Mafia 82: International (Game Over)

[BlakAdder]

Thank you.
I think that the poisoners are Mafia. I assume that both mafias have one, but I am not sure.
1: That doesn't hold any water. Mods can include whatever roles they want.
2: That seems to be the only way that it would make sense for there to be mafia poisoners. If the poisoners were pro-town they probably would not have killed every night.
3: I honestly am not sure about this one. Just a theory, but do you think that there could be three mafias? (i.e., Mafia 1 has a Tracker and a Watcher, Mafia 2 has a Doctor and Roleblocker, and Mafia 3 has two poisoners?)
Do you not see any reason to question the people that think that there are no poisoners?

[Battle Mage]

Thank you.
I think that the poisoners are Mafia. I assume that both mafias have one, but I am not sure.
1: That doesn't hold any water. Mods can include whatever roles they want.

This is Skitzer. Not the kinda guy who would go completely crazy in his first large game, which is, you'll note, a NORMAL game. Secondly, you failed to explain why you think it is more likely that Skitzer has included a role that has never appeared on MS than 1 that has, with the same mechanic?

2: That seems to be the only way that it would make sense for there to be mafia poisoners. If the poisoners were pro-town they probably would not have killed every night.

Vigilantes kill every night, barring possibly Night 0.

3: I honestly am not sure about this one. Just a theory, but do you think that there could be three mafias? (i.e., Mafia 1 has a Tracker and a Watcher, Mafia 2 has a Doctor and Roleblocker, and Mafia 3 has two poisoners?)

It is theoretically possible that we have a 3rd mafia group, but seems unlikely based on the kills we've had so far:

Cremation - Arsonist
Drowning - Icelandic
Dismembering - Portuguese
Poisoning - Vig/SK

Is what i think we concluded. But, as i dont believe Poisoners can be Mafia, i obviously do not think we have a mafia group consisting of 2 poisoners. lol
And i think you are beginning to see the flaws in your original judgement.

BM

Do you not see any reason to question the people that think that there are no poisoners?[/quote]

[Battle Mage]

ah sorry, missed the last question. No, i dont think anybody now thinks there is not a Poisoner.

BM

[Tom Mason]

Cremation - Arsonist
Drowning - Icelandic
Dismembering - Portuguese
Poisoning - Vig/SK

Is what i think we concluded. But, as i dont believe Poisoners can be Mafia, i obviously do not think we have a mafia group consisting of 2 poisoners. lol
And i think you are beginning to see the flaws in your original judgement.

BM

This is what YOU have concluded. Not "we" as a collective group of players.

This is a whole bunch of WIFOM. Over and over.

Because only one night was a double poison kill does not say that only one or neither mafia is a poisoner. Nor does the fact that you have never seen a poisoner as mafia before.

A ton of players have been replaced, some roles more than once, which could explain the reasoning there have not always been two mafia/poisoning kills. There is the possibility that they both targeted the same player. Small chance, but it is still a chance. Just like there is a chance that there are not mafia poisoners.

But it makes most sense for both poisoners to be the same type of role -- i.e. Mafia. I would scratch my head and never understand it if one is mafia and one is a vig/SK role. Those types of roles are distinguishable from the mafia. You can argue that skitzer tried to make the mafia's distinctly different -- but he did that in their investigative roles. Each of them needs a kill, more than likely, so what does it matter if they are the same type of kill?

Cremation is obviously an arsonist. And I would suggest that dismemberment is a pretty obvious serial killer tactic -- it is a sadistic ritual. Mafia kills are typically quick and/or quiet. That leaves drowning -- which could be a mafia tactic but makes sense to be as the vigilante's tactic.

I stand by my vote. All you have argued against your naysayers, BM, are things that cannot be proven until a lynch actually occurs of someone in any of these roles. And you know that. I do not like the way you try to steer the ship with your posts, with the pact, with the plan for the power roles, etc.

[Battle Mage]

Cremation - Arsonist
Drowning - Icelandic
Dismembering - Portuguese
Poisoning - Vig/SK

Is what i think we concluded. But, as i dont believe Poisoners can be Mafia, i obviously do not think we have a mafia group consisting of 2 poisoners. lol
And i think you are beginning to see the flaws in your original judgement.

BM

This is what YOU have concluded. Not "we" as a collective group of players.

It's the most logical conclusion, statistically and flavour wise.

Because only one night was a double poison kill does not say that only one or neither mafia is a poisoner. Nor does the fact that you have never seen a poisoner as mafia before.

Have you?

A ton of players have been replaced, some roles more than once, which could explain the reasoning there have not always been two mafia/poisoning kills. There is the possibility that they both targeted the same player. Small chance, but it is still a chance. Just like there is a chance that there are not mafia poisoners.

