Team Mafia General Thread

[zoraster]

@zoraster:
I mean that if one of the 13 teams gets 3 or 4 scum roles, that team probably has an advantage because scum generally win more often. Also, a perfect scum victory isn't nearly as impressive as a perfect town victory, nor is it probably any more difficult to achieve than a near-perfect victory.

Also, whether their team is intact is something that a given scum player can't necessarily control, while a given townie can do a lot more to prevent mislynches.

Ah. I see. I'll answer this in a few points:

1. I did discuss the possibility of a team getting an overwhelming number of scum or town roles before. The consensus then was that while it's fairly likely at least one team will get 3 scum roles, that's not necessarily a great advantage. First, we're going to do our best to actually balance the games 50/50. We may not succeed, but that's our hope. Second, it's a high risk high reward venture. In any game where you're scum, if you win you've improved your team's standing as compared to most other teams. But the flip side is also true. If you lose, most other teams will have improved their standing as opposed to your team.

2. I agree the town perfect game is considerably more difficult to achieve, which is why I made it worth 12 points compared to 10 for the scum victory. That's probably not even enough to take into account how much harder it is. But the problem is basically this: I need the points to be mostly symmetric for this to be fair. If I offer a perfect game incentive for town, I should also have something similar for scum.

To put it another way, I want to expected value of drawing scum to be equal to that of drawing town. If I've balanced the game 50/50 and there's a perfect game bonus for town but not scum, then the expected value of getting town becomes higher than scum, and that makes the overall setup flawed.

[Albert B. Rampage]

You know what, this isn't what it could be without having a Flay

and

a ReaperCharlie moderated large theme game in it. Sorry, good effort though.

[iamausername]

the number of players involved (52)

It's like a deck of cards!

I call Ace of Spades. If you want to be an Ace, better get on my team.

[GreyICE]

I don't mean to be an ass, but why is Dramonic designing this theme game? Has Vi or anyone reviewed it?

The last few Dramonic themes have been fun, perhaps, but balance was fucked to shit.

[PranaDevil]

I'm guessing that Zoraster, and perhaps even the other two mods, will look over all the other set-ups to be sure that each seems balanced.

Also, I'm definitely getting into this one. Brilliant concept. Just have to hope the guys I've PM'd want to join me.

[StefanB]

That sounds great, we will see if a team needs an extra player, but anyone who doesn't want to play in this?

[Maemuki]

I'm in if anybody wants me to be in their team.

[shaft.ed]

Two concerns.

1) Scoring will effect the outcome of the game differently than the roles wincon. I would take this into consideration as to whether or not it is a bug or a feature.

2) If teams aren't publicly listed until after game completion of all four games you don't have to worry about shenanigans with people gimping their faction in a game to prevent points from going to a competing team.

[Twistedspoon]

so is there a grand prize?

[AlmasterGM]

WTB: A team.

[animorpherv1]

I'm in if anybody wants me to be in their team.

Mae can join Klazam and me.

One more!

[zoraster]

I don't mean to be an ass, but why is Dramonic designing this theme game? Has Vi or anyone reviewed it?

The last few Dramonic themes have been fun, perhaps, but balance was fucked to shit.

It's funny you should mention Vi. I was this close to selecting him to do the theme (if he wanted to). We've worked together on games with success before, although in ways that are often exhausting for both of us. In the end I decided against it for a few reasons I won't go into here, but the main reason I didn't was I wanted him to play. I think his participation as a team captain would help the game as much as having him design. Speaking of which, I should probably tell him he needs to do that This is actually something that I've gone through with a LOT of potential mods (e.g. Hoopla would be a great choice for the normal mod, but I hope she'll play). When you need to fill 52 slots, each potential great player you use to mod is a big hit.

As for dramonic's games. First, I like the creativity of his games. I agree his focus generally isn't on balance. However, I'll be heavily involved in the design and balance of his game, and I think we can manage to capture his creativity and temper that with my focus on balance. Fonz is a new addition to the team, but he'll certainly be welcome to offer his insights.

That said, it'll likely be harder to know whether it's balanced than our other games. I wanted a variety of games played ranging from mountainous (white flag) to a normal game to a "normal" popular theme game to something crazy. Dramonic provides the crazy.

1) Scoring will effect the outcome of the game differently than the roles wincon. I would take this into consideration as to whether or not it is a bug or a feature.

It's a good question, and it's certainly something we're mulling over at the moment. However, I'm tending toward the "feature" side. Yes, it can influence how the game is played (although the premium is always on winning, so I wouldn't say the win con part is really sabotaged), but I think that's probably a good thing. Teams will have to make decisions on how aggressively they want to go for the "bonus" points. I'm sure it's something that we'll discuss again before we finalize anything.

That said, we're still discussing whether it makes more sense to move to a more binary system (although some of those negative points and the lylo points will likely stay).

2) If teams aren't publicly listed until after game completion of all four games you don't have to worry about shenanigans with people gimping their faction in a game to prevent points from going to a competing team.

This is also something I've been going back and forth on. There are pros and cons to revealing team identities and not. Revealing makes it feel like a more intertwined game but comes at the cost of more potential of shenanigans. The thing I do worry about is that not revealing teams doesn't solve the problem completely.

[Klazam]

Animorph- I'm out. I found two players. Need a fourth, though.

[PranaDevil]

Well, that's a full four man group on our end. We're all set to go, hurry up and shift to the top of the queue

Also, considering the game, should it really be in the mini queue? I'd say it's more a large theme due to the amount of players. Sure each individual game is a mini, but as each player will be overseeing the other games their team is playing, and it requires more than the amount a normal mini would (52 is definitely more than 13), it really is more like a large theme.

[zoraster]

Well, that's a full four man group on our end. We're all set to go, hurry up and shift to the top of the queue

Also, considering the game, should it really be in the mini queue? I'd say it's more a large theme due to the amount of players. Sure each individual game is a mini, but as each player will be overseeing the other games their team is playing, and it requires more than the amount a normal mini would (52 is definitely more than 13), it really is more like a large theme.

It's there because that was the solution that mith and the other list mods came up with. It works for me.

For what it's worth, signups will either be in a separate thread or in MD.

[Friend]

If anybody wants me in their team, I'm down too.

[Faraday]

Mmk. Working on something.

[Nero Cain]

Kise told me about this but I doubt anyone would want me on thier team.

[Kise]

Voltron will assemble, Nero. Give me a while to grab the other limbs.

[animorpherv1]

- Still looking for 2 more.

PM Maemuki and/or I if you are interested!

[xRECKONERx]

I was gonna get the CLA together for this.
Then I realized... I retired.

[Gammagooey]

This shoooooould be right as my exams are finishing up/are over.
If you want me on your team and are AWESOME (I've played with/was in their modded game for at least one team member and they were a cool guy) send me a PM.

[Kise]

I wonder if I can get Fate and Nero on a team..

[quadz08]

I wonder if I can get Fate and Nero on a team..

You could encourage it by saying that it would guarantee that they wouldn't be playing in the same game.

Also, so /in. I needs to find me a team.

[zoraster]

Just as an update, we have all our mods in place now. TheButtonman has kindly offered to run the open game