Mini 1632 - Zar's Holiday Bash - Mardi Gras Showdown - Over!

[Garmr]

Like, I'm fine with the fact that I was wrong with my reads, and I'm fine with the fact that we disagree on Garmr's play


but he accused me of cheating by saying I replaced out to gain a tactical advantage


that is beyond offensive to me, and pisses me off more than anything else that was said in the thread

I don't know you to well we just had one game together and I seen others do it so I just assume the worst in everyone.

[Garmr]

AC is a fine example of this he claimed vanilla town and replaced out and he was scum.

[Aeronaut]

He really should have not claimed instead and then replaced. That way Titus could claim something

[SB]

Tbh looking back thors had some really big reactions to you and titus's lynch compared to when others were offered. It only becomes obvious after the game is done and everything is known through.

^This. My Day 5 was pretty much in confirmation bias mode for the entire time. Sorry for that serra.

At least I got Aero and acfan, although I kind of forgot the latter existed at first :V

[elleheathen]

Glad I'm retired.

[Garmr]

If Titus claimed something she probably would of been lynched anyway I had quite a few supporters and I thrive to making to mylo.

Tbh I when I had my hider role I was focusing on survival for the first few days. Using my hides to find people who could be scum and if they were town would be likely mislynched. I decided silverspawn would likely be mislynch material if he was town because of the way he acted and elle was so focused on me she would have contributed nothing once I flipped town and put in a real bad spot.

[elleheathen]

You underestimate how good I am at towning it up.

[Garmr]

Well I had your back just in case :p.

[droog]

Good game guys
Sorry for lurking out before dying
Thanks zar

[Aeronaut]

I did really enjoy the game as well. Hopefully it helped my scum game out a bit experience-wise

[Thor665]

Tbh looking back thors had some really big reactions to you and titus's lynch compared to when others were offered. It only becomes obvious after the game is done and everything is known through. Anyway I want to hear what Zar thought of the game. It must of been interesting to him.

It has often been said to me that my scum play is obvious - albeit it is said from DeadQTs.
There may be some truth to that - maybe I am obvious once you have enough pieces of the puzzle.
I'm content with that, really, as it doesn't seem to affect how easy I am to catch yet

@Aero - no worries, this was a bit of a derpfest from the get go, I feel good getting as deep as we did

*

And when I made it a point to say that whoever of us between Garmr and I was alive today would vote whoever of SB/serra we'd left alive, Garmr didn't commit to that as I had - so I was thinking it might be a factor for Thorscum to kill Garmr over me.

Didn't even cross my mind - he was blatantly more obv. town than you and also was more involved than you. i kept you because you looked weaker and were less confirmed.

*

And Thor coming into the day as if I wasn't conftown didn't sit well.

I stand by that as good town play, on my part.
Yes, I'm aware I was scum - still.

He really should have not claimed instead and then replaced. That way Titus could claim something

Agreed - that was a weird choice. I tried to spin it as derp town simply because...well, it *was* hideously anti-scum play if he was scum.

[Aeronaut]

I actually can't believe people discussed my venge claim for as long as they did. That was so far from legitimate-looking

[Garmr]

I actually can't believe people discussed my venge claim for as long as they did. That was so far from legitimate-looking

I know it was obviously fake.

[SB]

I actually can't believe people discussed my venge claim for as long as they did. That was so far from legitimate-looking

I only hesitated because if you were actually town, it would've been gg as you would've shot me in the face.

[serrapaladin]

A vengeful claim never saves you from being lynched, but sometimes it can delay it.

Scum seemed pretty boned after leaving garmr alive to get 2 clears, so it's pretty impressive you guys got into an ambiguous lylo. Killing garmr N1 would have given a pretty easy scum win, I would imagine.

[Garmr]

A vengeful claim never saves you from being lynched, but sometimes it can delay it.

Scum seemed pretty boned after leaving garmr alive to get 2 clears, so it's pretty impressive you guys got into an ambiguous lylo. Killing garmr N1 would have given a pretty easy scum win, I would imagine.

Ive faked claimed hider as town before so it might of made them more cautious lol.

[Aeronaut]

A vengeful claim never saves you from being lynched, but sometimes it can delay it.

Scum seemed pretty boned after leaving garmr alive to get 2 clears, so it's pretty impressive you guys got into an ambiguous lylo. Killing garmr N1 would have given a pretty easy scum win, I would imagine.

Realtalk confession about that claim

Spoiler:

It Maaaaaay have been a drunk-posting. I just remember waking up the next day with a headache, and having no real recollection of posting it. Then I just went with it.

