Mini 568 - Nubigena (Game over!)

[XReyoX]

Incognito has explained well on what I was trying to say. Dicevoting does NOT indicate someone is scum.

Lying is not a good behaviour and if I’d have to choose from two candidates who are equally scummy and get one of them lynch, I’d choose the lying one. HOWEVER, lying alone doesn’t indicate one is scum especially when the lie doesn’t give any benefit at all to the scum. If say, sammich lied that he is a sane cop and presented a guilty result on player X who is then revealed to be a town. I’d say he would be scum. But in the case of lying about dicevoting, I don’t see how a scum can benefit from it.

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Avoiding questions IS scummy. (sammich)
Rewinding IS also scummy. (near)

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Y:
I disagree with this.

Since I think Near is confusing the town and does whatever he can just to get some one lynched, I'll

Vote Near

.

To me, it seems like he really really thinks sammich is scum and is trying to prove it to us instead. I’d let him finish with that “test” before deciding whether he should be lynch. At the moment, the wagon seems too big to my liking.

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Imat:
A list can provide information for the scum to make better decisions with their NK. However, it allows the town to see a better picture of what direction a player is heading to and generate discussion as well. So, the best thing is to list and make cases against who you think is scummy but leave out the people who you think is town since that piece of info is useful to the scum but not so helpful for the town.

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I agree with ripley that it is suspicious that sammich has put a lot of his attention on the night start. To a townie, it just means the potential cop out their has done an investigation (i guess?) and the vig is dead. It means almost nothing.

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Ripley:
The request was serious.

[Y]

I have some thoughts about Near's accusations:
1. Joke = Random vote. I don't think he meant that the procedure he wrote was a joke. You're straw-manning.

I am not exactly sure what you mean here. Are you saying that you think his procedure was a joke? No, that's not what he said. Re-read his posts that he wrote after and tell me you think he's joking.

What I'm saying is that Sammich said "Fine it was a joke vote" meaning "Fine, it was a random vote". I believe so because he referred to all the other random votes as joke votes too.

2. As been pointed before me, you give priority to a somewhat irrelevant action, while ignoring completely one which is much more relevant.

This is your opinion. I have something I want to say once Sammich responds to my question.

Read the whole sentence please. I'm not the only one who thinks so.

3. You keep using the same argument, blowing it out of proportion.

I feel that this is an important piece of information, and I find Sammich very suspicious because of it.

Since you believe it's so important, could you please tell me what advantage will he gain that merits such a procedure just to self vote? What gives him more advantage this way than if he would have just said that he votes himself, without the dice?

4. XReyoX asked you what "test" was it that Sammich passed, but you decided to just say he's right by agreeing with you that there was a "test".

Completely wrong. Once Sammich answers my question and I present my view, I think you will believe me. That is, you might still say my test was not very useful depending on how Sammich answers, but I am confident that townies will find my explanation genuine.

Your not answering my point.
After XReyoX wrote this:

Near:
Test?

You used it as if XReyoX agreed with you that it's a test. You misrepresented his words as if he was supporting you, while he was actually questioning you.

I think Sammich had nothing to gain with his dice roll and I'm sorry I even brought it up in the first place. This whole discussion leads nowhere and it's halting our progression.

What's halting our "progression" is Sammich not answering my simple question: Who he thinks are scums and why. After that, I promise I will make no more than 3 posts regarding this dice incident if you guys want me to stop. This is what I ask, and I think it's fair.

Most of the discussion since page 7 is about this whole "dice roll" thing. It added nothing and I can't see it adding anything new. That's why I believe you're the one that's keeping us from progressing.

Since I think Near is confusing the town and does whatever he can just to get some one lynched, I'll Vote Near.

Mod:

Can we have a vote count?

Do not lynch me until I have the chance to respond to Sammich's answer to my question.

You're at L-2. We're not lynching you yet, but you're not giving me any good reason not to do so.

[XReyoX]

2. As been pointed before me, you give priority to a somewhat irrelevant action, while ignoring completely one which is much more relevant.

This is your opinion. I have something I want to say once Sammich responds to my question.

Read the whole sentence please. I'm not the only one who thinks so.

