Mini 1565: Playing Card Mafia (Game Over)

[goodmorning]

Votecount 5.4

StrangerCoug [LYNCH] - Desperado, pieguyn

Desperado [L-1] - StrangerCoug

Not Voting [0] -

With 3 alive, it takes

2

to lynch. The day

will end in (expired on 2014-06-05 18:00:00)

is over.

[goodmorning]

StrangerCoug, 5♣, 3♥,

Vanilla Town/Vanilla Town

, has been lynched Day 5.

Mafia Win!

[goodmorning]

Dead thread.
Mod thread.

Mafia may share their topic if they so choose.

[vezokpiraka]

Congratulations mafia. Well played.

[StrangerCoug]

pieguyn, you had a difficult LYLO. Both of us were under very little suspicion all game. Don't feel like you are worthless.

[pieguyn]

gg

i'm so sorry

town would have won this if it weren't for me

in hindsight i should have just trusted my LYLO read instead of reading through the game more. those are generally more accurate but i can never bring myself to trust them especially when i can't find anything else in the entire damn game to support it even after rereading constantly (and when i wrongly thought SC was trying to manipulate me). i'm crying that i realized desp wasn't trying to game solve and then second guessed it

saying desp did nothing unfakeable all game is true but that didn't work since SC mostly did the same thing too when you discount the bulba interactions

now i just feel like the worst player ever

i don't want to disgrace everyone with my presence anymore. i wish i was dead

btw i'm still not sure what the optimal way to replace into games is. i certainly won't be doing it this way again because that mostly didn't get me anywhere

/hide

[pieguyn]

pieguyn, you had a difficult LYLO. Both of us were under very little suspicion all game. Don't feel like you are worthless.

<3 thanks

[bazinga]

pieguyn, you had a difficult LYLO. Both of us were under very little suspicion all game. Don't feel like you are worthless.

<3 thanks

chin up, we'll get em next time!

GG everyone, thank you for this game!

[Shadow Dancer]

Pie, don't hate yourself. You had your wits a lot more together than most any one else in this game. Just remember not to overthink things next time. And trust that voice on the back of your head/your gut/whatever you call it.

Plus: You were pretty much obvtown fro the very moment you entered this game, which also sets you above the majority of players in this game, including myself.

So the only thing that stands between you and an MVP status is that blown LYLO vote; as far as bad decisions go, that's big one, of course, but it's not nearly as bad as you are thinking.

[Shadow Dancer]

Mafia QT?!

[Shadow Dancer]

saying desp did nothing unfakeable all game is true but that didn't work since SC mostly did the same thing too when you discount the bulba interactions

This is it pretty much: Most of the things that some one does are irrelevant (as far as determining their alignment goes) or you simply cannot tell if and how they are relevant, which comes down to the same thing. So you should concentrate on the few clear clues you get when and if you get them. It doesn't matter what else Cougar did. His interactions with Bulba were genuinely town with such an almost certainty that the most logical explanation for any suspicious thing he had done pretty much had to be underwhelming town play instead of subliminal scummy intentions.

[Desperado]

http://www.quicktopic.com/50/H/NvEsUYFjd53X

not much to it

[Desperado]

@ shadow: problem is i had similar reactions with bulb, so the decision came down to those other factors

[Bicephalous Bob]

well played

well modded

godfather is a bad role

[Shadow Dancer]

@ shadow: problem is i had similar reactions with bulb, so the decision came down to those other factors

Your reaction to Bulba was nowhere close to Cougar's...

[Desperado]

no, but bulb's vigorous attempts to discredit me appear to have been the deciding factor

[pirate mollie]

gg

i'm so sorry

town would have won this if it weren't for me

in hindsight i should have just trusted my LYLO read instead of reading through the game more. those are generally more accurate but i can never bring myself to trust them especially when i can't find anything else in the entire damn game to support it even after rereading constantly (and when i wrongly thought SC was trying to manipulate me). i'm crying that i realized desp wasn't trying to game solve and then second guessed it

saying desp did nothing unfakeable all game is true but that didn't work since SC mostly did the same thing too when you discount the bulba interactions

now i just feel like the worst player ever

i don't want to disgrace everyone with my presence anymore. i wish i was dead

btw i'm still not sure what the optimal way to replace into games is. i certainly won't be doing it this way again because that mostly didn't get me anywhere

/hide

pie stop beating yourself up this instant! you did the best you could and that is all that 1 can ask for.

in the 80 games or so I have played on this site I have only been in lylo 5 times and only voted correctly in 2 of them. I know how it feels to feel like you blew the game for every1. my heart goes out to you. fwiw, bert thought sc was scum too but I had poed it out to desp as the last scum.