So... yea.

A vengeful claim never saves you from being lynched, but sometimes it can delay it.

Scum seemed pretty boned after leaving garmr alive to get 2 clears, so it's pretty impressive you guys got into an ambiguous lylo. Killing garmr N1 would have given a pretty easy scum win, I would imagine.

Ive faked claimed hider as town before so it might of made them more cautious lol.

Yea, we actually thought you were faking that claim so hard, and that you were like a mason or something.

[Aeronaut]

Oh, and SB I don't know if I mentioned, you were definitely Town MVP along with Elle. Like if you hadn't replaced in, we'd have won pretty quickly, because your slot had been scummy as fuck

[Garmr]

can I see the scum qt

[Zar]

Tbh looking back thors had some really big reactions to you and titus's lynch compared to when others were offered. It only becomes obvious after the game is done and everything is known through. Anyway I want to hear what Zar thought of the game. It must of been interesting to him.

About what aspect of the game?

I think the setup played well and in the end there was still a chance for the scum to win. A 1-Shot hider wouldn't have been too bad either; a Roleblocker wouldn't have interacted well with the Hider because NAR lets hide resolve first. For a second, the hider was almost wiped out, as Garmr was planning to Hide behind elle and Aeronaut almost NK'd elle's slot when he was considering killing Madonna. I was fairly demotivated to write flavor on day one until I decided to put up the baby sloth because the idea of having to keep constantly searching for replacements because some people simply abandoned the slots AFTER replacing in was a bit downbringing plus the few rule breachings and scream matches that this game spun around. As things calmed down, I got back on track writing some flavor for it.

I think town took a hit with the shenanigans of Day One and was fairly disorganized well into the end. To their advantage, Garmr's play with the hider let them organize themselves a little better. I think killing droog over TSO could've been a scum mistake. As far as design, I considered a Mafia Ascetic, but decided against it because it might have given the Mafia an unfair edge since it would have thrown in a misleading result for the hider. In addition, the hider had fairly big odds of "clearing" a mason or dying behind a goon, and the scum would have been given a double result if they targeted the hider's target, so all in all I do agree with it being balanced.

acfan was in the right track with his Role Hunting, I think they would have found TSO was a PR if they had checked him over serrapaladin.

[Thor665]

I was honest in my opinions that I thought the setup was screwy and badly balanced. I consider a potential 4 town clears on Day 2 in a game of this size pretty terrible at face value.

[serrapaladin]

Yeah, but that's the extreme case. Had your buddies and reinoe shot correctly, d3 could have been mylo. The hider adds a fair amount of swing, but only amounts to the same utility as roughly another mason (for a 1shot, and a second shot doesn't tend to help much unless played well).

[Garmr]

Yeah, but that's the extreme case. Had your buddies and reinoe shot correctly, d3 could have been mylo. The hider adds a fair amount of swing, but only amounts to the same utility as roughly another mason (for a 1shot, and

a second shot doesn't tend to help much unless played well

).

Is that a compliment.

[Thor665]

Yeah, but that's the extreme case. Had your buddies and reinoe shot correctly, d3 could have been mylo. The hider adds a fair amount of swing, but only amounts to the same utility as roughly another mason (for a 1shot, and a second shot doesn't tend to help much unless played well).

Is it an extreme case?

Barring a choice to claim - a Hider played even half decently can get to the night phase.
If he draws a shot for looking town - it is pro-town.
If he hides behind town - it is pro-town.
If he hides behind scum - it is pro-town.
If he hides behind a Mason - it is arguably pro-scum in a loose way.

Basically, to avoid the situation you deem as extreme;
Scum have to shoot a Mason or the hide target and not shoot the Hider.
Hider has to target a Scum or Mason.

Functionally, town has two chances at achieving this - increasing their odds of it happening.
I think Hider is literally one of the most powerful town investigative roles in the game, and I also think Masons are one of the most potent roles in the game for pro-town play.
I'm pretty sure the math favors my 'extreme' possibility as happening more than 50% of the time - which...makes it not extreme.

But, let me maybe come at this in another direction - would you consider this same setup balanced if the role was not Hider, but a 2 shot Cop who was confirmed to not allow Godfathers to affect his ability and was investigation immune to the Rolecop?

[Thor665]

I mean, just off the top of my head, but barring the Day 2 kill - was there a single day where scum didn't kill a confirmed town player?
Because that is not scum getting to kill who they want - that is scum trying to play catchup.
And that is why the setup is imbalanced.
Scum should have the right to control their kills - that is half the power of scum.