I agree with Y to a certain extent on this one. Near is not focusing on the more meaningful scumtell IMO. The thing I'm not sure about is whether he is ignoring (intentionally) or missing (unintentionally).

Near:
Test?

You used it as if XReyoX agreed with you that it's a test. You misrepresented his words as if he was supporting you, while he was actually questioning you.

Simply misunderstanding. Not a scumtell i think.

You're at L-2. We're not lynching you yet, but you're not giving me any good reason not to do so.

1)We have more than 2 weeks until the end of the day.
2)He is very active and we will be able to get more information out of him if he is scum.
3)We need to wait for more people to respond to this.

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Near:
You said sammich has passed your test already. Then why do we have to wait for more responses from him?

[Mafiaplayer]

[b]Unvote, Vote:Near[/b]

[XReyoX]

MP:

Reasons please.

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[Mafiaplayer]

Unvote, Vote:Near

If four people voted him, not all of them could have been scum.

[Incognito]

Errr... L-1 already? I'd like to hear more from Ripley and others before placing him this close to lynch. No need to be hasty.

Unvote

[Near]

After MafiaPlayer's vote on me, I am at L-1.

There must be at least one town that has voted me. Someone unvote and put me back at L-2. I am asking this because Sammich's vote is currently on himself, and I think there is high chance he might decide to lynch me.

Let me at least get a chance to question Sammich before I die.

[XReyoX]

Thats the reason why I don't want MP here. We'll always have to leave a leeway to prevent someone being lynched prematurely just in case MP suddenly jumps on.

[XReyoX]

And his reason doesn't even make any sense at all.

[Near]

Thank you Incognito. Now to respond to Y's post:

What I'm saying is that Sammich said "Fine it was a joke vote" meaning "Fine, it was a random vote". I believe so because he referred to all the other random votes as joke votes too.

Hmm. Upon a re-read you might be right. But isn't this obvious? Dice voting on the first page obviously is a joke. It provides no content. But anyway, I misinterpreted his post.

Since you believe it's so important, could you please tell me what advantage will he gain that merits such a procedure just to self vote? What gives him more advantage this way than if he would have just said that he votes himself, without the dice?

Personally, I don't think Sammich can gain anything even if he can prove to us that he used dice in real life to do a random vote. At first I thought that Sammich *might* have thought that doing a random vote and illustrating that he actually followed the dice result even if it meant for voting himself would have made him look like a "fair player". But this is not that significant. The reason I find this important is that I don't think he actually rolled the dice. Less than two mintues.

He also remembers which pip on the dice represented who? That's at least 10 players. After 11 days of time, especially if we assume the whole set-up process and the dice rolling and the posting the result on this forum took less than 2 minutes time, I think this is impossible.

[Near]

You used it as if XReyoX agreed with you that it's a test. You misrepresented his words as if he was supporting you, while he was actually questioning you

I did not misrepresent his words as if he was supporting me. When I wrote the post saying "Sammich you passed my test", I thought it might have been a little obvious that I was lying. When XReyoX followed up with a "test?" I actually blamed him for saying so. I wanted to make it unknown to Sammich if possible. But it doesn't really matter, now that i think about it.

Here's a question for you Y and the others. If you knew for certain that Sammich lied and made up the dice roll incident, would you think he's a scum? How likely?

[Near]

Ok here's another question for the field: Do you think Sammich rolled the dice in real life?

[XReyoX]

Near:
Why is it soo soo sooo important that you need to know whether sammich lied about his dicevote?

[Y]

Here's a question for you Y and the others. If you knew for certain that Sammich lied and made up the dice roll incident, would you think he's a scum? How likely?

No, I wouldn't. It's something so irrelevant, and I believe that doing the actual roll would be much easier than inventing the whole story.

Accusing him for making that up is stupid if you ask me.

Ok here's another question for the field: Do you think Sammich rolled the dice in real life?

Yes. As I said: making that story up is harder than actually doing what he claims he did, and lying about it has no real purpose.

I'll say it again: I believe this whole "dice" thing is irrelevant, the accusation is stupid, and we're all wasting our time.

Any other question?

[Mafiaplayer]

I agree. The dice is irrelevent to scumminess. Now, some one hammer Near.

[Near]

Near:
Why is it soo soo sooo important that you need to know whether sammich lied about his dicevote?

