Mafia 58: Ready Salted - Game over!


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Post Post #2075 (ISO) » Thu Aug 09, 2007 9:23 pm

Post by KaleiÐoscøpe »

scotmany12 wrote:Thats ridiculous scope. Panzer's first post in a while, and he ignores basically everything and simply votes me, in what simply appears to be omgus. He does not comment on anything that has occured after the last time he has posted. I don't see how you can defend him when he does something like that.
I'm not defending him. I'm simply answering your question. I don't always eleborate on my votes as well. That might be a scummy thing to do, yep, but sometimes feelings lead you to scum, which you cannot describe.

Besides, panzer's first post this day consisted of a non-eleborated vote for me. Go figure.
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Post Post #2076 (ISO) » Fri Aug 10, 2007 6:05 am

Post by Battle Mage »

page 82. nearly done. :)
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Survived to the end and won - 11
Nightkilled - 10
Survived to the end and lost - 6
Day-elimmed by majority - 4

winrate as scum: 78%
winrate as town: 55%
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Post Post #2077 (ISO) » Fri Aug 10, 2007 7:11 am

Post by Battle Mage »

The ‘Scope’ Files


First things to address-the early wagon on Livingod. He had accumulated 3 pretty insignificant votes up to this point, and K-Scope jumped on with a reasonable case. Seems pretty genuine enough.

However later, Livingod provides an explanation for his actions. K-Scope responds by placing further confidence in his vote. Now if anything, his conviction at Livingod being scum might suggest bussing. After all, K-Scope isn’t the sort of person who suffers fools gladly, and I wouldn’t be atall surprised that he decided to bus Livingod, in order to get some long term security.

In post 151 he continues his staunch attack of Livingod, whilst revealing his desperation to end the day quickly, with the likely intention of getting on with killing some protown players.

Later he requests a Livingod-claim. A reasonable request. As a GF, Livingod would possibly have been able to blag any reasonable claim, but really this is a null tell.

Day 2 begins. K-Scope starts by joining a BW on me, with absolutely no explanation. Presumably looking for a scapegoat after the day before.

Post 245-K-Scope again deliberately refrains from recognising the concept of bussing-suggesting that his pressure on Livingod confirmed him as protown. In the same post, he BW’s Theo, with, wait for it, NO reason given. :p

Post again, over 4 pages later, with more fluff.
Then, as soon as the wagon on Theo begins to deteriorate, he switches his vote back to me, following the same move from Riverwind.

Protown points to K-Scope on the same page, when Yellowbounder (later to be Fonz-scum) adds his vote to the K-Scope wagon. Its hard to conceive so much bussing within a scumgroup…

However, as the wagon on K-Scope grows, he chooses to OMGUS FoS, ONLY YellowBounder. Why? There were several people who had joined the wagon. Yellowbounder had provided more reasoning than any of them. So why just single him out? Similarly, it is perplexing as to why he only gave an FoS. I’ve never known K-Scope to be conservative with his vote (rofl) but he didn’t want to actually vote for his scumbuddy, seems like the only explanation, though obviously, should he have died, YellowBounder would gain the same protown points he had, for bussing a scumbag.

Lol just an interesting point to mention is that in post 416, Mole-scum, votes for YellowBounder-scum, without a great deal of content. This proves not only that the scum in this game have an affinity with bussing, but also perhaps that Mole was somehow angry with YellowBounder-maybe because he pushed the K-Scope wagon?
Post 446, K-Scope proves that OMGUS really is his sole purpose in this game.
Post 448, K-Scope hints that the mafia shouldn’t be seeking a second scum-lynch in a row. This seems to be consistent with the above picture.

Post 454-OH THE IRONY. :D

Nothing else particularly scummy from Scope (mainly due to confessed lurking while the Lowell wagon builds up) until he receives some pressure, and returns solely to defend himself.

Later he pops up to say that he now has 2 more suspects: Twito and Cheesefan (both confirmed town). I ask him his reasons, and he deliberately ignores me.
His next post is the one where he joins the N9V wagon, just before deadline, which basically acts as a decision to No-Lynch (I know we have had this discussion before, but it does still have some significance). Obviously, whilst K-Scopes vote was UNLIKELY to result in a lynch before DL wherever it was placed, he didn’t know that, and he made a clear choice to not lynch Lowell. In light of Lowell coming up town, this is a relatively strong town-tell, but tbh, the impression I get of K-Scope is that his sole care is himself. If it meant maintaining his image within the town, he would stop a mislynch for it.

