Open 575: Friends & Enemies-Together At Last (OVER)

[borkjerfkin]

like 0 scum in my townreads

I fucking never do that

[Mathdino]

What are the funniest posts in the mason/scum threads?

[borkjerfkin]

mason thread is mostly me talking to myself

[borkjerfkin]

even on N1

[Mathdino]

Yeah, I buddied Wisdom too much early on. He was my strongest townread and his playstyle really spoke to mine. I do hope you can see why I did do that, though, and how it makes sense from a town perspective.

It really doesn't, regardless of what alignment you actually are.

If you're a vanilla townie,

I would have to think

there should be at least some degree of uncertainty surrounding your reads. You absolutely never wavered in the Wisdom townread though.

In fact, you were so deep in bromance mode, you answered my case on Wisdom

for

him.

The townread was so beyond a rational point that I thought it had to be from a mason.

To a slightly lesser degree, I actually got the same treatment from acryon and Constantine. I figured there were too many people with a really strong townread on Wisdom for him not to be a mason. And it was pretty obvious from my posts that I thought he was a mason, but no one corrected me and everyone just kept leading me on. The worst part is, I know at least one of acryon or Mathdino has to be town.

Now I just feel manipulated, used, and foolish.

I lol'd so hard at this.

HEY GUYS
I TAKE FULL RESPONSIBILITY FOR THE NEWBIE/BMWS TOWNSLIPS
WOULDN'T HAVE HAPPENED IF I DIDN'T TOWNTUNNEL WISDOM

[acryon]

We were way off on who the masons were.

[acryon]

I was sure N_M was a mason, but the others threw me off the scent in some way or another.

[Mathdino]

At what moment did you realise the mason team?
I actually really want to see what Wisdom has to say on this, because I have no idea if he actually scumslipped or not. bork was right in that that was the point of no return though and the game made no sense without him as scum.

[acryon]

I didn't realize it until they said it actually.

[Mathdino]

I would've bossed this game so hard as scum xD
MASON HUNTING EXTRAORDINAIRE

[acryon]

I did some suspicion analysis that ultimately ended up being bad, and led me to a likely mason-team of BMWS/Mathdino/N_M

[borkjerfkin]

I think I kinda got lucky on Wisdom. The best point on Wisdom was his awkward interaction with Vic wagon

[acryon]

Yeah, I'm new to the whole mason thing, and I botched it up pretty hard.

[borkjerfkin]

The manner in which Wisdom defended Vic is a bit troubling - he goes through a lot of trouble to get pressure off Vic without really defending Vic other than this soft 'Vic is lynchbait' shit without really going into why he thinks that is

If Wisdom had ramped up the defense as Vic got run up it might actually be indicative that he really thought that, but he instead tried to just counterwagon people instead. It's something to look at at least. I generally scumread Wisdom every game.

Yeah look at Wisdom's 740, that doesn't jibe at all with anything Wisdom previous said about Victor

everything wisdom posts gives me herpes

if wisdom dies tonight, TTH is scum. TTH thinks wisdom is a mason. [later recanted this]

actually retract that; that cat got out of the bag

but if wisdom is town he might get NKed and that would be fucking awesome

getting cold feet on wisdom right now

[Mathdino]

I did some suspicion analysis that ultimately ended up being bad, and led me to a likely mason-team of BMWS/Mathdino/N_M

BMWS and I were odd about each other because I asked him to join this game.
I didn't want to townread him too hard early on but every single thing he said pinged me as town and honest him since I know his writing style. That's the other reason I was shouting at bork, because BMWS town was just so goddamn obvious but only to me

I think I kinda got lucky on Wisdom. The best point on Wisdom was his awkward interaction with Vic wagon

Disagree, best point on Wisdom was the "the entire mason team is my scumlist" shit that he kept doing. Had he backed off he might've avoided the lynch since you and I were the only townies really pushing him hard at the time.

[Mathdino]

Did anyone notice the twilight interaction? That's the other thing I really want to know. You'd think Mala would've died N1 since she softclaimed pretty hard.

[borkjerfkin]

Did anyone notice the twilight interaction? That's the other thing I really want to know. You'd think Mala would've died N1 since she softclaimed pretty hard.

I did but confbias so *shrug*

[acryon]

Mala was next on our lynch-list until Wisdom died and everything changed. TTH was tunneling on Wisdom pretty hard, so Wisdom wanted him dead.

[acryon]

I'm interested to hear where other people were at. Was the dead thread very active?

[borkjerfkin]

I didn't want to townread him too hard early on but every single thing he said pinged me as town and honest him since I know his writing style. That's the other reason I was shouting at bork, because BMWS town was just so goddamn obvious but only to me

yeah I threw out the townslip as an outlier and was left with "BMWS commentator mode"

I actually read a LOT overnight as I thought scum might leave me alive, so don't think I voted in a bout of passion or anything.

[borkjerfkin]

My problem was that I was considering the newbie townflip at that point but not the mathdino townflip

[Mathdino]

^Yep.

acryon flip flopping on me halfway through yesterday pinged me so hard as scum, just by gut, but I couldn't realise what was off about it. So I asked you but you were already in {Mathdino, Newbie} mode so I just dropped it. I think the lesson here is we should all listen to our guts more.