this game was a bit frustrating and town chemistry never happened. we were caught between a rock and a hard place when emogurl started blatantly rolefishing and I responded retardedly. we came up with the hider claim so that scum wouldn't nk us right away which was a hard gambit to pull off. sc was our strongest townread at the time, I even said on the zombie board that he was the only 1 who felt like he was on my team the whole game, hence why we said we hid behind him. I felt really confident in that read altho the whole dumb multi electrical switch argument made me crazy. he isn't a player I know very well but I was trying to work with him all of the same. sc <3. you sent out clear strong signal and I thank you for that.

re yesman and why it took us so long to get there:

looking back through our chatlog bert had a lot of sympathy for yesman, cos he has a difficult playsyle to get a read on. bert identifies with this in a big way and wanted to give him some space so I did. I thought his play here was nothing like in isaac and wanted to vig him but didn't feel strong enough about the weak meta read since I have only played 1 game with him.

casso vig choice was that nacho was being confusing and thorella was pretty much useless, at least from our perspective. i reached out hardcore to nacho on d1 to try to solidify a vig choice for n2 and I never got exactly what I needed from him and it made me paranoid. I have been in/seen so many games where both players in that hydra snowed town when they were scum that my golden rule for dealing with them is "thou shalt not suffer them to live if I have a vig kill and they are not sending up a strong town signal" since both of those players know how to send up a strong town signal when they want to. it could be argued that nacho tried, since he helped lynch scumbulba but I had put him in a position that even if he was scum he would have had to bus bulba at that point, cos I was about ready to start quoting bulba from coc where he said he did not think I made sense. so it was null from my perspective.

we just never connected in this game and it makes me sad.

I think shadow had the best reads in the game and next time if ever I am in a similar situation I am sheeping her dead reads. sorry I got weird on you shadow. nasty rash was obvtown but I can get weird on hydras sometimes. actually lets just say I can get weird.

I hated the aegor vig but it needed to be done cos aegor would have been the mislynch for the next day. like literally no1 was listening or working with me (at least that is what it felt like) that aegor was playing very differently than in xeno3 where he was a sk. the read was incredibly mushy and I did not feel confident about it hence the vig kill.

desp sent this in our chatlog:

desperado: fuck you for vigging aegor and making me work for that one, btw
Sent at 11:13 AM on Wednesday
me: lol

desp is an IRL friend and I tend to give those a wider space. but he DID look pretty town on d1 altho this game will be a meta minefield of info.

did get there in the end but it was too late.

re vig kills:

I usually like to go after scummy reads but our reads were all over the place so it came down to who do we NOT want to see in lylo. casso was a good starting point, cos they are extremely hard to lynch. also they had a shitton of suspicion on them AND lack of clear town signal altho reading back I see where I missed a lot of townish signals. sorry guys, nacho I can read MOST of the time like my record is probs better than anybody else's on this site but it isn't a 100%. thorella I have learned that I cannot read at all cos he is antagonistic no matter what, so he is on a game by game analysis. I think we misstepped by voting them out the gate, even tho it was rvs, but it opened up a wormhole that provided misinterpretations for the rest of the game. again, sorry guys. I MIGHT be nailing down how to deal with you both in the future.

aegor just needed to happen as I already said. it cleared the way for a lynch on scumyesman at the time.

all in all, I don't think that town cohesion happened which is something I often see on this site. it is much easier to play with players you are familiar with in this voting/lynching/timing format. the whole fallacious arguments tell has gone out the window cos it has been proven repeatedly that town makes fallacious arguments all of the time. so it kind of comes down to what I call ghetto mafia-ing, where you have to apply streetsmarts and experience.

@ pie

the only place I think you misstepped is exactly what you have identified already. sc was bottlenecking scum's options for lynches by clearing first us and then you. the only thing you can do is to learn from it. if you love the game but hate your failures the only thing you can do is to learn from the mistakes and move on. you didn't play a bad game at all, so plz don't feel like you did.

@ emogurl

plz don't ever rolefish like that again. there are players (like moi) who freak out on that shit if they are a special and it skews the game. I get that you were flavour speccing and that in itself shld be harmless but you have people like us who srsly freak out on that, mostly cos I have seen scum do it so many times and it worked.

@ good morning

ty for the game <3. I wasn't happy that we had to pester you for the card flips and I feel like you kind of cleared sc by quoting the switch argument. if I were scum i would have been pissed. but other than that the game was extremely well run, your vcs were on time and it was obvious you were following the game which is something I feel like every gm should do. thank you again for that. you seem to have this inner knack for timing your flips; they did not skew either alignment which is the neutral position that all gms shld take IMO.