Next morning, Lowell has been killed. A whole host of reasons link this to K-Scope. Perhaps his reason for not joining the Lowell wagon was that he couldn’t validate with enough reason-making NKing him the optimum choice. Or, more likely, his scumbuddies were pissed off that he cost them a lynch, and killed Lowell anyway.

Post 846-Al_Ko (scum) lies to protect K-Scope, from a reasonably quick wagon at the start of the day. Later he changes his tune completely, and puts further pressure on K-Scope. Note, no vote yet though.

Something else of note, is that Scotmany also comes to K-Scopes defence, stating that the scum are trying to set him up.
Again Al_Ko scum tries to subtly derail the K-Scope wagon.

K-Scopes response to his BW is that he DIDN’T REALISE THAT IF WE DIDN’T GET A MAJORITY, WE WOULDN’T LYNCH. I mean, COME ON! K-Scope had been playing Mafia here for longer than me, and I think a newb who has been here a week realises what happens at a deadline.
Oh and he OMGUS votes me. Lol

Post 886-K-Scope backtracks, stating that he voluntarily took us to No-Lynch bcause he didn’t want to hammer Lowell.

8 posts later, he changes his story again, back to the ‘I don’t know how a deadline works’ BS.

K-Scope then changes his 3rd suspect from Cheesefan to Panzer.
Post 1007 by Panzer is an absolute gem. If you don’t reread anything else, you should read that.

K-Scope pops up again a little later, solely to say that he might selfvote, just to see what happens. :o

Aside from taunts, K-Scopes posting for a while is basically fluff.

Page 44-Al Ko again provides an excuse for K-Scopes actions on the previous day, using a WIFOM argument.

Ah here’s the bit where we lost a lot of posts due to the site going down.

Theo BWs K-Scope, before K-Scope selfvotes, with the ‘giving up’ scumtell.
Just as the K-Scope bandwagon increases to the point of being the dominant one, Al Ko requests replacement. I don’t blame him. If I was Al Ko at that point, already a GF down, and with another buddy about to be lynched, its not looking good.
Of course its possible that this is merely a coincidence. But I don’t think so.

Post 1171 is a good one to reference aswell. K-Scopes bandwagon is still growing at this point, and Al Ko (despite having just requested replacement) takes one more stab at derailing the wagon. I recommend you read the post for yourself. Basically he tried his hardest to derail the Scope wagon, while pushing a lynch on N9V.

The Fonz replaces Al Ko, and seems to take a slightly different stance towards him. Of the 3 lynch candidates for the day, Fonz comments in favour of Theo, and casts suspicion onto K-Scope and N9V. Possibly a towntell for K-Scope, only it should be noted, that despite picking apart K-Scopes posts, Fonz never votes for him. Rather he joins the N9V wagon, thus ensuring that K-Scope was not lynched.
No Lynch occurs.

Next day, I begin with a vote for N9V. Yeah I know, I suck. :p
Anyway, K-Scope immediately hops on, and then N9V does a ‘K-Scope’ and self-votes. After a bit of discussion, The Fonz also hops on the BW.

In post 1307 K-Scope maintains the image of scum looking for consistency points, whilst occasionally taking time out to run up some townies.

He continues pushing N9V, even when the wagon stalls. Post 1473, K-Scope also admits the inherent weaknesses in his case against me (which is the same now as it was then). He continues pushing the N9V-lynch, despite saying that I am scummier.

1592-K-Scope once again shows his opportunism, and evident desperation to get some mislynches.

On Page 65 he pops up to make a sarcy comment at Twito, but neglects to answer the questions that has been posed to everyone regarding their suspicions.

Post 1636-Scope makes some unfathomable comment about me and Kelly. I think he’s trying to infer that we are both scum, but I guess he’ll have to explain that himself.

Post 1652-Oh the irony! K-Scope criticises Panzer for not making a productive vote. Lol
The K-Scope goes on to defend those who started the N9V wagon-including Fonz, also commenting that the wagon needs more speed.

Post 1696 just gives me a bad vibe. Its basically K-Scopes excuse for BWing N9V. Nothing concrete about it that makes it scummy, just a vibe. Read it for yourselves.

