Mini 1140 - Mafia Mishmash...Game Over!!

[bgg1996]

Give me even a single decent reason why you would ask that question.

Because I didn't believe that he would answer, and it would set the right state of mind for my question to the mod.

[vollkan]

Give me even a single decent reason why you would ask that question.

Because I didn't believe that he would answer, and it would set the right state of mind for my question to the mod.

This makes absolutely no sense

[Surprise_Carcinogen]

I can neither confirm nor deny my identity at this stage. I just have seen far more small games like this have vig then I have seen them have SK, and even FEWER have a second mafia group. And, at this point, we can only work statistics. There is no chance of actually KNOWING anything, yet.

[bgg1996]

Is there a reason I shouldn't ask the question?
Sure, if he actually had to answer it would make me seem like scum, but if he isn't going to tell me, then it's fairly obvious that it's not going to actually affect anything.

If you attempt to analyze every post I make, most likely, you will come to the conclusion that you already had in mind before you started analyzing. It is quite possibly the most pointless thing that you can do in mafia.

[Surprise_Carcinogen]

Vollkan. Take a step back, for your own sake. I had to back in D1 when I was tunneling on Reg without realizing it. You can't take apart everything a person says without eventually coming up with whatever it was you wanted to find anyway

[subgenius]

Is there a reason I shouldn't ask the question?

The reason is that the answer only benefits scum. Even if he answers no, it still benefits scum. Whether or not you believe he's clever enough to refuse an answer is irrelevant. You asked a question that would have helped scum decide their NK's if he had answered.

This doesn't strike me as over analyzing a single post. It's just a straight out scummy thing to do.

[vollkan]

Is there a reason I shouldn't ask the question?
Sure, if he actually had to answer it would make me seem like scum, but if he isn't going to tell me, then it's fairly obvious that it's not going to actually affect anything.

I'm liking the 10 points I gave you for this crap.

For starters, it's simply evasive to say "Why SHOULDN'T I do this?" And the fact that he wouldn't likely answer it in no way justifies you asking it in the first place.

You're really just dancing around the key issue which is that there is absolutely NO pro-town reason for you to ask that question in the first place.

If you attempt to analyze every post I make, most likely, you will come to the conclusion that you already had in mind before you started analyzing. It is quite possibly the most pointless thing that you can do in mafia.

Bullshit.

I haven't been tunnelling on you. I've attacked a lot of your posts recently, but I defy you to point out a single instance where I have been unreasonable.

And the nonsense of this accusation of tunnelling only becomes clearer in light of the fact that you raise it in relation to me attacking you for something so outrightly scummy as your "Are you a vig?" question

Vollkan. Take a step back, for your own sake. I had to back in D1 when I was tunneling on Reg without realizing it. You can't take apart everything a person says without eventually coming up with whatever it was you wanted to find anyway

Are you defending his question?

If so, why?

If not, on what basis do you think I am tunnelling?

The reason is that the answer only benefits scum. Even if he answers no, it still benefits scum. Whether or not you believe he's clever enough to refuse an answer is irrelevant. You asked a question that would have helped scum decide their NK's if he had answered.

This doesn't strike me as over analyzing a single post. It's just a straight out scummy thing to do.

^ QFT

[Maxous]

@max, what unvoting incident

When tclawren temporarily unvoted Magnetic with the intention of having him lynched later.

What about this post really makes you think that he suspected bgg as much as he suspected pappum's?

My point is you based nearly your whole reasoning for voting Yura on tclawren's suspicion of her but you seem to dismiss his growing suspicion of bgg near the end.

Is there a reason I shouldn't ask the question?
Sure, if he actually had to answer it would make me seem like scum, but if he isn't going to tell me, then it's fairly obvious that it's not going to actually affect anything.

So he asked the question without expecting an answer and it is'nt scummy because he does'nt "have" to answer it?
It really looks like fishing for a reaction on night roles.
This coupled with his suspicion of 'everyone who voted Magnetic and ended the day early' but despite me asking, did'nt name anybody in particular as suspicious is making him look a likely mafia member at the moment

[bgg1996]

There was zero chance that the question would be answered.

I'm not going to continue this stupid, and completely worthless argument any further.
Unless, maybe, anybody does something either scummy, or extremely stupid.

[Surprise_Carcinogen]

I can't honestly defend his question. It was awful. I also don't have any basis for thinking your tunneling aside from the fact that you've taken apart/quoted every single post he has made since. I just don't see Bgg as being scummy.

[bgg1996]

Maxous, I didn't answer your question for two reasons.
1. I had already specified the people who I was suspecting. It wasn't a broad statement like "all the jumpy people" where a lot matters on opinion and context. It specified a group of people that can easily be identified.
2. The reason I am not naming said individuals, is because I wasn't saying "I suspect these people, the people who did this.", I was saying "Doing this is a scummy thing to do". Does that make sense to you?

[vollkan]

*stonewalling*

Fixed.

I can't honestly defend his question. It was awful. I also don't have any basis for thinking your tunneling aside from the fact that you've taken apart/quoted every single post he has made since. I just don't see Bgg as being scummy.

You've just stated that you think his question was indefensible. And yet you don't think he is scummy?

1. I had already specified the people who I was suspecting. It wasn't a broad statement like "all the jumpy people" where a lot matters on opinion and context. It specified a group of people that can easily be identified.

Identify them now.