The chance of there not being mafia poisoners just happens to be alot larger. But i guess that doesnt bother you?
And besides, cross-kills might invoke shared flavour. Just a thought...

But it makes most sense for both poisoners to be the same type of role -- i.e. Mafia. I would scratch my head and never understand it if one is mafia and one is a vig/SK role.

I doubt there are 2 poisoners. But perhaps the mechanic of delayed kills accounts for so many missing kills?

Those types of roles are distinguishable from the mafia. You can argue that skitzer tried to make the mafia's distinctly different -- but he did that in their investigative roles. Each of them needs a kill, more than likely, so what does it matter if they are the same type of kill?

Find me 1 mafia game, in the New York Forum, where there are 2 distinct mafia flavoured groups, with the exact same kill method.

Cremation is obviously an arsonist. And I would suggest that dismemberment is a pretty obvious serial killer tactic -- it is a sadistic ritual. Mafia kills are typically quick and/or quiet. That leaves drowning -- which could be a mafia tactic but makes sense to be as the vigilante's tactic.

I'd have thought so. But Drowning is clearly Icelandic, and if we DO have 2 poisoners, the only kill method left for Portuguese is Dismemberment. How does Drowning scream Vig? rofl

I stand by my vote. All you have argued against your naysayers, BM, are things that cannot be proven until a lynch actually occurs of someone in any of these roles. And you know that. I do not like the way you try to steer the ship with your posts, with the pact, with the plan for the power roles, etc.

That's lovely. But you have yet to answer my questions. Hop to it.

BM

[raider8169]

I think it is possible the the poisoner is town as it would be harder to pick your kills and you would need to plan things out more. However, in the end I would have to think they are scum simply because they can kill people even after they are killed.

Why does this matter though? We are looking for scum not the poisoner.

[BlakAdder]

Why does this matter though? We are looking for scum not the poisoner.

Good point, Raider. I hadn't thought of that. I'll have to go back and look at BM's other questions as well to see if any others had any pro-town significance.

[Cyberbob]

Yay, BM's back in action. Mysteriously a whole bunch of other people started posting at the exact same time.

Unfortunately I'm finding most of this stuff highly irrelevant - we should be focussing on the best case for a lynch we've got. Namely Tom Mason.

[Battle Mage]

I think it is possible the the poisoner is town as it would be harder to pick your kills and you would need to plan things out more. However, in the end I would have to think they are scum simply because they can kill people even after they are killed.

Why does this matter though? We are looking for scum not the poisoner.

Exactly. At worst, the Poisoner is an SK.

And ok Cyberbob, i'll stand to a Tom Mason lynch.

Unvote, Vote: Tom Mason

Methinks thou doth protest too much!

BM

[tubby216]

I like BM's plan.

~ this was dec 7th

If the plan was so obviously flawed, why didn't you bring it up when it was relevant?
Regardless,

unvote, vote:BM

because of his plan, and because he seems to be the only remaining person openly denouncing the idea of Mafia poisoners.

~this was dec 15th

so it took you that long from being completely on board with the plan to hating it and voting bm?

vote: Tom Mason

He's getting more suspicious with each post.
@BM: If you've already claimed Cop, why wouldn't you tell us your night results?

why does it matter if he reveals his findings are you getting nervous??

that and to top it all off,, ( wich i know this is the pot callin the kettle black) but your posts are about as worthless as a lurker you post no content no original opinion nothin, your like that kid at a fight thats standing behind the fighters yellin, hey are you gonna let him get away with that, eggin them on.

that and i don't like the fact that every other post you bring up the poisoner thing ,, enough already we know they exsist but dop you have a thought on alignment??

[BlakAdder]

I like BM's plan.

~ this was dec 7th

If the plan was so obviously flawed, why didn't you bring it up when it was relevant?
Regardless,

unvote, vote:BM

because of his plan, and because he seems to be the only remaining person openly denouncing the idea of Mafia poisoners.

~this was dec 15th

so it took you that long from being completely on board with the plan to hating it and voting bm?

vote: Tom Mason

He's getting more suspicious with each post.
@BM: If you've already claimed Cop, why wouldn't you tell us your night results?

why does it matter if he reveals his findings are you getting nervous??

that and to top it all off,, ( wich i know this is the pot callin the kettle black) but your posts are about as worthless as a lurker you post no content no original opinion nothin, your like that kid at a fight thats standing behind the fighters yellin, hey are you gonna let him get away with that, eggin them on.

that and i don't like the fact that every other post you bring up the poisoner thing ,, enough already we know they exsist but dop you have a thought on alignment??

