead of having a pissing match about who is right I decided to trust in the person who is to me conftown. Reads are the weakest area of my town game, and I can admit that.

More importantly, and this is hilarious: My alignment is now irrelevant to the game. I have put the game in a position where either we win the VT 50/50 or we lose. You and I? We can't endgame, because TBone is conftown. If I was scum here, I just threw away any chance I had of winning the lover pool to not meaningfully impact the 1v1 in the VT pool. ScumMe could have instead waited until deadline and hoped to quietly quickhammer the person who wasn't my buddy, but I didn't do that.

[RationalMadman]

How can Bingle justify this vote actually?

Because Kerset is sure and instead of having a pissing match about who is right I decided to trust in the person who is to me conftown. Reads are the weakest area of my town game, and I can admit that.

More importantly, and this is hilarious: My alignment is now irrelevant to the game. I have put the game in a position where either we win the VT 50/50 or we lose. You and I? We can't endgame, because TBone is conftown. If I was scum here, I just threw away any chance I had of winning the lover pool to not meaningfully impact the 1v1 in the VT pool. ScumMe could have instead waited until deadline and hoped to quietly quickhammer the person who wasn't my buddy, but I didn't do that.

Not exactly. If you believed that VFP would hammer Llama, it was indeed a worthwhile gamble and you had the fallback where the dynamic of me, ana and Llama vs you, Kerset and Bambi is just forced.

Don't for a second pretend you didn't consider VFP hammering Llama as viable, it is the entire reason it was worth for you to do as Scum. You're painting a picture of 'fruitless risk' from scum POV but the fruit was VFP hammering Llama. I happened to be offline, not posting here at all and Ana barely posts at all, so you and Kerset saw a perfect opportunity where you felt we couldn't fight back and hoped VFP would take the bait.

[T-Bone]

Also VFP. If Llama can only be scum with RM/Ana, then flipping Llama as scum ends the game, yes?

Whereas if you think RM/Ana can be scum with both of them, then we're just repeating this argument of Bambi vs Llama on Day 3.

At this point tell me what you want me to say or do. I don't understand why it isn't obvious to you.

Llama is not scum, look at the depth of Llama's posts vs Bambi's, just observe it. Llama has had more logic all game, it's a fact.

Llama has twisted logic and outright lied about what is happening in the game to proclaim himself town.

[Bingle]

Not exactly. If you believed that VFP would hammer Llama, it was indeed a worthwhile gamble and you had the fallback where the dynamic of me, ana and Llama vs you, Kerset and Bambi is just forced.

Don't for a second pretend you didn't consider VFP hammering Llama as viable, it is the entire reason it was worth for you to do as Scum. You're painting a picture of 'fruitless risk' from scum POV but the fruit was VFP hammering Llama. I happened to be offline, not posting here at all and Ana barely posts at all, so you and Kerset saw a perfect opportunity where you felt we couldn't fight back and hoped VFP would take the bait.

Why isn't Me/Kerset/Llama a possibility from your perspective?

[VFP]

Let's face it, I had RM and Ana as my favoured scum.
The whole "I wouldn't do it as scum because I lose" is irrelevant. T-Bone has also been pretty set on Bambi town all game too.
I suspect scum Bingle would play to T-Bone over me expecting me to just follow T-Bone given day 1.

[T-Bone]

I don't think it's worth me repeating why Llama is correct here.
There is no other way to explain it.

I think I just vote Bambi today but I'm going to give T-Bone the respect to change my mind here before doing anything.

I mean...read my posts lol

[Bambi Jay]

Tbone will you please vote Ration then? If you trust us and we've basically figured it out, your vote now will save us in plurality.

[RationalMadman]

Not exactly. If you believed that VFP would hammer Llama, it was indeed a worthwhile gamble and you had the fallback where the dynamic of me, ana and Llama vs you, Kerset and Bambi is just forced.

Don't for a second pretend you didn't consider VFP hammering Llama as viable, it is the entire reason it was worth for you to do as Scum. You're painting a picture of 'fruitless risk' from scum POV but the fruit was VFP hammering Llama. I happened to be offline, not posting here at all and Ana barely posts at all, so you and Kerset saw a perfect opportunity where you felt we couldn't fight back and hoped VFP would take the bait.

Why isn't Me/Kerset/Llama

a possibility from your perspective?

Nice slip.

Bambi literally voted herself, Ana voted her on top of me. You and Kerset were both online posting and not hammering as a pair on Bambi despite Bambi herself having 3 votes on her. Then even though Bambi unvoted herself, she still had 3 votes because Ana had voted her. Bambi clearly was watching and baiting ready to unvote and had picked a time for the gambit where she was ready to react (but that's stupid as a pair can block a reacter if they are faster due to coordination).

Are you actually joking right now?

[Bingle]

I suspect scum Bingle would play to T-Bone over me expecting me to just follow T-Bone given day 1.

I can outright tell you that scum Bingle would have hedged his bets and kept the mechanically superior capability of winning through the lover pool.

[RationalMadman]

I suspect scum Bingle would play to T-Bone over me expecting me to just follow T-Bone given day 1.

I can outright tell you that scum Bingle would have hedged his bets and kept the mechanically superior capability of winning through the lover pool.

Yet, he didn't. Perhaps because he thought of the mechanical benefit of instantly winning with Llama elim via VFP hammer.