He comes back a bit later with more WIFOMy humour.

Then Fonz appears, to say that he would accept a Scot-lynch, but would prefer a Panzer/BM lynch. Completely ignored K-Scope who was his top suspect not long before.

K-Scope then pops up to try and derail the growing Panzer wagon. YB doesn’t vote Panzer immediately, which he did do with N9V. Could indicate that either YB actually learnt from his mistakes, or perhaps that he doesn’t want to bus another buddy.

Usually Fonz comes down hard on lurkers, but he completely ignores K-Scope at this point. Fonz foses YB-distancing. It seems unlikely that he would be pressurising all 3 of his scumbuddies simultaneously.

Meanwhile K-Scope continues to lurk, and is one of the only players not to comment atall on YB-scum. When he does show up, it is only to try pathetically to derail the YB wagon, and lynch me instead.

Next day, and TCS posts first, with a guilty result on Fonz. Either K-Scope is exceptionally lazy, ignorant town, who doesn’t bother to read his games, or he is simply lazy scum who was past caring, since YB died.
Regardless, he doesn’t comment on The Fonz, instead putting his vote on me again.

Post 1888-K-Scope admits again that his sole purpose in the game (aside from BWing relentlessly) is to play for consistency points.

Only when The Fonz claims, does K-Scope react, and when I say react, I mean vote for him immediately. Lol
This could well be because he didn’t think Fonz would be believed-as at the time, Kelly had already voiced doubts over it.

Page 78-IH gets lynched. In K-Scopes favour, he didn’t join the wagon on IH, keeping his vote on Fonz. Of course, he only posted twice during the course of the day, so its possible that he didn’t notice.
Both myself and K-Scope hop onto the Fonz wagon, the latter with no reason given, though to be fair, it was pretty obvious.
However, in post 1970, he again makes it clear that he wants to get the lynch over with quickly. Sound familiar? It’s the exact same thing he said when bussing Livingod!

Post 1979-K-Scope clearly doesn’t care who dies as long as it isn’t him.

Post 2017- K-Scope reiterates this selfish view, expressing the benefits of another mislynch, which pretty much confirms my view that we are in LyLo.
In the next post he changes his view, in an attempt to fit in with the views of Theo (confirmed town). Not only that, but his arguments backing his views are gradually making less and less sense. Lol

2026-more of the consistency rubbish.

Post 2032 pretty much sums K-Scope up. His case on me amounts to 2 words: “Defended Godfather”. I explained why this reason is total BS 2 posts afterwards fyi.

2047-Finally we get some honesty from K-Scope. He does not have a case against me. He merely has a vibe that I am scum. He now seems to stand by a BM-Scot scumpair, but I wouldn’t put any emphasis onto that. Very few posts ago, K-Scope ‘thought’ Panzer was scum. He also accuses me of failing to elaborate on any of my suspicions. I hope this satiates him.
Then the funny part. He accuses me of ‘Stalling, so I can fit in with the views of others’. Hilariously ironic, seeing as he just did the same thing with Theo. Interesting that he considers me to be the scummiest person, yet he is happy to lynch Scot today, when we are at LyLo. This too wreaks of scumminess.

I may need a translator for post 2050, but I think K-Scope is saying that he doesn’t want to elaborate on his suspicions… :?

His reasoning for choosing Scot-scum over Panzer-scum in post 2060 is BS.

Note also that K-Scopes rate of posting seems to have increased since we are at LyLo.

Anyway, that’s my analysis of K-Scope. I’ll admit, there are some weaknesses in there. I’d like to think I’ve done a fairly balanced analysis of him. However, I’m ever confident that he is scum. That’s not to say he’s the only player I’m suspicious of. However, we are almost certainly at LyLo today, and letting K-Scope survive would be idiotic…

Vote: K-Scope


Something else i will note however, is K-Scopes attitude towards Panzer and Scot. I'm finding it very hard to see which of those 2 could be his scumbuddy. Still, i guess we'll deal with that tomorrow.

