Newbie 839 - Game over

[Maemuki]

Oh, ok. I know what you mean though.

[Feeres]

Really, yes. Most people don't even seem to bother to defend themselves when accused of something. By the looks of it, I predict that by the time of deadline replacements will come in, post what they think of the game so far, nobody really cares and we just end up lynching someone with very few votes.

See, CSL is uninterested in trying to fight for his survival through D2 while he has most votes (2) on him and prefers to just wait for D3. DDD has a theory about Maemuki being scum I assume, something to do with D1 nk I'd guess but since neither of them are really pursuing the matter, we don't know anything about it and nothing really happens with the later posts on that matter. Bub had a vote on him for hammering and he did actually defend himself enough that votes on him were removed, yet suspicions remain for the hammer.

I say we wait what Starbuck, skitzo's replacer, has to say about the game and then get some votes in. Town can't just win by sitting on their hands throughout the game.

[Bub Bidderskins]

I think that DDD's whole night kill thing was pretty trivial, and I don't think it holds any water.

Theory: He killed Ibramagic then used his logic to blame it on one of the SE.

Keep in mind that just because he's the one who suggested the theory doesn't make him imune to it. As a matter of fact, it applies to him even more than the SE's.

At the moment, however, it's just a theory and nothing more. As of now, I'm not liking CSL's play and can understand Raskol not posting. Feeres seems to be really helping the town, while Maemuki is still coming up as neutral on my scumdar. I can't get any read on Starbuck, having only made a single post in the game.

I also find it depressing how many replacements we've had to go through.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

Theory: He killed Ibramagic then used his logic to blame it on one of the SE.

Keep in mind that just because he's the one who suggested the theory doesn't make him imune to it. As a matter of fact, it applies to him even more than the SE's.

WIFOM but truth: If I had killed Ibramagic I certainly wouldn't have come out and told you why I did it and then try to pin it on someone else using logic that could implicate myself as well. I would've ignored the night kill as usual and hope it helped crush the town into submission as it frankly helped to do.

I want everyone in their next post to say whether they think Raskol or Maemuki is scummier and why. I don't care if you think they're both scum, I don't care if you think they're both town, which one is scummier and why.

[Starbuck]

Mod - Can you please update the first post showing that I replaced skitzo?

[Starbuck]

Mod - I also in the first post, it says that the Day 2 deadline was yesterday. Is this still in affect? Are we extended and until when?

[Starbuck]

Starting on Page 1

On my predecessor, Skitzo

I don't understand his whole argument on how to spell schizophrenic, when he is clearly in the wrong.

He just seems completely lost even though he's been on the site for a few months now.

On Maemuki

I have played one game (Newbie 817) with Maemuki before. In that game, I replaced in on Day 1 and was scum, she was lynched Day 1 and flipped town because she wasn't contributing anything to the game. She was posting a lot of fluff, and when she was called out for lurking, she would post some paragraph long excuse about how she couldn't post. It seems like she's doing the same thing here. I haven't seen her contribute much so far.

These following 2 quotes bother me:
Post 68:

And, what will we do now? Ask questions would work, but seeing as Diakron does not feel like answering them....if he was not at L-2, I would vote for him. I'm terrified of quick lynches.

Post 70:

Oh. Let some of the lurkers get here first before we put him at L-1, possibly making the conditions for a quick lynch.

In 68, she says she's terrified of quicklynches, but in post 70, she says that as long as the lurkers weigh in, it would be okay to put him at L-1 and creating the conditions of a quicklynch.

On Raskol

Hmm, well, my current vote isn't random, so I'd say I've already been out of the RVS since my second post.

So explain how you can be out of RVS when everyone else isn't.

I definitely don't think that your spam between posts 60 and 67 did anything to help move the game along, but it does make me suspect.