XReyoX, this is what I think. If sammich has lied about the dice thing, he is very likely to be a scum. Do you not agree?

[jerubbaal]

Unvote

My faith in MP's vanilla claim is rapidly deteriorating.

Anywho, I for one think it is fairly relevant. If he did make the whole thing up, it shows an over-concern for justifying himself, something more inherent to scum than townies. Not full-proof, but I'd be strongly inclined to think that he was scum if he purely made it up to justify himself. The intricacy/inanity of it inclines me to believe that it was made up.

XRX, I'm curious why you're dissing this whole investigation now. You did bring it up in the first place.

[Near]

Here's a question for you Y and the others. If you knew for certain that Sammich lied and made up the dice roll incident, would you think he's a scum? How likely?

No, I wouldn't. It's something so irrelevant, and I believe that doing the actual roll would be much easier than inventing the whole story.

Accusing him for making that up is stupid if you ask me.

I didn't ask you if you think sammich lied. I asked you if sammich has lied even if it's something so irrelevant, and kept insisting on his *story*, and turned out that he was lying, would you not suspect him? I am guessing your answer is no, but since you convoluted your answer by stating answer to my second question, feel free to clarify yourself.

Ok here's another question for the field: Do you think Sammich rolled the dice in real life?

Yes. As I said: making that story up is harder than actually doing what he claims he did, and lying about it has no real purpose.

I'll say it again: I believe this whole "dice" thing is irrelevant, the accusation is stupid, and we're all wasting our time.

Any other question?[/quote]

Feel free to bring up other points regarding this game. I will happy to share my thoughts/respond to your other points. I am still going to pursue this until I am satisfied, regardless of you think this is stupid or not. I will try not to flood this game with dice posts from now on, unless 1) it's responding to other people's comments or questions regarding it OR 2) it's responding to Sammich's answer to my question.

At this point i almost feel like there are 5 scums in this game.

[XReyoX]

Near:
Why is it soo soo sooo important that you need to know whether sammich lied about his dicevote?

XReyoX, this is what I think. If sammich has lied about the dice thing, he is very likely to be a scum. Do you not agree?

No, not really. What i think is lying about the diceroll achieve nothing in favour for the scum. It probably means he is a stupid liar only.

[XReyoX]

Unvote

XRX, I'm curious why you're dissing this whole investigation now. You did bring it up in the first place.

I brought up the idea that I think sammich lied, but I don't think i started the investigation. I'm curious to know about it because when I first saw sammich's huge stunning post about how fair his diceroll is and saw that he did it in 1-2 minutes, it made me think "lol, sure, in 1 minute".
I'm asking to end this because people are only commenting on it and Near is like" We NEED to find out if sammich has lied about his dice. If he has he MUST be scum" which is not not true. Then now people are saying "Near IS scum because he is attacking sammich for his diceroll" which again I don't agree is a reliable piece of evidence that indicate he is scum. I'm sorry for bringing it up.

[XReyoX]

Anywho, I for one think it is fairly relevant. If he did make the whole thing up, it shows an over-concern for justifying himself, something more inherent to scum than townies. Not full-proof, but I'd be strongly inclined to think that he was scum if he purely made it up to justify himself. The intricacy/inanity of it inclines me to believe that it was made up.

I agree with this. Thats why I'd choose to lynch a liar over a non-liar if they look equally scummy to me.

[Near]

Near:
Why is it soo soo sooo important that you need to know whether sammich lied about his dicevote?

XReyoX, this is what I think. If sammich has lied about the dice thing, he is very likely to be a scum. Do you not agree?

No, not really. What i think is lying about the diceroll achieve nothing in favour for the scum. It probably means he is a stupid liar only.

If Sammich admitted to lying earlier, I would have less problem with him. It's the fact that he kept insisting on justifying himself that if he is indeed lying, I think there is very high chance he's the scum.

[XReyoX]

At this point i almost feel like there are 5 scums in this game.

You wouldn't mind pointing them out and do some explanation, do you, Near?

[Near]

At this point i almost feel like there are 5 scums in this game.

You wouldn't mind pointing them out and do some explanation, do you, Near?

I know there can't be 5 scums. I just felt like whoever was attacking my argument as completely useless and waste of time were scums.