If you're going to attack me, at least respect me by not using crap logic.
You ignored that during that eight-day period where I changed stances on BM's plan, people had pointed out the flaws in the plan that were not visible on the 7th (which I will remind you is the day that BM released the plan).
Of course it is important that the cop reveal his results. Witholding important information from the town is in no way helpful.
I've voiced my stance on the poisoners' alignments several times. Read the fucking thread.
And you resort to insulting me as well. Great. I know have almost no doubt in my mind that BM and Tubby are scumbuddies.

[Lowell]

I strongly agree with post 2332 by cyber. However, I am liking the case by tubby in 2334. Good point about BA.

[EGL]

@ BM: Can you get a guilty on neutrals?

[BlakAdder]

I'm going to have somewhat limited access starting the 26th. I'll try to post as much as I can.
I still like my vote on BM. Tubby would make a good wagon too.

[EGL]

Blackadder's Christmas Carol came on today and will be on again tomorrow on BBC America.

[raider8169]

Blackadder's Christmas Carol came on today and will be on again tomorrow on BBC America.

What are you talking about?

[tubby216]

I'm going to have somewhat limited access starting the 26th. I'll try to post as much as I can.
I still like my vote on BM. Tubby would make a good wagon too.

well carry on with your nonsense i will still be here when you get back, you can wagon all you want but i still think your scum

[EGL]

It's a spoof on Charles Dickens' A Christmas Carol starring Rowan Atkinson. It was made in like 1988.

[tubby216]

i mean to say that if you think that i and bm are scum buddies wich is highly unlikely(reasons to follow) i would be the better lynch
1) because bm is claimed cop and you lynch him and you are wrong you lost the town their cop good job there doc,
2) there is little to no risk in lynching me there by according to you if i flip scum that must mean that bm is scum and you have the next day to lynch him

however lets look at why me and bm being a scum is out wrong,

1)i have been following bm
2)bm has not coached me nor has he even acknowledged that i am even playin this game,
3) there have been two deaths from each faction wich to me its more likely that we are dealing with teams of three any more than that with sk's to me would be bastardly and no way for town to win.

plus your actions do not speak well to your towniness i think it more likely you are scum, just because you claimed a protown role and everyone backed off of you does not give you free licesnse to run amuck and stink up the joint with scummy no content posts,,,

if anyone deserves a wagon its you

[Surye]

School is over, I can reprise my role as Surye. After a preliminary re-read, I see 1) BM is being BM, withholding police results CAN be benificial as the more time scum has to talk, the more oppertunities of them to publicly contradict the results. Though losing a cop who had results is a bad thing, so this should be used rarely.

Tubby/BM seem an unlikely pair.

Tubby/BA actually goes me a good gut feeling, I'm going to do a closer read with that posibility. Their back and forth feels careful, but obvious. BA's 8 day flip on BM's plan feels fake, so I'd be willing to see BA flip first.

Anyways, further re-reading to come!

[Battle Mage]

I like BM's plan.

~ this was dec 7th

If the plan was so obviously flawed, why didn't you bring it up when it was relevant?
Regardless,

unvote, vote:BM

because of his plan, and because he seems to be the only remaining person openly denouncing the idea of Mafia poisoners.

~this was dec 15th

so it took you that long from being completely on board with the plan to hating it and voting bm?

vote: Tom Mason

He's getting more suspicious with each post.
@BM: If you've already claimed Cop, why wouldn't you tell us your night results?

why does it matter if he reveals his findings are you getting nervous??

that and to top it all off,, ( wich i know this is the pot callin the kettle black) but your posts are about as worthless as a lurker you post no content no original opinion nothin, your like that kid at a fight thats standing behind the fighters yellin, hey are you gonna let him get away with that, eggin them on.

that and i don't like the fact that every other post you bring up the poisoner thing ,, enough already we know they exsist but dop you have a thought on alignment??

If you're going to attack me, at least respect me by not using crap logic.
You ignored that during that eight-day period where I changed stances on BM's plan, people had pointed out the flaws in the plan that were not visible on the 7th (which I will remind you is the day that BM released the plan).

Weren't visible? You mean to say, they were visible, you just didnt point them out. And it's only when they were brought to public light that you acknowledged them. Which is why Tubby is, legitimately, attacking you.

Of course it is important that the cop reveal his results. Witholding important information from the town is in no way helpful.

Erm, what did you claim again?

And you resort to insulting me as well. Great. I know have almost no doubt in my mind that BM and Tubby are scumbuddies.

good. Now i feel alot less responsible for allowing you to be strung up today.

Still good to lynch either Tom Mason or BA.

BM

[Battle Mage]

Blackadder's Christmas Carol came on today and will be on again tomorrow on BBC America.

in game communication?

BM

[Battle Mage]

@ BM: Can you get a guilty on neutrals?

I dont think my PM specifically mentioned them.

BM

[tubby216]

so ba isn't strung up at this point why??

[Cyberbob]

so ba isn't strung up at this point why??

better case on tom mason bra