I definitely think Raskol has been very overaggressive. He keeps ragging on Bub and Diakron being a scumteam via posts 79 and 84. I do think his question to Bub at the bottom of post 84 is a bit loaded. Someone can still agree with someone else about the possibility of a person being a good lynch without voting for them. He seems to be putting a lot of pressure on Bub and Diakron for very small things.

Post 85 also bothers me because instead of stating why a no lynch isn't okay, he just says that it's not.

He has definitely been rude and rather out of line as well, this post is a very good example:

Forgot, eh? That sounds like

bullshit

a perfectly reasonable excuse.

Also, appeal to emotion noted. Your finger hurts, but apparently not so much that you can't tell us how much it hurts, and it means you can't type, except to tell us you won't be posting for a while.

I feel so sorry for you and totally will excuse your future lurking and your previous scumtells (not).

After all of that bickeing with Diakron, he unvotes him and votes Bub with no reasoning whatsoever. Although based on the posts surrounding it, I'm thinking that he didn't want Diakron to claim.

On Bub Bidderskins

No, scratch that last post. Every one of us has voted except for Danny, even though Danny has been around and talking about stuff, he has not voted. Why would he do that? Is it simply because he does not know who to vote for.

Or is it because he is scum and is waiting to convince some of the other people to change their vote so he can lynch a townie and give the scum a double kill?

I will have to ponder this over time...

There are plenty of people on this site that just don't vote during RVS. Some people prefer to wait until they see something that they find scummy before voting. It's a definite null tell. I don't like that you think DDD is holding up the game because he hasn't voted in RVS.

Okay, we need to calm down,

stop accusing people

, and actually catch some scum. That is the reason why DDD isn't voting. He was sitting back and waiting for somebody to do something stupid.

I just wanted to emphasize the bold. How do you expect to catch scum without accusing people? You definitely contradicted yourself here.

My opinion on Diakron huh? Well, I don't know any more. He says he's played Mafia on another site and doesn't know what an RVS is, as well as taking the RVS way too seriously. I'm starting to think that it was all a facade to make him look like an overeacting noob who could not possibly be scum. For that reason, FOS Diakron.

I played mafia on another site (View Askew) before I came here, and I didn't know what RVS was until I started playing here. Different sites play different ways. It took me awhile to get the hang of how things were done on MS, as I'm sure it takes people coming from other places awhile as well. This is a very, very weak case. I'm surprised that no one else has pointed this out yet.

I definitely do not like Bub's reaction to Raskol's change of votes via Post 100.

Well, Diakron also took the RVS too seriously and yet he still claimed to have played the same game on a different site. Still, I admit that on different sites they might have different customs and abbreviations.

I really don't see where Diakron took the RVS too seriously having just recently read it over. You keep referring back to that point like it's a huge deal.

Also, you actually admit how weak your case is here! Why did no one pick up on this?

I also think that Diakron seems scummy for acting like a noob, then saying he's played the game somewhere else, and then posting as if he'd just given up.

And look! Here he goes contradicting himself on the noob point again!

On CSL/Diakron

I know CSL has now replaced Diakron, but I still found a few things odd about Diakron.

I think Diakron was taking the game a bit seriously, but I didn't feel this way until post 42. In RVS, it really didn't seem like he was being as serious as Bub has been trying to paint him to be.

It also bothers me that Diakron brings up how in his others games that he played, the players go after the lurkers. I definitely agree that lurkers are a pain in the ass, but I think this point alone is damning for CSL. My reasoning behind this is that he again states this in the last line of Post 77, specifically referring to Ibrahimagic (who ends up being the Night 1 kill).

I know that it did take me awhile to get used to playing on MS, and I can understand why Diakron felt defeated.

On Tehstefan

I think Tehstefan hit the nail on the head here about Raskol.

You seem far too ready to force us into decisions, and while it may just be ancy, perhaps your trying to rush us into a mislynch? Its a thought that keeps coming up, especially with your erratic nature. Still, it may be your just bored, and want to move on. Hence only a FOS, and a small one at that.