Do I really need to explain why it is a bad idea to let people get away with laying a general charge against an unidentified group, rather than having to justify their attack on each specific member of that group?

2. The reason I am not naming said individuals, is because I wasn't saying "I suspect these people, the people who did this.", I was saying "Doing this is a scummy thing to do". Does that make sense to you?

You explicitly said that you were suspicious of the people that did this.

I am suspiscious of anybody who decided to lynch him anyway, after I told you not to, or at least not yet.

So, again, I ask you to identify them.

[vollkan]

EBWOP: The *stonewalling* was in reference to post 283

[Surprise_Carcinogen]

Yes. I did state his question is indefensible. And while yes, he is acting scummy, I definitely think he is town.

[subgenius]

There was zero chance that the question would be answered.

I'm not going to continue this stupid, and completely worthless argument any further.
Unless, maybe, anybody does something either scummy, or extremely stupid.

You really can't say there was zero chance, and I still don't understand why you bothered to write such a question at all.

BTW, knowing the specifics of how a weak doctor works will offer literally no insights into the set up. Even if it worked as magnetic suggested, I would hesitate to use that information to conclude that we have an SK rather than a vig.

Also, when are you going to start scum hunting instead of trying to get the mod to answer questions about the setup? You've said that you suspect everybody who voted for magnetic, and yet you've done literally nothing to generate leads on any of them, instead choosing to complain about the D1 lynch, speculate on set up, and possibly sniff out town power roles. I'm baffled as to why you only have one vote on you.

[subgenius]

2. The reason I am not naming said individuals, is because I wasn't saying "I suspect these people, the people who did this.", I was saying "Doing this is a scummy thing to do". Does that make sense to you?

I think you'd better narrow this down, seeing as you've implicated 70 percent of the town.

[Surprise_Carcinogen]

2. The reason I am not naming said individuals, is because I wasn't saying "I suspect these people, the people who did this.", I was saying "Doing this is a scummy thing to do". Does that make sense to you?

I think you'd better narrow this down, seeing as you've implicated 70 percent of the town.

To be fair, statistically he has also identified at least two scum in the pile.

[subgenius]

To be fair, statistically he has also identified at least two scum in the pile.

Lol, funny point, but if bgg is scum, there could be as few as one scum in that pile.

[Surprise_Carcinogen]

True, but as stated, I consider there to be a very slim chance that this is true. Present, but slim.

[Surprise_Carcinogen]

But, since that conversation has slowed down, a different direction is needed. As CKD has yet to reply, and I think I've made my case against Yura pretty clear, I'm tempted to look back to andrew and his stretching for a lynch, but am otherwise going to need to do a re-read to see what I might have missed.

[subgenius]

True, but as stated, I consider there to be a very slim chance that this is true. Present, but slim.

I'll agree that there are likely 2 or 3 scum that voted for magnetic, but it's silly to say that voting for Magnetic was scummy, because obviously there were plenty of townies that did it too.

[Surprise_Carcinogen]

Agreed. As the hammer-drop, you are preaching to the choir. The trouble is, the statement that prolonging the day might have been helpful is just as valid as the statement that it would have been harmful. It`s not a productive conversation.

[vollkan]

Score update:

Player	Score
Andrew94	50
Regfan	50
Surprise_Carcinogen	55
Maxous	50
Truant	55
curiouskarmadog	50
bgg1996	67
subgenius	50
yura-chi	74

Yes. I did state his question is indefensible. And while yes, he is acting scummy, I definitely think he is town.

This makes absolutely no sense to me. What has he done which is so pro-town?

Agreed. As the hammer-drop, you are preaching to the choir. The trouble is, the statement that prolonging the day might have been helpful is just as valid as the statement that it would have been harmful. It`s not a productive conversation.

You're missing the point here. Nobody is currently arguing that it was scummy to want the day to be prolonged, but bgg (at least) is arguing that it was scummy to want the day to end (though, as I pointed out in my previous post, he's changed his tune on this since he got called out on it)

[bgg1996]

The people that I would be referring to are not unidentified. You can find out who they are whenever you feel like it. The fact that you do not do so makes me think that you want me to say their names, so that you can make a big thing about how those people have nothing scummy about them, and make a case on me for it.

Furthermore, I did not "change my tune" or whatever you like to call it.
If I were to say "I suspect the people who made the 3rd and 6th posts." that would imply that I knew who they were and may think that they are scum for whatever reason.
If I were to say "I suspect whoever made the 3rd and 6th posts." then it would imply that my suspiscions relied not on the people, and whatever else that they might have done, or even what is on those posts, but on the fact that I believed the act of posting third and sixth is scummy.

Before anybody makes a big thing about it, I do not believe that the act of posting third and sixth is scummy.

[Surprise_Carcinogen]

He hasn't actually done anything pro town, so much as he has played almost exactly the way I used to when I was first starting to play mafia, false scum-tells and all, I haven't seen anything majorly wrong come from him, just a lot of small things, so I am disinclined to comdemn him just yet. I think he, at worst, reads null to me, but I am more inclined to read 'misguided town' in his actions. Things like 'are you vig' aren't something even the worst of scum would outright ask, after all.

As to the second point, what conclusions do you draw from him changing his mind?

Also, seriously people, I can go and take a look at the list of people who had voted for Magnetic when he was lynched. Why are you so hard-on to see Bgg specifically mention each one of them?