Newbie 167 - Game over

[BrianMcQueso]

Giric, claims shouldn't be thrown around like candy; they provide useful information to the scum as well as the town. For each townie claim we get, the mafia's chances of nailing our cop or our doctor increase, especially in a game this small. I certainly wouldn't want to push a claim out of someone who's leading the vote count because of random votes.

Fishing for claims is dangerous, Giric.

unvote Mathcam, vote GiricRedwolf

[Passdog]

Unvote BrianMcQueso

because of his very wise move in removing his vote.

FOS ViolentJ1427

@Brian: if fishing for claims is dangerous, what should we be doing instead?

[BrianMcQueso]

Finding scum. You've got to take note of people's behaviors, who they are voting for, why they are voting for that person, that kind of thing. We discuss who we are suspicious of while observing who others are suspicious of. Then, we as a town pressure those who we feel are suspicious, and then we get a claim out of them. Claiming will happen eventually, but it's the kind of thing we should put some thought into rather than asking three people who each only have two votes (for minor/negligible reasons) to just claim, seemingly out of nowhere.

I admit that this won't be the most logic-driven lynch, as we're on the first day with the least amount of information available and no night actions at our disposal, but we've at least got to try.

[Passdog]

A stupid question makes the asker look stupid I guess. Rather than asking how to play I was requesting a plan of attack.

Despite the first day's propensity for illogical lynches lets try to be as logical as possible.

A quick summary of my original theory on who might be mafia;

Either Brian or Fritzler must be scum
Either mathcam or Tyfo must be scum

As noted previously this theory is flawed. There is at least two other options for both scenarios.

The first, which can only be true for one group, is that none involved in that voting are scum (including the votee).

The second is that the voters are both town who luckily cast their first vote on a Mafioso. I am not prepared to entertain the idea of mafia voting for one another at this stage as I am trying to determine the person who is most suspicious from their actions at this time and such assumptions will only confound anyattempts at logical deduction at this stage.

Pre Post EDIT: I've been typing this post for about half an hour now and at some point came to the conclusion that mathcam and violent are the most likely to be scum (and that when one is shown to be so it should clear the other). How I came to these conclusion is lost to me as I fell asleep in my chair (I worked 12hrs construction labouring today) while thinking and am left only wth the conviction that one of these is right. I'll try to expand on it tomorrow night.

Actually this is a good time to mention that during the week around this time is the only time I will have time to post as I work 12hrs a day at the moment.[/quote]

[Phoebus]

Vote count:

1 Fritzler (giricredwolf)
1 giricredwolf (BrianMcQueso)

2 mathcam (Fritzler, ViolentJ1427)
2 ViolentJ1427 (mathcam, Tyfo)

Not voting: Passdog

4 to lynch

[mathcam]

My top two suspicions right now are Fritzler and giricredwolf...Fritlzer just from a vibe, and wolf from his post requesting claims so immediately. A defense of this request might alleviate this suspicion however...I await that. In any case,

Unvote: Violent

.

Cam

[Fritzler]

unvote, vote: giric

Why not put your vote on one of us if you find us suspicious?

[mathcam]

I thought that was pretty clear. You're my second choice, so there's no sense in voting for you when someone else is more suspicious. And I was giving giric a chance to explain himself before putting the vote on.

But the fact that you've now switched over to a bandwagon you expect to get bigger (since I've already stated my intentions to join it) makes you all the more scummier. I'm still going to wait for a post form giric before voting.

Cam

[giricredwolf]

First and foremost, I would like to say that I DID NOT say all three should claim. Here's what I said:

It would seem to me that it would be VERY smart of at least one of you three to do so.

AT LEAST ONE! Don't quote my words at me without making sure you've read them! This goes with everything I've seen in the past 3 games I've played, 2 of which were on these very boards. The general suggestion being that, if you have 2 votes on, time to claim, or a third guy's gonna jump on, and a fourth guy is gonna bandwagon. (These numbers, of course, change for the appropriate ratios.)

Now, I apologize for playing exactly as I have been lead to believe these things went here. Apparently I've been taught wrong. Excuse me. I'm sorry. I can't exactly take it back, but there it is.

Now, as for who is scum? That's what I'm here to find out. That's exactly what I'm trying to do. If they're all three townies? Great, wonderful. That leaves four of us that are possibly scum. It still makes my job easier. This is, by the way, a negative roleclaim, meaning I'm saying I'm not Mafioso.



P.S. I'm sorry if I sound a little offended, but I am. I was lead to believe that this game was played one way, and now you're directly telling me it isn't. Alright, fine. I'll get over it in about ten minutes.

Cheers.

[Tyfo]

I guess I will get rid of my random vote.

Unvote

.

[BrianMcQueso]

Firstly, Giric, I'm sorry if my suspicion of you seemed like a personal attack. It's tough, but you have to learn not to take them personally. I had the exact same problem in my first game of Mafia, and my overreacting is what got me lynched, costing the town the game. Over time, it gets easier to let the small things roll off you; after all, somebody's bound to be suspicious of you eventually, and in some situations, it might even be just a mafioso trying to cast false suspicion on you.

I was lead to believe that this game was played one way, and now you're directly telling me it isn't.

That, unfortunately, is a bad trend that's happening to MafiaScum. The game is becoming more and more claim-driven and less and less based on finding suspicious tells and looking at voting behavior. Games like Mith's Silent Mafia and Yaw's No Exit Mafia have used strange setups to get the game focused back on play skill rather than claim-wagons, which is a step in the right direction, but not all the way there.