So far, I think Bub and Raskol are both very scummy for being all over a newbie in a NEWBIE game. MS has a different style of doing things than any other site. It bothers me that neither of these two take that factor into consideration.



Ending at the bottom of Page 5.

[Starbuck]

Starting at the top of page 6

On my predecessor, skitzo

Wow, his post 143 just threw me for a loop. Remind me to not play any games that this guy is part of.

On Maemuki

I find it very odd that Maemuki is all over Del about his random vote, but doesn't realize that she still has her random vote on until Raskol points it out.

EBWOP: If your reasoning that I'm a lurker, I'm sorry to say there is indeed far worse lurkers than me. Why has no one commented on Ibrahmagic's lack of posts, while commenting on mine? Seems like better reasoning could be used here than is.

Blame the next person! Blame him damnit! [/typicalscumbehaviour]

I would bandwagon him, if I believed in that logic! I personally don't feel that your reasoning holds up, so I don't follow it. I want solid fact before I go to lynch someone

Welcome to Mafia. Unless you're a cop/scum, you never know anybody's alignment for sure. Live with it.

Now my vote isn't parked on anyone.

And that will make us believe that you're town...because?

So you think taunting is going to help the scumhunt? How about now that he flipped town? The thing of this all is that Teh is completely right! There were people who were less active than he was.

There is absolutely no reason to be this rude. This is a newbie game and you are an SE, act like it.




I definitely think that all of the experienced players pounced all over Tehstefan, and that it was very opportunistic for scum. It was a quicklynch if I've ever seen one.

Let's take a look at the bandwagon:

Tehstefan - 5 - Debonair Danny DiPietro, Raskol, Maemuki, Del, Bub Bidderskins

DDD votes in Post 132 just to shamelessly bandwagon. DDD votes for Teh for no reason other than this.

Raskol jumps on in Post 138.

Maemuki jumps on in Post 141 which is rather hypocritical in my eyes because she barely is posting to begin with.

Del jumps on in Post 164 with no reason attached.

Bub hammers in 166 because he thought he was already voting for Teh, and he parrots off almost everyone else on the wagon.

On DDD

DDD finally comes back in Post 153 with sketchy case at best.

His first reason is Teh's random vote on Bub, which now that we know Teh's alignment, makes you look very scummy.

His second reason is because he shows no interest in scum hunting and phrases everything in a question. Are you guys forgetting that this is a newbie game? And DDD, as an IC (scum or not), you should definitely be more helpful, like maybe answering the guy's questions?

His third reason I can see, and I really have no qualms with it.

His fourth reason is his lack of contribution. If I remember correctly Teh has been more active than skitzo, Ibrahimagic, or Del at this point. So why wasn't there a push on either of their lynches?

There was nothing but tunneling on Teh while you guys let the other three sit to the wayside.

Well, it depends on the flip, but I'd say Del and Bub have some explaining to do tomorrow O_o.

I definitely agree with this. I see where Del would put Teh at L-1 for claim purposes, but Bub's quick hammer makes him more suspicious to me than Del.


Before he's lynched Teh makes some very good points in the following posts:

Why? For several reasons. One, he was awfully quick to switch to me right after I was being bandwagoned, even though before then he'd been quite firm on considering Diakron scum. As well, His reason, saying my reasoning was weak and scummy, was already said, he brought no new points to the argument. As for not posting until I got high numbers, thats not true, since I did at several points point out different things. He seems all too quick to throw his hat wherever the most votes are, which to me seems scummy.

EBWOP: Just thought of this, his comment about forgetting seems awfully scummy, excusing himself for it so he wouldn't be considered suspicious?

Ending at Night 1

[Feeres]

Starbuck, welcome to the game. Deadline was extended to the 21st in post 267, so we have one more week to go still.