BM
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2020 Stats - 31 completed games:

Survived to the end and won - 11
Nightkilled - 10
Survived to the end and lost - 6
Day-elimmed by majority - 4

winrate as scum: 78%
winrate as town: 55%
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Post Post #2078 (ISO) » Fri Aug 10, 2007 8:03 am

Post by KaleiÐoscøpe »

Lol... I really like your analysis, BM. It looks like you are more trying to convince yourself that I'm scum instead of holding yourself to the facts, probably because I'm onto you all game. To me, it destroys the objectivity in this post, meaning the post is merely good as an explanation for your vote, instead of a general reread on me for other players. I don't know if that was the purpose, but that's how I see it.
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Post Post #2079 (ISO) » Fri Aug 10, 2007 9:00 am

Post by PJ. »

I nominate the lynch of myself.
Unvote, Vote:Me.
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Post Post #2080 (ISO) » Fri Aug 10, 2007 9:47 am

Post by scotmany12 »

What the hell are you trying to pull panzer? In my eye, this makes me set on my vote for you because if you were town, I would not see you doing this. You nomination yourself for a lynch in what may be a lylo situation is not a pro town play.
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Post Post #2081 (ISO) » Fri Aug 10, 2007 10:02 am

Post by Kelly Chen »

What's the problem Panzer?
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Post Post #2082 (ISO) » Fri Aug 10, 2007 11:13 am

Post by KaleiÐoscøpe »

He says he's having personal problems in another game I'm playing with him (werewolves mini). I think that explains it.

I'd still like to see BM lynched, as my doubts between Scot and Panzer are too risky atm
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Post Post #2083 (ISO) » Fri Aug 10, 2007 11:18 am

Post by Kelly Chen »

Well, I'll assume that's the best answer I'll get...

vote: scotmany
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Post Post #2084 (ISO) » Fri Aug 10, 2007 11:28 am

Post by scotmany12 »

After looking at werewolves mini, he still did not vote for himself. If he is having personel problems, then he should ask for a replacement. I'm sorry, but I'm not buying that reasoning. He actually claimed in the other game. In this one he simply votes for himself.

Kelly your vote for me is not smart. I'm interested in why most of you find panzer to be more townish over me.
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Post Post #2085 (ISO) » Fri Aug 10, 2007 12:30 pm

Post by Kelly Chen »

If I don't vote you I run the risk of looking extremely stupid if you endgame me. Maybe Amb did totally lie and bluff and
try to bring the mod into it
but that is not the safe bet.

Panzer looks town because of the way scum seemed to aggressively go after him. As far as just his overall play, the traits that I found to be town about you Panzer seems to have had in higher doses. It is really hard for me to imagine scum playing like Panzer did.
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Post Post #2086 (ISO) » Fri Aug 10, 2007 12:55 pm

Post by KaleiÐoscøpe »

I'm wondering if we will get a good lynch today, considering people, such as myself, are quite stubborn with their votes...
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Post Post #2087 (ISO) » Fri Aug 10, 2007 1:21 pm

Post by scotmany12 »

Alright then. How bout scope and bm vote for me and just end this day. I don't see this day going much longer, and I don't know how to convince people that I am town. Lets just hope there is only one scum left.
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Post Post #2088 (ISO) » Fri Aug 10, 2007 9:36 pm

Post by Battle Mage »

[quote="KaleiÐoscøpe"]Lol... I really like your analysis, BM. It looks like you are more trying to convince yourself that I'm scum instead of holding yourself to the facts, probably because I'm onto you all game. To me, it destroys the objectivity in this post, meaning the post is merely good as an explanation for your vote, instead of a general reread on me for other players. I don't know if that was the purpose, but that's how I see it.[/quote]

actually your right-i was as much trying to confirm my vote on you in my own mind, as i was trying to convince others that you are scum. people like Theo, and Kelly to a lesser extent, have been providing detailed analyses of the game at different stages. Consider this MY contribution to the game.

I really don't know why Panzer selfvoted, unless it was an attempt to save Scope from getting lynched.

For the same reason i don't like Scotmany's idea. We are at frigging LYLO folks! If you are town, why the hell would you self vote at this stage. You should be trying your damn hardest to actually find us a scumbag, so we have a shot at winning. Fyi, i won't be joining a Scotmany wagon today. He's not been exactly squeaky clean, but he's nowhere near as scummy as K-Scope. We need to hit scum today, and i won't settle for second best.