Nevertheless, I hope you can understand why pushing for claims looks like suspicious behavior. These games are designed as a learning experience, and there's no better way to learn than putting you in the hot seat. My vote still stands, but I might move it after I hear more from the rest of the town. I'm not convinced you're scum, Giric, but you're my best bet for now.

[giricredwolf]

Heh... It wasn't the suspicion that got me, Brian, it was the mis-paraphrasing and me being offended at others, not just you. Don't worry about it, I'm good now. )

I completely see your point and will work on not doing the nasty claim thing. I am still new, and, hopefully, you'll be able to push me in the right direction, whethr you're Mafioso or not.

Now, let's get down to it... Who makes me suspicious...?

Still Fritzler. Why? He has 5 posts with nore more than one or two sentences in each. They include, in order, a vote for mathcam; a quote and a sentence with a link; a two-word sentence; a short question; and a votechange and a question that sounds like a devil's advocate question. Either he's more of a newbie than me (he's been on more than a month longer than me, so entirely possible), or he's toying with us.

Passdog is suspicous as he's trying to confuse us with the facts. (Yeah, I know, that sounds bad, but it makes sense to me.) He's the next possible suspect.

Of course, everyone is suspect, but I'm not positive yet...

New Vote Count, please.

[Fritzler]

Vote count:

1 Fritzler (giricredwolf)

2 giricredwolf (BrianMcQueso, Fritzler)

1 mathcam (ViolentJ1427)

Not voting: Passdog Mathcam Tyfo

4 to lynch

[Fritzler]

Still Fritzler. Why? He has 5 posts with nore more than one or two sentences in each. They include, in order, a vote for mathcam; a quote and a sentence with a link; a two-word sentence; a short question; and a votechange and a question that sounds like a devil's advocate question.

Yea, I know, this one is 5 sentences.

Either he's more of a newbie than me (he's been on more than a month longer than me, so entirely possible),

I probably am. Brian will attend, I suck. Mathcam prob will too.

or he's toying with us.

Yes, me and my suprisingly cat-like behaviour are toying with you.

[Passdog]

@giric: Confuse you with the facts? You are right that does sound bad and I would very much like to know how that makes sense to you. Especialy since I presented no facts merely theories.

In fact I would say that your statement sounds a lot like an attempt to deter attention from yourself to others.

The purpose for my previous posts were to attempt to generate some serious discussion rather than any reliance on gut feelings and ill framed votes. Regardless, discussion has commenced wihout me and as such I will abandon, for now, my attempts at logic.

I still think it worthwhile noting that ViolentJ was someone who put a thrid vote on a player, with little explanation, very early in the game. I think that this makes him very suspicious considering it would have only taken one mafia to vote had BMQ not withdrawn his vote first. If I haven't already done so

Fos ViolentJ1427

Perhaps an explanation is in order?Without an adequate one I am likely to vote for you.[/b]

[Phoebus]

Vote count:

1 Fritzler (giricredwolf)

2 giricredwolf (BrianMcQueso, Fritzler)

1 mathcam (ViolentJ1427)

Not voting: Passdog Mathcam Tyfo

4 to lynch

*official stamp*

[mathcam]

Giric, while I concede that Brian did err when he said you advocated three claims, you

did

at advocate at least one, so I think the twisting if your words was not quite as exaggerated as you seem to suggest. I'm quite willing to take your word that this is how you learned to play mafia, but it doesn't totally let you off the hook. It's still to the mafia's advantage to know where the power roles are. For example, you wrote

If they're all three townies? Great, wonderful. That leaves four of us that are possibly scum.

But just because they

claimed

townies doesn't mean they

are

townies. We'll have accomplished very little with eliciting three townie claims, while on the other hand, the mafia has learned a great deal about where the town's power roles lie. I'm just advocating that you be wary of pushing claims...there are usually far more benefits for the mafia that there are for the town.

Finally:

I was lead to believe that this game was played one way, and now you're directly telling me it isn't.

If there's one thing I hope you'll see in your first few games here, there's nowhere near

one

way of playing this game. That's part of its appeal...even very good players differ wildly on how they approach and play the game.

I'm willing to leave Giric alone for now...while his super-defensiveness could just as easily be from a frustrated mafia as a frustrated townie, I tend to lean toward townie. That leaves me with

Vote: Fritzler.

Cam

[mathcam]

Oh, and

I probably am. Brian will attend, I suck. Mathcam prob will too.

Hardly.

Cam

[Tyfo]

unvote, vote: giric

Why not put your vote on one of us if you find us suspicious?

Where did that vote come from?

[ViolentJ1427]

UNVOTE VOTE:GIRIC

[Tyfo]

That's the third person you've voted for this game ...

Give reason for?

[Fritzler]

unvote, vote: giric

Why not put your vote on one of us if you find us suspicious?

Where did that vote come from?

Um, cuz I thought he was scum?

That's the third person you've voted for this game ...

Give reason for?

Why do you need reasons for voting three different people? It's not like he's killing them. He has time to switch it. (Although that is three on Giric).

[Tyfo]

It just seems odd - to me - that the only thing he has said in the game so far is "My cpu is x reason". And he random voted; instantly changed it. and then voted this.

May just be that needs a reason for the action.

[Tyfo]

Insert I between that and needs ... and delete the s from need(s).

[ViolentJ1427]

I was just listing to find out who is mafia and i think that giric is so i voted for him