Bub, the theory was that newbie scum team would kill someone who accused one or more member being scum, while more experienced team would kill someone with no connections to them. Both you and DDD are right about what you say though, DDD is potentially a scum because of this but it also does a WIFOM make when he is the first one to bring this up.

Raskol and Maemuki have very different styles of playing. Raskol goes with active, aggressive posting mixed with some useless content and fluff. Maemuki posts here and there, not as much content, not very aggressive, bit of fluffy yes.

I took the time to meta a bit on Maemuki because of what she said and I compared two games which have ended. One had her as scum, and she would be making posts which ended somehow implying that the person in question was scummy, the other game had her as town and she didn't really post too much content for me to see any patterns, yet there wasn't any scum implying in the same way as when she was playing scum. This game Maemuki has been doing the latter, which I would meta as town. I haven't metad Raskol yet, I'll do it later if I see it necessary.

Granted, Raskol is doing a lot of questioning and pointing out inconsistensies with people's statements, so my personal judgement from all of this is that Maemuki is scummier than Raskol. I don't give too much weight to metaing, but I do give weight to scumhunting. That is why I find Maemuki more scummier, actively pursuing scum is a very strong town trait IMO.

[Starbuck]

Starting at the top of page 6

So why is it that now on Day 2 that you guys finally realize how much lack of posting skitzo and Del have done?

On Maemuki

The new day dawns and she immediately votes Bub instead of waiting for his explanation. She immediately jumps right into tunneling Bub because he was the hammer. She only starts considering Del once DDD mentions him.

Anyways. I wanted to see his reactions to those pseudo-serious questions - and then decide whether to bring stuff to a real wagon, or unvote because he started posting. Which he never did, because he was lynched.

How can you say this when his wagon wasn't based on anything serious? DDD only gave some type of reasons after his bandwagon was in full force.

Anyway, what do you mean, bring stuff to a real wagon?

I mean - see if was really scummy or not.

You voted for him, so you obviously thought he was scummy.

Well, I'm waiting for a response from her before I vote, but I'm going for Maemuki atm, because of that post and her explanations for it, and the incongruence of both of those with the rest of the game she's played.

So, just because I wanted to put pressure on somebody to see if they're scum, I'm scum. Yeah, makes sense to me!

You still didn't respond to him. It seems like you are purposely ignoring it.

Feeres should know that I'm not one to take firm stances as town. You probrably didn't know, but you do now. If you want meta (I don't see why, but people are asking more about my meta this days), go and find my first game on this subforum.

You seemed to take a pretty firm stance on Teh. Nice slip.

Vote: Maemuki

On Bub Bidderskins

Maemuki calls him out on parroting in Post 181, which I know I definitely saw as well. He comes back in the next post repeating that he thought he had already voted.

Here's what bothers me about this. He was completely focused on Diakron all Day 1, and his vote was there. How can you forget where your vote is when it's been there for a good part of the Day?

He tried to revive the game when it was dormant, something a mafia would not do.

The above quote is about Raskol. Why wouldn't the mafia try to revive the game? Wouldn't you think that they'd want to win?

He did push forward the lynch on Tehstefan, but there was ample, townie reason to do it, and I'm sure those four other people who voted for him (including myself) thought the same thing.

Please read my previous post about the Teh bandwagon. I completely disagree with you that all of DDD's reasons were pro-town.

The last line of this is completely WIFOM. You need to stop speaking for others.

On CSL

He states here and here that he's working on an analysis post. He states here that he's half way through it, but here he states that his other games are more important when he hasn't contributed at all to this one. He then says in Post 242 that he can't make an analysis post until Day 3? Wtf?

Well, I'm saying this. Diakron did not play well. His play is making me look really bad.

Where is a votecount when you need one?

Trying my best to get the others...

I don't care for this post at all. The whole first line is an appeal to emotion, and I'm not sure what he means by the last line.

First off, curse Diakron for not making me look neutral upon replacing him.