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Survived to the end and won - 11
Nightkilled - 10
Survived to the end and lost - 6
Day-elimmed by majority - 4

winrate as scum: 78%
winrate as town: 55%
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Post Post #2089 (ISO) » Fri Aug 10, 2007 11:54 pm

Post by KaleiÐoscøpe »

actually your right-i was as much trying to confirm my vote on you in my own mind, as i was trying to convince others that you are scum. people like Theo, and Kelly to a lesser extent, have been providing detailed analyses of the game at different stages. Consider this MY contribution to the game.
Alright. That was what I wanted to know. Thanks

I'm not planning on voting Scot until Panzer returns, or a replacement for him drops in.
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Post Post #2090 (ISO) » Sat Aug 11, 2007 2:53 am

Post by scotmany12 »

BM, do you have any real proof that we are in lylo? I agree with you that we most likely are, but you sound certain about it. There is still a little bit of doubt in my mind that we are at lylo.
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Post Post #2091 (ISO) » Sat Aug 11, 2007 11:10 pm

Post by Battle Mage »

this is a twenty player game. Even with such meagre power roles, i think the 1/4 scum holds true. Of course, if we aren't in LyLo, we should be able to win today. However i think its best to be safe rather than sorry.
Scot-if you think we are probably in LyLo, would you care to explain why you are so keen to get yourself lynched? :?
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Survived to the end and won - 11
Nightkilled - 10
Survived to the end and lost - 6
Day-elimmed by majority - 4

winrate as scum: 78%
winrate as town: 55%
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Post Post #2092 (ISO) » Sun Aug 12, 2007 4:10 am

Post by scotmany12 »

I'm not keen in getting myself lynched. If I was, I would vote myself. I still think that panzer is scum, and that he should be lynched. I was just saying, if the town wanted to lynch me, then they should get it over with.
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Post Post #2093 (ISO) » Sun Aug 12, 2007 5:15 am

Post by Kelly Chen »

Comments

The idea that Scope's behavior wrt livingod was bussing seems like a lot of WIFOM to me. It did ring bells for me when Scope suggested livingod should claim, which could look like a tip for livingod if Scope hadn't already decided to ditch him. I don't think I see it.
Battle Mage wrote:Day 2 begins. K-Scope starts by joining a BW on me, with absolutely no explanation. Presumably looking for a scapegoat after the day before.
I think it was clear he had a reason, and in time it was clear what the reason was.
Post 245-K-Scope again deliberately refrains from recognising the concept of bussing-suggesting that his pressure on Livingod confirmed him as protown. In the same post, he BW’s Theo, with, wait for it, NO reason given. :p
BTW, I don't find it scummy when no reason is given for a vote, especially if a reason can be imagined... On the contrary I find your same-page same-person vote in 234 to be rather scummy.

I don't get anything town or scum from Scope's vote or comment here.
Post 446, K-Scope proves that OMGUS really is his sole purpose in this game.
Well, I'm not sure what's going on. If I read Scope's earliest posts wrt Twito, I can take Scope as not especially suspecting Twito so much as attacking him for his reason for suspecting him. However if I go with that, it is distressing that I don't feel I can tell when Scope's votes are serious.

I am looking at Scope's 15 (where he asks Twito to admit that he is scum with yellowbounder and BM), 27 (where he says all he's attacked are livingod, BM, and Twito), and 32 (where he says the scum are BM, Twito, and Cheesefan). Cheesefan is back in e.g. his post 40.

It's interesting that 27 doesn't include yellowbounder.