I am sure there are LOTS of ways we could have played better but we worked with what we had and who we are as a hydra. this hydra was started as an experiment to heal the differences that bert and I had and it has also been a teaching hydra at least for me; bert is teaching me how to relax more and have fun in games. <---- I so needed this lesson. I have said it before and I will say it again this is 1 of my favourite hydras. just know that this hydra is not very well grounded but I think we are making improvements. I feel like a newb all over again in this hydra, that is how much I have learned from bert. he is awsum.

[Natirasha]

I was in this game!

[goodmorning]

godfather is a bad role

I actually quite like passive roles.

At any rate it made no difference.

@pie: You played a good game from where I stand. I wouldn't worry too much about it.

@ good morning

ty for the game <3. I wasn't happy that we had to pester you for the card flips and I feel like you kind of cleared sc by quoting the switch argument. if I were scum i would have been pissed. but other than that the game was extremely well run, your vcs were on time and it was obvious you were following the game which is something I feel like every gm should do. thank you again for that. you seem to have this inner knack for timing your flips; they did not skew either alignment which is the neutral position that all gms shld take IMO.

Well,

obviously

someone commonly referred to as gm would be a decent gm...
Joking aside, I do try to keep up with VCs. The past couple months have been madness so I wish I was able to do more of the flavour, but it (or bits of it) may still come as I now have nothing on my plate.
I like to watch the games I'm running to see what everyone is making of my setups. Also it's just fun This one kept me guessing in the later stages, especially when pie replaced in.
As far as the flips, a lot of that is just luck, I think.
As far as the switch argument, I don't think it implied either alignment. If anything it might have made him look more likely to be Scum, as Bulba might have had time to discuss the role in the QT.

Anyone have any gripes with the setup/mechanic?

[pieguyn]

<3 i just want to hug all of you right now. thanks

the major factor i just couldn't look past was SC had weird interactions with both scumteam members. i looked rly hard and just made the wrong conclusion. meanwhile, given a D1 bus, i wasn't expecting desp to be bussing the other teammate at the same time. re shadow, i figured it would probably be easier for scum to fake some of the genuine sounding notes when they were bussing, cause they don't have to worry about how they look, hence why i was looking for unfakeable notes outside of there

the other thing was i didn't get why desp scum kills emogirl n3. now that i know they were SK hunting, it just makes it feel even shittier

(shit like that is why i detest SK/multiball. even the possibility of one just messes shit up)

besides the way i thought sc was trying to mislead me, i did figure sc clearing me in LYLO was a pretty big town tell, but in the end i thought it made enough sense for sc scum to do that when weighed against everything else. on the other hand, desp's LYLO play was p much the only thing making me doubt he was town

i still don't understand why desp didn't just let me lead and lynch SC on D4 as opposed to attacking me over it. i would understand more about bussing, i think, if it's something i ever did myself

[pieguyn]

btw desp you're only the 2nd person to endgame me as town

i know how to read you now. so enjoy it while you still can

[StrangerCoug]

Yeah. If there's one takeaway from this game, it's that Desperado is the Red Baron and Titus is his wife. (She plays a good scum game, too—look at Mini 1,539.)

[goodmorning]

I considered putting an SK in the game, but then decided not to. But then everyone started getting really paranoid about it, which was hilarious.

[Bulbazak]

Mollie talks a lot.

I'm so glad that Desp was on the ball this game. I knew halfway through d1 that there was no way I was going to survive very far into the game and that I needed to die for our team to win. The only thing that would have made it better was if Yes was a little more on the ball. I was actually surprised that a wagon sprang up over something common that normally happens in RVS, but then again, I should stop discounting Mollie's tendency to be paranoid over every little thing. By the time I came back and was ready to actually play, it was already too late. I really should have ignored the game being up before I left to see Captain America...

[Infinite Jesters]

Mollie talks a lot.

I'm so glad that Desp was on the ball this game. I knew halfway through d1 that there was no way I was going to survive very far into the game and that I needed to die for our team to win. The only thing that would have made it better was if Yes was a little more on the ball. I was actually surprised that a wagon sprang up over something common that normally happens in RVS, but then again, I should stop discounting

Mollie's tendency to be paranoid over every little thing.

By the time I came back and was ready to actually play, it was already too late. I really should have ignored the game being up before I left to see Captain America...

when I am no longer around on this site these will be the last words I remember.

see pie? you will never be as bad as me.