Second off, I have really huge suspicions for skitzo, due to his not posting for a whole week, but depends on what happens to him is where my vote goes.

Del seemed scummy, but once his replacement jumped in, it blew me off course. If Del was still in the game, I would've voted him.

Bub seemed a bit off-course Day 1, but there really isn't anything to go by in Day 2.

Everyone else is either flawless, or un-readable.

Hey look! More AtE at the beginning of this post.

It's really easy to suspect someone who never posted anything to give you anything to be suspicious about.

I really don't see how everyone can be flawless or un-readable. This is why you should do an analysis when you replace into a game.

Well, um . This is kind of weird. Del sent me a PM talking about the game. Is it legal to discuss the PM?

Was this ever settled?

[Starbuck]

So now that I've completed my analysis (well before CSL who replaced in before me, I might add), any questions for me?

[Raskol]

Do you think rudeness is alignment relevant?

[Starbuck]

Do you think rudeness is alignment relevant?

No, but I do think that it's not needed in such a heated game as mafia. It only makes you look like a bigger jerk.

[Raskol]

Well, you're free to think that.

[Starbuck]

Well in a Newbie game, I really think there is no place for rudeness. As SEs, you and Mae should be trying to help orientate the newbies into how things are done here rather than make them feel like crap.

[Raskol]

People being less than entirely nice to you when you act scummy

is

part of how things are done here, though.

[Starbuck]

Sarcasm, okay, but the two things I quoted from you and Mae are completely and utterly rude.

You guys didn't even bandwagon Teh for any reason other than the fact that he was the lucky one. At least he was participating at the time, compared to the other people who weren't.

Then to rub it all in his face, I'd be surprised if that guy never comes back here.

[Starbuck]

Anyways, you have now driven us completely off subject.

Do you have any questions that pertain to the game?

[Raskol]

Actually, that was pertinent to the game, since in your humongous wall of text you said that Bub and I were scummy for being mean. I don't really even think anyone was being all that harsh, but w/e.

TBH though, wrt him leaving, I'm not sure if someone who lurks that bad and can't take some game-restricted non-personal confrontation would be a good fit for playing mafia here anyway. Better to act like you would in a real game and let them know what it's really like. If they can't take it---well, at least they've wasted less of their (and our) time.

But as for another question regarding the game---you disapproved of the Teh wagon.

What would you have done at that point to keep the game alive and get people posting?

[Starbuck]

The only reason I disapproved of the Teh wagon was because there were other people who weren't posting at all. At least, he was making some effort.

I would hope for better and more interference from the mod on prods and such. That's their job as a gamerunner. It seems like stark has a lot going on in her personal life, and it hasn't really helped the game at all. No offense, stark.

[Raskol]

He only started posting after we started wagoning him. I don't like the fact that he was hammered, and if he hadn't moved from L-2 to dead so quickly I would have unvoted, but the wagon was still the only thing that got him into the game.

There were other people who also weren't posting, and if Teh hadn't been hammered we might have been able to get them in with the same method. But we could only start out with one, and he was as good a choice as any.

[Starbuck]

I know how you feel about Diakron. How do you feel about CSL and his basic refusal to offer anything of substance to the game?

[Starbuck]

I mean CSL replaced in on September 23rd and still hasn't given an analysis at all. I replaced in yesterday and caught up today.

[Raskol]

I know how you feel about Diakron. How do you feel about CSL and his basic refusal to offer anything of substance to the game?

Well, my vote is on him. That should tell you something.

[starkmoon]

CSL 2 Raskol, Feeres
Starbuck
Bub Bidderskins
Feeres
Raskol
Maemuki 2 Debonair Danny DiPietro, Starbuck
Debonair Danny DiPietro


Not Voting

CSL
Maemuki
Bub Bidderskins

(No offence taken Starkbuck - my home life went completely insane about 2 weeks into these games and I feel really bad for not being able to give them the attention they require)