The scum list in 32 seems pretty poor to me; the case against Twito was what, that he was hypocritical in his suspicions of Scope? And how likely is it that Cheesefan would be scum with BM?
Post 448, K-Scope hints that the mafia shouldn’t be seeking a second scum-lynch in a row. This seems to be consistent with the above picture.
I don't understand this point at all.
Next morning, Lowell has been killed. A whole host of reasons link this to K-Scope. Perhaps his reason for not joining the Lowell wagon was that he couldn’t validate with enough reason-making NKing him the optimum choice. Or, more likely, his scumbuddies were pissed off that he cost them a lynch, and killed Lowell anyway.
I can't explain that NK at all. I guess scum felt that it would be effective in setting somebody up, but I don't know who.
Post 846-Al_Ko (scum) lies to protect K-Scope, from a reasonably quick wagon at the start of the day. Later he changes his tune completely, and puts further pressure on K-Scope. Note, no vote yet though.
How did alko lie? I think alko asking this question is more likely if Scope is town than if he's scum.
Something else of note, is that Scotmany also comes to K-Scopes defence, stating that the scum are trying to set him up.
Yes, I think that could well be a slip of scotmany's. I've made the error myself as scum of trying to let the town in on the kill rationale.
Again Al_Ko scum tries to subtly derail the K-Scope wagon.
Huh? alko is explaining to scotmany what the argument against Scope was. ...I guess you mean 860. Hm. That's a bit of an obvious defense I think... I find it easier to think that Alko posted that bit of drivel just to get a post in...
K-Scopes response to his BW is that he DIDN’T REALISE THAT IF WE DIDN’T GET A MAJORITY, WE WOULDN’T LYNCH. I mean, COME ON! K-Scope had been playing Mafia here for longer than me, and I think a newb who has been here a week realises what happens at a deadline.
Oh and he OMGUS votes me. Lol
Actually it is often the case that there is reduced majority to lynch at deadline.
Post 886-K-Scope backtracks, stating that he voluntarily took us to No-Lynch bcause he didn’t want to hammer Lowell.
That post doesn't seem to say that.

Interesting to note here that with 7 votes on him (prev page VC), no scum there except possibly BM and Panzer.
8 posts later, he changes his story again, back to the ‘I don’t know how a deadline works’ BS.
Actually in 894 the fact that he points out he didn't know how it worked is the expected response to theopor_COD criticizing the uselessness of his vote, so at least Scope was consistent.
K-Scope then changes his 3rd suspect from Cheesefan to Panzer.
Post 1007 by Panzer is an absolute gem. If you don’t reread anything else, you should read that.
Ok this is what it says:
Panzer wrote:Theo, I never unvoted K-scope so that is false information. I also don't see where you get K-scope is town, I am suspicious of you and think you re misinterpreting things. I believe his talk on the LG wagon was a distancing tactic and a fall back plan if he couldn't misdirect the lynch. An oppurtunity never arrived. Yes, this falls under ballsy. Notice how he immediately jumped on BM and ignored Scotmany when they were doing the exact same thing and scotmany was being far more scummy about it and far more hardcore about it. He still hasn't gotten off BM's case and has not mentioned scotmany in any of his post although a lot of us feel Scotmany is scum. He also really hasn't posted anything of content just hating BM and trying to direct attention toward N9V when he was under fire. The fact you put this guy in your definite town group is absurd. He has been completely and utterly unhelpful to the town. Right now I am thinking you, K-scope, and Scot are all scum partners. I would like a Unvote, Vote:Theo, Major FoS: K-Scope and Scotmany
So what do you feel we should take from this BM? I at least would think that Scope-Panzer is an unlikely scum pair.
Page 44-Al Ko again provides an excuse for K-Scopes actions on the previous day, using a WIFOM argument.
I don't think that was really a WIFOM argument, that Scope could just have not posted to get a no lynch.

I think alko's defense of Scope seems awfully blatant if they're partners, considering how lazily alko seemed to play...
Ah here’s the bit where we lost a lot of posts due to the site going down.

Theo BWs K-Scope, before K-Scope selfvotes, with the ‘giving up’ scumtell.
In this case I didn't take this as a scumtell.

Anyway, what's with your 1101 vote for Rand instead of Scope?
Just as the K-Scope bandwagon increases to the point of being the dominant one, Al Ko requests replacement. I don’t blame him. If I was Al Ko at that point, already a GF down, and with another buddy about to be lynched, its not looking good.
Of course its possible that this is merely a coincidence. But I don’t think so.
Hmm, the douchebag scumtell seems a little uncharitable; I'd be more inclined to blame it on the poor health of the game.
Post 1171 is a good one to reference aswell. K-Scopes bandwagon is still growing at this point, and Al Ko (despite having just requested replacement) takes one more stab at derailing the wagon. I recommend you read the post for yourself. Basically he tried his hardest to derail the Scope wagon, while pushing a lynch on N9V.
I read this post and come to the opposite conclusion. If you're quitting the game out of disillusionment why would you blatantly defend your scumpal whom you're already leaving for dead in quitting.

Perhaps another possibility is that the framer had targeted Scope, and so the scum hoped to waste a different lynch on him as well as a cop investigation. This is still a pretty iffy interpretation though...