[Mathdino]

I think the hilarious thing here is that literally everyone who offered themselves to be lynched (Riddleton, me, Newbie) were town, and the ONE guy who was like "I said we should CLEAR me, not kill me!" was scum.

Goddammit acryon.

[TellTaleHeart]

I'm disappointed it turned out like this.

Good game, everyone.

[borkjerfkin]

Sorry for the wall in advance.

Splitting this up into a few sections to keep it organized/focused on things I think are notable.

Early Game/Wgeurts Questioning

-39 was basically just a re-wording of my initial questioning of Victor’s question. I didn’t really think much of it at the time, but now it seems like may have been trying to gain some town-cred by calling out Victor even though I already did that. It looks like it worked because in 46 Mathdino seems to give him some of that cred.
-64 we see Wisdom seconding a question from wgeurts about why I thought the vote on him may be justified. I thought it was painfully obvious to everyone but wgeurts why people might be suspecting him given his erratic play. This made sense coming from someone who is new, but looking at it from Wisdom now seems fabricated. I think he should have known better.
-In 103, he questions wgeurts on unvoting him. This is one of those things that I think isn’t inherently scummy, but if you are looking at it being done by potential scum, it looks really scummy.
-108 is another example of this I think. He questions TTH this time about not engaging him directly. He is very proactive in his defense.
-110 and 114 are more of the same. Now that I’m reading through it again, all of these types of posts are really rubbing me the wrong way. I’m still don’t know that they point to him being scum, but they do help prop up a scum-case on him I think.
-In 188, he calls for wgeurts to stop the mason-talk, which is pro-town, but he does so after Mathdino already calls it out, so it’s hard to give him real town-points for it.
-299 he begins to go after SW for defending him. I’m all for looking into those appearing to WK you as scum, but the way he is going about it does seem a little too aggressive to be genuine.

Push on SW

-I actually agreed with the push on SW, as I joined in as well. If Wisdom is scum, there is still a chance, I think, that this was a bus. It did feel quite genuine, but I don’t want to rule it out just because it felt good.
-346 pings as he says he will self-vote over a NL. This is not town-motivated. Lynching a random person is better than a NL, but if you are town, then lynching what is a confirmed town to you is not better than a NL.

Miscellaneous

-Looking at this vote-count, I think there is a

very

good chance that there was some bussing going on:
Wisdom (4) - TellTaleHeart, wgeurts, SilverWolf, Newbie
wgeurts (4) - VictorDeAngelo, blindmewithscience, Wisdom, Mathdino
VictorDeAngelo (1) - acryon
acryon (1) – Malakittens
I’m not going to speculate pre-flip, but I wanted to make a note for future reference if Wisdom does end up being the lynch and flips scum.
-In the VC in 400, I don’t know how likely it is that 2+ scum would be on the wgeurts wagon at that point in time. I’m certainly not saying it’s impossible, but my initial thought on it is that this gives Wisdom some town-points.

Mala/Mid-game

-In 354, I made a far-fetched (and I admitted it as such) post about a potential Mala coaching wgeurts situation. I think most people recognized this as some wild speculation (as it was), but Wisdom jumped on it in 355.
-Then in 404, he sort of begins to run with it by questioning Mala on her reads, although he hadn’t really engaged her much at all before now.
-In 590/593 he votes and pushes for more info from Mala. I actually liked this, because Mala had been pretty weak with her reasoning.
-In 610 Wisdom mentions masons maybe voting each other to muddy the waters, and this doesn’t really make any sense at all. Town don’t vote players who are confirmed town to them; they either vote scum or vote to pressure those they are unsure about. Very weird comment to make, especially from someone with a good amount of experience.
-614 he gets weirdly defensive toward TTH and says he is “starting to consider [him avoiding interaction with him] a scum tactic.” This just reads really awkwardly.
-666 he again is asking for people to explain town-reads on him. All of this focus on explanations for town-reading him seem to indicate a greater desire to clear himself to town than to actually find scum. It isn’t scummy to be concerned about what people think of you, but the degree to which he has focused on it is suspect.

Late-game

-696 and [/post]740[/post] do read like scum trying to protect their buddy. The soft-defense definitely pings a bit.
-752 and 755 do venture into hard-defending territory, but it is quickly backed off in 760 where he concedes that Victor did some weird things.
-I agreed with a lot of his pushing on Constantine, and still do.
-His post in 786 pings. He asks both myself and Mathdino, knowing that we shared similar views on SW in the past, so it seems like he could be trying to keep us strung along behind him.
-1084 is super weird. “The remaining scum is mala and most likely acryon”. What?? He had never even really mentioned me before that point and now I am most likely scum?
-1099 is just so weak. He says I am scum simply due to PoE, but could also be N_M or BMWS. This is just so confusing. His reasoning for thinking any of me/MMWS/N_M is nonexistent.

The fact that I have agreed with more than one of the wagons he was pushing makes me obviously reluctant to push him over someone I have completely disagreed with(Constantine), but it does appear that there is a very good chance he is scum. I think it is an absolute certainty that one of Wisdom/Riddleton/Constantine is scum, and very probably that 2 are scum.

VOTE: Wisdom

I'm a little worried about this post.

Dude was defending wisdom all game then as soon as I spilled it and Mathdino jumped on, it's case time

sigh

this was 'I'm panicking and bussing you" so much