215: Slips of Paper Mafia: Mod Abandoned

[Talitha]

You're suggesting that we all write the same names down on our two slips tonight armlx? Explain how this would be helpful? I'm not trying to cast doubt, it's just my brain is working rather slowly.

[Enigma91]

I've been post restricted. All mine must be 25 words or less. Talitha, would allow us to figure out all potential targets, maybe find liars

[Save The Dragons]

Yes, you may reveal your strips as long as you don't quote from the PM.

[Fuldu]

I can see how armlx's plan could help us to narrow the target range, but I don't see how it's going to help us catch liars, Enigma. Since it was decided beforehand, everyone is just going to say that they submitted the two appropriate names and someone who receives a different name will only know that they're getting a slip from scum, not who that scum is.

[swinkee]

Hello all.

Random/force-of-habit vote: armlx

.

Unvote: armlx

. Nothing else to say right now.

[armlx]

Here how the plan works. Us 8 townies (assuming 9/3 set up, 7 if 8/3/1 or 8/4....) write the same names on 2 slips. Mafia writes whoever. When mafia gets their slips back, they have a decreased chance of targeting a non-scum player since we chose our 2 most likely to be scum people. This forces a green slip use, which in late game is crucial from what I see.

[Talitha]

OK< i see the benefits of that.

There are some downsides though... most important one is it's going to make it near impossible for us to figure out who is getting whose slips.

[VisMaior]

OK, one more thing. There was no kill today. That coould mean 2 things
docprotection or roleblocking
if the doc reveals who he protected, we could guess, whoes slips gets the maffia for sure. This should only work, when no green slips are present tough (and if maffia cannot send slips for another maffia member), as otherwise the doc is history.

STD can I ask, how the maffias green slips work? Every member has one or do they have only 1?

[VisMaior]

OK, it could go like this: who sent me a red BrianMcQueso? And after everyone stated wh ohe got and what colour, we sleep for a day. After we awake, someone got hurt. Everyone who wrote that name saiz "I sent that name, and yesterday XY got my slip" There still might be that multiple persons sent the same name.

conclusion: the mafia wont say who he got. Now what...
There will be a discrepancy in the names sent and the names gotten in. Mafia will have claimed to have got a name noone sent, or someone else claims to have gotten the same name, in wich case we have a pair of 1 scum and 1 other.

OK, now my head hurts... Is tehre value in this, or am i going crazy?

[armlx]

Its a really good idea. I'll be the first to do it.

Sent
AndrewS (red)
VisMior (blue)

Recieved
!Chucklez! (red)
Fuldu (blue)

My plan on sending slips was to cut off mafia kill access to high profile posters. Sorry guys ...

[VisMaior]

I wont be around until monday.

The next one should be someone who got one of yours. Any takers?

And, I claim to have sent you the red chucklez. And Im deeply hurt, that you tought, that Im a suitable mafiakillee...

Next time divide postcount by time between joining the board and now. I,m sure I will be much higher on your list.

[Phoebus]

A possible problem here would be if the mafia got extra green slips.
Remember the evil monks in Speedy's mafia had no restriction.

[Fuldu]

I'm going to step in here and say that I think this is potentially a bad idea. If there had been a kill last night, then this could narrow down our information about who could have committed that kill (except that it wouldn't because they'd just lie about it). But with a blocked kill, what it's going to do is narrow down for the mafia who might have prevented that kill. They know who they chose to target. If only one player received that name on a slip, there's a good chance that player is a doctor. If only one player received the name of the mafia who performed the kill, there's a good chance that player is a roleblocker. I feel like we're setting ourselves up to lose good roles soon (even if it costs the mafia their green slips, and Phoebus' point is a valid one there) in order to hope to catch someone in a lie down the road.

[BrianMcQueso]

Green slips will mess with the system a bit, but I can see those as emergency-outs; the cop is out in the open towards the endgame, and the doctor really needs to protect them, for example. I'm not sure if the Mafia would have extra slips, as they already seem really powerful at this point, since the town is targeting-restricted.

Another benefit of having everyone choose the same slips is that we can get a glimpse into the Mafia's thought patterns. If the town sends in all Player X slips, and I receive a Player Y slip in return, then I know who a mafia

wanted

to target.

