Open 857 | Frienemies | Postgame

[fireisredsir]

it would be pretty funny if i had it wrong after writing that out about how i knew the masons

[fireisredsir]

hut? thoughts?

You willing to elim Looker instead? For me it's either SS or Looker.

yea those are my two options. i think it's SS tho

[Enchant]

I'm questioning the point of claiming before e-1. Seems unnecessary.

Put Looker at E-1, if not claiming mason, off it away.


Looker at this point is liability, and i am not in mood explaining again and again obvious.

[Enchant]

On other hand, probably Looker is blatant mason and it's annoying me even more.

[catboi]

Vote Count 5.04

Looker (1):

Enchant

Something_Smart (1):

fireisredsir

Not Voting (3):

hutmeil, Looker, Something_Smart

With 5 alive, it's 3 to eliminate.

Deadline for Day 5 is August 14 at 3:00 PM EST.

Deadline Timer:

(expired on 2022-08-14 15:00:00)

[hutmeil]

I am the last Mason. Anyone want to counterclaim? Since I'm the only one remaining, I don't think there's any use to hiding anymore since I'm basically a VT at this point. Since there's a possibility (though low) I might die next night, I might as well claim now since claiming at Elo might not be a good idea for me.

Everything I've said is what the Mason's sentiments are. We TR Fire/Enchant. We want to elim Looker/SS.

About Fire, it's true that he's been on point since D2. He got all 3 of us in his list. We considered going after him but he's too townie to do so. His reasonings are logical and makes sense from a VT/Mason standpoint.

About Enchant, Gamma hates you lol (quick hammer?). But after that, your play has been townie ever since.

About S_S, I remember Dats saying scum likes to bus. I think S_S bussed on the Dats wagon.

VOTE: SS

[hutmeil]

I guess it's E-1

[Something_Smart]

This was a highly sarcastic post that I deleted and decided to rewrite non-sarcastically, because that's not really constructive right now.

It doesn't make any sense for a me/Dats team to bus like that. I begrudgingly admitted I wanted to kill Datisi only after he was E-1, and even then, I left a pretty big out that I had to wait for fire and implosion to shut down. That's not me looking to get towncred off a flip I know is red.

Furthermore, a me/Dats team wouldn't want Dats to die that day-- we would much rather it be me. The only reason I was shielded so long is because I technically could have been a mason, and we'd know that would run out. Once that did, I would have little chance of winning this very endgame that we find ourselves in. If we wanted to bus, I could have helped Datisi put together a much more convincing case on me-- including pointing out reasons why I was unlikely to actually be a mason and thus I didn't deserve to be shielded. I know Datisi pretty well, we're both pretty tactical thinkers, I think we could have set that up in a way that would be pretty convincing.

Not to mention, he's just a much stronger scum player than me, especially lategame. My scumgame pretty reliably falls apart around D3-4. His scumgame remains solid and he has a lot of strong wins to back it up (most notably the championship game on EM); he only died here due to PoE, because scum allowed the possible-mason shielding to happen.

The main thing that frustrates me here is that to believe I'm scum you have to assume that either (a) we didn't see D5 going this way, or (b) we couldn't have done anything differently to prevent D5 from going this way. All of my scum history points to (a) being false, and (b) is just really hard to swallow with how Datisi and I played D4. (And again, I was not completely MIA during that week. I just didn't want to interact with the game without close-reading to determine the masons. But if the game depended on me making anti-partnery interactions with Datisi before one of us died, or on me actively drawing suspicion so Datisi could bus me, I was more than capable of doing that.)

And one other note that I don't expect to help but I don't see why I shouldn't say it-- I am often read very unfavorably by people who don't know me, because they don't understand/like my playstyle. Whereas, people who know me better can sometimes falsely townread me for things that I can replicate as scum. Obviously scum had other agendas with NK's, but scum have consistently killed off people who know me and left me alive with only people who don't. That is not something I do deliberately. I would always kill hutmeil over implosion last night (and yes, I knew it was you two, no other team makes sense knowing that I am not a mason).

[Enchant]

So why you not voting someone

[Something_Smart]

Because I don't want the day to end?

[Enchant]

VOTE: SS

Nah.

[fireisredsir]

It doesn't make any sense for a me/Dats team to bus like that. I begrudgingly admitted I wanted to kill Datisi only after he was E-1, and even then, I left a pretty big out that I had to wait for fire and implosion to shut down. That's not me looking to get towncred off a flip I know is red.