Interesting to note that Jalyn lumps scotmany with BM and Twito as someone that she never feels is protown. The straightforward interpretation is that she wanted to keep her options open on scotmany, which should not make sense if they're partners.
The Fonz replaces Al Ko, and seems to take a slightly different stance towards him. Of the 3 lynch candidates for the day, Fonz comments in favour of Theo, and casts suspicion onto K-Scope and N9V. Possibly a towntell for K-Scope, only it should be noted, that despite picking apart K-Scopes posts, Fonz never votes for him. Rather he joins the N9V wagon, thus ensuring that K-Scope was not lynched.
No Lynch occurs.
I don't think this is really a town tell for Scope; Fonz seemed to take the possibly profitable position of suspecting Scope, but simultaneously say he prefers to lynch N9V.

Fonz 1195 is very weird, telling Amb that if his next post does not contain a case against scotmany, he will be very suspicious. Fonz says he hasn't seen a case against scotmany.
1592-K-Scope once again shows his opportunism, and evident desperation to get some mislynches.
This isn't really helpful... He says we need to "get over this talking and lynch a bitch" to avoid another NL. To be scummy I'd expect he would try to accomplish the "mislynch" in a way that could draw less attention to himself.

Interesting to see Amb's argument here (p65) that Panzer is scum with scotmany.
Post 1636-Scope makes some unfathomable comment about me and Kelly. I think he’s trying to infer that we are both scum, but I guess he’ll have to explain that himself.
Wtf? How do you get that out of "LOL, it seems today is "Help your fellow mafiate" day"?

I'm not saying I understand it either, but I don't see where you get your explanation.
Then Fonz appears, to say that he would accept a Scot-lynch, but would prefer a Panzer/BM lynch. Completely ignored K-Scope who was his top suspect not long before.
I can take this post (1710) as a defense of scotmany.

And then he responds to you to post several screenfuls of PBPA against Panzer. At the end he apologizes for not having enough stamina left to analyze BM. Looks bad for BM. Did Fonz ever get back to this task...? Looks like 1717 is that analysis, and it doesn't seem to suspect BM too heavily. I believe you didn't respond to it at all; in the post where you could have, you instead argued with Panzer.
K-Scope then pops up to try and derail the growing Panzer wagon. YB doesn’t vote Panzer immediately, which he did do with N9V. Could indicate that either YB actually learnt from his mistakes, or perhaps that he doesn’t want to bus another buddy.
I'm not willing to take much from YB's actions...

1760: BM defends Yogurt by saying he thinks we're past the point of lynching lurkers. 1767: Asks for a prod on YB, in order to know whether it's deliberate lurking.

1787 interesting that scotmany is ok with putting Yogurt as his top suspicion.

1804: Fonz is reluctant to bus YB when Panzer still seems like a viable lynch. That makes no f$%ing sense if he's scum with Panzer.
Fonz shouldn't be blind to the fact that YB was playing like total crap; the fact that he had a framing ability couldn't offset this.

1810: scotmany rather scummily says:
"Panzer is frightening me right now. I'm really not sure if he is a frustrated townie or a mafia trying to pull a gambit."

1835: BM finally gives in a little bit to the YB wagon:
"thats exactly what you said in your last post... :evil:
I know i haven't got around to my analysis yet, but you appear to have enough time to post random fluff.
will a pressure vote help?
Vote: YB"

