The Dead of Newbie 2111

[usesPython]

I'll be interest to see if

a certain player accidentally celebrates in thread about another PR kill again

.

Oh god I talked myself out of a correct d1 solve by re-reading the thread and trying not to tunnel

[T-Bone]

Honestly it was a good impulse to do so, just unfortunate how it played out for you.

[T-Bone]

I think your approach to the game is great. The one thing I would caution you from doing in the future is making reads based on activity or someone replacing out. It is against the rules for people to tactically replace out on MS (because you don't like your role or to gain an advantage for your slot), and thus its in bad taste to think another player has done so. I remember you saying about one of the replace outs that they couldn't be scum/power role since those roles are fun...but people usually replace out (or get forced replaced for inactivity) because of things outside the game. And even if not true for game integrity that's the expectation we put to players on the site. You'll definitely find pushback on that when you're not playing in newbies in the future.

[usesPython]

Yeah with the benefit of hindsight I think the only parts of my play that I consider correct was my read on

Black

; everything else was right for the wrong reasons, right but irrelevant, or wrong for the right reasons.

Spoiler: Reads

I think Weuler and Aureal were right for the wrong reasons, or at least not something that I can apply to reads in general. Realistically speaking I was probably reading too much into it. While there were specific techniques that I consider useful (such as breaking down the Aureal scumslip problem from "was it a scumslip?" to "these are the conditions necessary for it to be a scumslip. Did those conditions apply?") overall it'd probably be better for me not to base entire reads around only one or two posts

The HS read is in hindsight the kind of read I'd expect to see as an RVS joke, it's really bad.

The scumread on Black did bring up a pretty useful heuristic for finding active lurkers and it's one of the few parts of my play that I'd consider actively keeping going forward. Most townies in their attempt to scumhunt will take up reads that are partially affected by their personality, so they'll tend to have at least one unique take or personality trait that's memorable shine through. If you can't really say anything about someone when you should be able to it's something to look into further

Also the real takeaway here is that I should always tunnel my d1 solve

Spoiler: Rhetoric

No one reads wall-posts, so getting into wall wars is counterproductive for eliminating scum. It doesn't matter how accurate the reads that come from it are when no one is going to bother reading it. It's a problem with a two-part solution. Reads should be generated with shorter, more insightful questions and then argued for with shorter posts that address only the key issues instead of being bogged down solving every detail

Unfiltered and unedited posts might be good for getting my thoughts in order but they bog down the thread with misunderstandings that could have been avoided by spending an extra 5 minutes rechecking the post before hitting submit.

Most importantly, being rude to the person I'm arguing with is a complete failure of rhetoric and should be avoided as much as possible

Takeaway? Use the draft buttons

Spoiler: Resembling town

(I could probably name this better but I need the third R)

While I could get away with it this game because I was a FN, in future games I probably shouldn't play as town with the mindset of "it doesn't matter how scummy I look as long as I find someone scummier". Finding town is just as important as finding scum, so unnecessarily making the rest of the towns job harder probably isn't the best idea. Solution? Don't post unnecessarily scummy things

Likewise getting into long, drawn-out toxic arguments with people should be avoided as much as possible. If they're town it alienates the both of you and if they're scum there's better ways of finding it out and presenting your case in a way that doesn't look like you're just tunneling

Conclusion? Don't make it harder for town to do their job

Honestly I feel like this game was me mostly just having to get out of the Town of Salem Coven All Any mindset where statistically speaking two thirds of the role list is scum, most scum will die to other scum because of multiball + third-party, and rudeness is the norm. The overarching principles of my playstyle are still workable, the specifics of the implementation need work though

[Weuler]

Hmm looks like I'm good at PR hunting at least

[Weuler]

@Python your carefree "scummy" play was what made me consider you as FN. Also Aureal didn't really go after you D2 except for a halfhearted comment

[T-Bone]

It's unfortunate that Aureal is applying the reasoning to the wrong player but I love that Aureal recognized scum are more likely to think about the implications of what power roles might do.

[T-Bone]

I would also caution you future scum players to not back yourself into a corner when town reading. You know everyone else is town and you risk process of eliminating yourself by pointing out correctly what makes these players town.

[usesPython]

ngl Weuler I feel like your ability to have every one of your pushes seem opportunistic as hell is half of what's saving the game for scum here. It basically made me subconsciously start reading all your d1 pushes (Aureal/Black/STD) as town. There's a good chance I would have thrown 3p ELO if I was left alive

[Weuler]

Yeah I went a bit too far with my furtive push though. I wonder which players will be left by D4

[Freedom]

I would also caution you future scum players to not back yourself into a corner when town reading. You know everyone else is town and you risk process of eliminating yourself by pointing out correctly what makes these players town.

Agreed.
Also, a good thing to use if you see Town doing it.
It creates an easy mislim by pointing out how scummy it is for them to do it.

[usesPython]

Yeah I went a bit too far with my furtive push though. I wonder which players will be left by D4

Nah you were pretty dead there regardless, only thing left to do in that case is to set up miselims and get your partner townread

btw were you actually PR hunting Human d1 or was I reading too into it?

[Weuler]

There was the chance of cat being limmed first. And I wasn't hunting d1, I think most things I wrote regarding that "slip" was true

[T-Bone]

catboi joins us and soon one more will bite the dust

[usesPython]

Hi catboi, and sorry about 1122/1130. Like even in a scum!catboi game I had better ways of going about it instead of getting heated and posting what I did

[T-Bone]

Aureal also joins us we're getting full

[Aureal]

So much for my streak of not getting nightkilled.

[Aureal]

Yeah I guess you tried to jail me

I actually jailed Aureal as both a semi-likely killer and target.

Gosh darnit, Meg always scumreads me, even when claiming otherwise!

@Python your carefree "scummy" play was what made me consider you as FN. Also Aureal didn't really go after you D2 except for a halfhearted comment

Sigh. I was hoping I wasn't quite that obvious. But yeah, Python getting it really wasn't too useful, they didn't need to prove their towniness to anyone but me.

Well, I feel good that at least I was figuring out the Elements/catboi slot, just not with enough confidence to stop the others from going ahead with the elimination. It's going to be interesting to see how the last day goes- can furtive put down his ego enough to figure things out?

[T-Bone]

I don't know what Furtive will do, but I would have tried to set Human on Furtive rather than let Furtive decide my fate.

[T-Bone]

Protip: make a decision in LiLo, the mod wants the game to conclude!

[Freedom]

Skittles Fact: implosion doesn't know how to count to infinity.

This is interesting.

[Aureal]

Here's an outside-the-box question for you guys:

If you could resurrect a dead town player and swap them in for me today, who would it be and why?

Aureal. I TRed her more than you and we had similar feelings about Human

I don't know how serious that answer was (probably not very, since she like, KILLED ME) but I think she might be very sad if that actually happened. I could pretty easily vote her with the confidence that I was right either way.

[usesPython]

Wonder if Furtive will realize that in a Weuler/Human game there is no universe where Human plays for a Human/Black/Furtive endgame and then puts the vote on Black first instead of playing for a 3p ELO where Furtive gets miselim'd with like me or Aureal. Black was decently TR'd compared to Furtive, so why would scum ever force a 1v1 with them in ELO

[usesPython]

At this rate I half expect the game to end with a page 69 pagetop and a your mom joke

[T-Bone]

Don't worry in most games players make a decision in LiLo and live with it.