Furthermore, a me/Dats team wouldn't want Dats to die that day-- we would much rather it be me. The only reason I was shielded so long is because I technically could have been a mason, and we'd know that would run out. Once that did, I would have little chance of winning this very endgame that we find ourselves in. If we wanted to bus, I could have helped Datisi put together a much more convincing case on me-- including pointing out reasons why I was unlikely to actually be a mason and thus I didn't deserve to be shielded. I know Datisi pretty well, we're both pretty tactical thinkers, I think we could have set that up in a way that would be pretty convincing.

Not to mention, he's just a much stronger scum player than me, especially lategame. My scumgame pretty reliably falls apart around D3-4. His scumgame remains solid and he has a lot of strong wins to back it up (most notably the championship game on EM); he only died here due to PoE, because scum allowed the possible-mason shielding to happen.

all of this is written as if you had any control over datisi dying. which... you didn't, at all. it was not a conscious choice by the scum team to sacrifice datisi. implo had reasons to suspect him, so did i, hut agreed with implo. that's 3 town leading the push onto datisi. it didn't really matter who hammered bc once that's what me and implo wanted i don't think the day was ending anywhere else

i do think that if you're scum together then you wanted to either win in 5p or have you die before datisi. i just don't think you really ever had that option

i think that at the start of d4 you thought that enchant was the elim. datisi still seemed to think that i wanted to elim there. and i did, until enchant started being the towniest ive ever seen enchant be. and d4 just progressed in a way where you weren't there, and town gradually headed more and more towards an elim on datisi that he probably thought he could argue his way out of, and by the time it seemed most likely, he didn't really have anywhere else to go. if he had pivoted into trying to bus you, it probably wouldn't have worked and also probably would have only ended up hurting your chances. i really just don't see much of anything that either if you could have done there. and tbh it's probably a bit tiring for him to have to try to solo carry a game

and ok, let's say it's not you. how do his actions make sense as scum with looker? its literally all of the same issues. so the only place where it does make sense that he would be willing to die there is if scum is in me/enchant and just trust that masons keep us locktowned. but enchant killing implo doesn't really make sense bc implo said that he was like 100% on locktowning enchant. i also just kinda believe enchant when they say that they thought std/looker slot is obvious mason lol

[Something_Smart]

If you wanted to talk to me, you shouldn't have let me get hammered.

[Something_Smart]

I don't think his actions make sense with Looker either, which has me worried!

[Something_Smart]

But I guess it's not my problem anymore.

[fireisredsir]

And one other note that I don't expect to help but I don't see why I shouldn't say it-- I am often read very unfavorably by people who don't know me, because they don't understand/like my playstyle. Whereas, people who know me better can sometimes falsely townread me for things that I can replicate as scum. Obviously scum had other agendas with NK's, but scum have consistently killed off people who know me and left me alive with only people who don't. That is not something I do deliberately. I would always kill hutmeil over implosion last night (and yes, I knew it was you two, no other team makes sense knowing that I am not a mason).

i don't think my read on you has much to do with not understanding or not liking your playstyle?

i also just straight up do not believe that you would kill hut over implo lol. implo was clear town leader and without him we're kinda struggling to be cohesive. him knowing you wasn't going to stop him from voting you here, and if anything it gives his vote more weight

[Enchant]

Honestly waited before SS says something "Well you was wrong" or something, so i kinda persuaded he is mafia and we kinda won.

[fireisredsir]

oh i didn't notice hut had voted tbh

[Looker]

I still don't get the point of claiming? Gg and all, but what's the difference between claiming now and claiming tomorrow after scum have had to guess an additional time?

[fireisredsir]

scum already know who the masons are here like 99 times out of 100

and its good to claim before elo if you don't have a strong crumbling system bc that means that any counterclaim can be resolved

[catboi]

Vote Count 5.05

Something_Smart (3):

fireisredsir, hutmeil, Enchant

Not Voting (2):

Looker, Something_Smart

With 5 alive, it took 3 to eliminate.

[catboi]

Something_Smart was eliminated on Day 5.

He was a...

Spoiler:

vanilla_townie[/spoiler]

[catboi]

It is now

Night 5

.

The deadline for Night 5 is

August 11

at

10:30 PM EST

. Submit night actions by PM, if applicable.

Deadline Timer:

(expired on 2022-08-11 22:30:00)

[catboi]

~

[catboi]

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