You kind of reek during this wagon BM.
Meanwhile K-Scope continues to lurk, and is one of the only players not to comment atall on YB-scum. When he does show up, it is only to try pathetically to derail the YB wagon, and lynch me instead.
In fact his effort is so pathetic one wonders why, if he were scum, he wouldn't just take some credit for bussing YB.
Post 1888-K-Scope admits again that his sole purpose in the game (aside from BWing relentlessly) is to play for consistency points.
I do not understand post 1888.
Only when The Fonz claims, does K-Scope react, and when I say react, I mean vote for him immediately. Lol
This could well be because he didn’t think Fonz would be believed-as at the time, Kelly had already voiced doubts over it.
Well, I had just asked him why he targeted blahgo. Your interpretation is possible though.
Page 78-IH gets lynched. In K-Scopes favour, he didn’t join the wagon on IH, keeping his vote on Fonz. Of course, he only posted twice during the course of the day, so its possible that he didn’t notice.
Both myself and K-Scope hop onto the Fonz wagon, the latter with no reason given, though to be fair, it was pretty obvious.
However, in post 1970, he again makes it clear that he wants to get the lynch over with quickly. Sound familiar? It’s the exact same thing he said when bussing Livingod!
So you think that when Scope busses his scum partners he makes a point of wanting to get the lynch over with quickly? You don't think that he expressed a similar attitude for other lynches?
Post 1979-K-Scope clearly doesn’t care who dies as long as it isn’t him.
His stances here do not seem that much less complicated than yours. I do not really know how you feel about Panzer and scotmany.
Post 2017- K-Scope reiterates this selfish view, expressing the benefits of another mislynch, which pretty much confirms my view that we are in LyLo.
In the next post he changes his view, in an attempt to fit in with the views of Theo (confirmed town). Not only that, but his arguments backing his views are gradually making less and less sense. Lol
Not really a change of view since it doesn't involve moving his vote from BM... Rather it is more reason to keep it there.
Post 2032 pretty much sums K-Scope up. His case on me amounts to 2 words: “Defended Godfather”. I explained why this reason is total BS 2 posts afterwards fyi.
Well, I agree with this. It may be a valid reason but I think it is a shallow reading of
everything
you've done.
Then the funny part. He accuses me of ‘Stalling, so I can fit in with the views of others’. Hilariously ironic, seeing as he just did the same thing with Theo.
It may be funny but irony isn't a scumtell.
Interesting that he considers me to be the scummiest person, yet he is happy to lynch Scot today, when we are at LyLo. This too wreaks of scumminess.
Perhaps, but I don't think BM is likely to receive many votes.
I may need a translator for post 2050, but I think K-Scope is saying that he doesn’t want to elaborate on his suspicions… :?
I think he is saying that it wouldn't even be highly useful for us to know why he suspects people.

Although, it would make me feel better about Scope if I felt his thought process was more transparent.
His reasoning for choosing Scot-scum over Panzer-scum in post 2060 is BS.
It's not BS, although it sounds simplistic.
Anyway, that’s my analysis of K-Scope. I’ll admit, there are some weaknesses in there. I’d like to think I’ve done a fairly balanced analysis of him. However, I’m ever confident that he is scum. That’s not to say he’s the only player I’m suspicious of. However, we are almost certainly at LyLo today, and letting K-Scope survive would be idiotic…
Thanks for this analysis.
Something else i will note however, is K-Scopes attitude towards Panzer and Scot. I'm finding it very hard to see which of those 2 could be his scumbuddy. Still, i guess we'll deal with that tomorrow.
Meditate on post 2060, as well as my bolded line above.
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Post Post #2094 (ISO) » Sun Aug 12, 2007 5:19 am

Post by Kelly Chen »

In conclusion...

After all that I'm pretty torn as to what we should do if we lynch scotmany as
town
, and the game isn't over.
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Post Post #2095 (ISO) » Sun Aug 12, 2007 5:23 am

Post by scotmany12 »

We could just not lynch me and lynch panzer.
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Post Post #2096 (ISO) » Sun Aug 12, 2007 5:41 am

Post by scotmany12 »

On day 6, panzer simply posts 2 times. His first post is an unexplained vote for TCS, who did claim tracker. His 2nd post is the hammer of IH. He comments on neither vote.

Then during day 7, he once again only posts twice. His first one is a vote for fonz, could be him bussing. Then his 2nd one is him basically claiming townie.

EDIT: He had 3 posts on day 7. His third post was basically just saying that he though me and scope were scum.
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Post Post #2097 (ISO) » Sun Aug 12, 2007 9:52 am

Post by PJ. »

I have already claimed in this game multiple times. I am vanilla town. You using that as a reason to put suspicion on me is bullshit. The reason I claimed in Werewolves is because I hadn't yet. Scot, you are scum. That really all I have to say because i don't have time/effort to put a case togethor
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Post Post #2098 (ISO) » Sun Aug 12, 2007 9:55 am

Post by scotmany12 »

Uh, no I'm not scum. Maybe you can try and explain your actions on day 6 and 7, day 6 mainly.
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Post Post #2099 (ISO) » Sun Aug 12, 2007 9:57 am

Post by scotmany12 »

You also didn't vote for yourself in werewolves, but decided to vote for yourself in this game, maybe you could explain that as well.

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