I'm not sure how slipclaiming will help us, though. If the mafia lies about their slips, then it'll be difficult to figure out where the missing slips went. If the mafia tells the truth about their slips....how does that help us, again? I'm probably missing something obvious here.

Also, I think our lack of kill was due to a doctor. I doubt a roleblocker would fire on N1 with absolutely no information. Or maybe I just see RBs like I see Vigilantes, in that they should be played ultra-conservatively. It's just a personal philsophy, but I still think it's much more likely that a doctor saved the kill last night, as doctors should protect every night no matter what.

[halfpint]

I'm not sure how slipclaiming will help us, though. If the mafia lies about their slips, then it'll be difficult to figure out where the missing slips went. If the mafia tells the truth about their slips....how does that help us, again? I'm probably missing something obvious here.

You're not the only one Brian. I can't seem to wrap my brain around how slipclaiming helps us, especially since, like people have said already, the mafia will most likely lie about their slips.

VisMajor and armlx: you two seem to be the pushers of this plan. Care to shed some light?

[Talitha]

I haven't thought it through properly, but I would expect that if the mafia lie about which names they are putting on their slips, we should be able to figure out who is lying, or at least narrow it down a lot. No?

[Fuldu]

We'll be able to narrow it down some, but if they also lie about what names are on the slips that they're receiving (which, assuming they target from them, seems more likely than lying about what names they sent), it will complicate matter substantially. My larger problem, though, is still that today, at least, it seems like slip-claiming is more likely to reveal the doctor to the scum than to reveal the scum to the town. But if we don't do it today, it's likely to be that much less useful later.

[Talitha]

OK... but we don't have to reveal who we

chose

out of our two options.. do we? Yes it will help the scum narrow down the doc (assuming our lack of kill is due to a successful protection)... but we all have night choices right? There aren't any plain townies in the game so any player that we lose is likely to be useful in some way. It may even be that we have more than one doc, due to the limitations that we're all working with.

I'm tending towards a full reveal of slip choices... but not completely decided yet. Want to hear more opinions.

[Phoebus]

I find myself at a loss when strategising with these kind of games.
So I will just be reading along for now and going along with the majority backed strategy unless I see any major loopholes in it.

[armlx]

Here's the thing. If we all claim today and tommorow, we can easily figure out who got whose slip etc. Its a lot of info to the town to do this as we can then set up cop/doc chains and possibly other things that I won't say now.

[Fuldu]

Here's the thing. If we all claim today and tommorow, we can easily figure out who got whose slip etc. Its a lot of info to the town to do this as we can then set up cop/doc chains and possibly other things that I won't say now.

Three things: first, I don't think it's going to be "easy" to figure out who got whose slip; exactly one person (you) has indicated what slips he got so far, and already VisMaior has claimed to have sent you the red !Chucklez! slip that could just as easily have been from me. I doubt you're the only player who thought of the "limit access to high-profile players" plan, so I suspect we'll see a lot of those names.

Second, in order to gain any information about who's getting which slips from tomorrow's outcomes, we'd need to abandon the other suggested plan of limiting possible targets by having everyone put the same two names on their slips. Of the two discussed options, I think the target-limiting plan makes better sense than the chain-identification plan. It increases the likelihood of the scum targeting someone who is protected and allows us to direct investigations at suspicious players.

Third, even if we do figure out who's getting whose slips, we're not going to be able to set up "cop/doc chains" unless those players claim their roles, which seems like an exceedingly bad idea.

Why are you pushing this so hard, armlx? I don't see the value of it, but you tried to head off any discussion of the matter by simply saying it's a good idea and starting in. All this pressure to enact a plan I remain unconvinced is good for the town seems suspicious to me.

vote: armlx

[!Chucklez!]

I have a theory on the no-kills. I think the scum may only be able to kill the people who are on the slips that the GF gets. Maybe the person feeding the GF just got lucky and submited one with two scum. <shrug> It's a thought.

[armlx]

Wow, I'm an idiot. I just thought about it, and my crazy plan would not work in the slightest. I forgot about mafia sending different slips and some other stuff. I say our best bet is to send in low profile names to get killed so our better analysts stay alive.

[halfpint]

There aren't any plain townies in the game so any player

Is that true? I don't remember reading that anywhere, but I'm so confused in this game, that I may have just missed it.

[VisMaior]

OK, ill have to rethink the pros and cons of claiming. I`ll post my results later.