New York 131: Tricycle Mafia (Day 5)

[Knight of Cydonia]

The three posts above me (not wraiths) slightly disturb me.. I won't comment further on it just yet but yeah.

No, please comment on it. I know precisely what that comment is going to be, something along the lines of "look, 3 people with identical views on my posting, they must all be scum!" but go ahead anyway. Oh, and there'll probably be something in there on the fact that SZS suddenly agrees with me which to be honest shocks me too but hey he had to come around eventually.

[DeityKabuto]

Silver, at this point, I am really confused. You seem kind of innocent, in a way, and a part of me is saying we shouldn't go through with this, but your actions and what you've done says a thing or few.

[silverbullet999]

-KoC

No, please comment on it.

No, not yet

Oh, and there'll probably be something in there on the fact that SZS suddenly agrees with me which to be honest shocks me too but hey he had to come around eventually.

When have you two been in heavy disagreement?

-Diety

You seem kind of innocent, in a way, and a part of me is saying we shouldn't go through with this, but your actions and what you've done says a thing or few.

I'm a bit confused now to. Let's take this slowly

ok here

I would unvote you,

You said this to mastin, but this doesn't make sense... because your vote isn't on him. Did you actually mean I would vote you?

but first I want to see silverbullet999 defend himself against the bandwagon.

You want me to defend myself against my bandwagon, however I'm not sure you even know what the case on me is. Thus I am asking you if you can please cite or summarize the overall case on me in your next post.

[mastin2]

Ah, lots of content. Love when that happens. Sorry, guys. Since a lot of it is directed at me, I'll have to wall a little.

Deity: My normal way of scumhunting is wall-posting. That's more anti-town than my current method, because it kills the game. Gives better info, sure, but it's not doing any good if nobody reads it. So, I am developing this method. (Consider me kinda like a newbie--I haven't settled down into a posting style, so to speak, since my return.) Simply put, my way is a different form of scumhunting, neither superior nor inferior to the normal way.

Spoiler: How many times must I ramble?

"this is right regardless of silver's alignment" thing.

And why wouldn't it be right? On a L-1 wagon, would you honestly expect only ONE scum? On an L-1 wagon, would you expect THREE scum on it when there's only four?

No and no.

Silver's alignment is irrelevant.

This was the case in TWBB, too--Pine was scum, and got wagoned to 7. I accurately predicted the number of scum present, and it didn't MATTER if Pine was town or scum.

Simply put, under current site meta, the alignment of the wagons doesn't matter. It still contains the exact same amount of scum. (At least, in a game this small. In a larger game, sure, maybe it's different between town and scum. But the smaller the game, the less likely there's any dang difference.)

This effect is easily provable. Just look at smaller games. Newbies, Minis, smaller Larges. Look at who is wagoned. Is there less scum on them because they're scum?

No. The main difference between townwagons and scumwagons isn't that there's more scum on a townwagon than a scumwagon. It's that the scumwagon has a tendency of falling apart faster than the townwagon.

I know that my mind works on slightly different wavelengths than most people, but to me, this is just effing common sense speaking. Others might not think about it, but I dare you to make a serious argument against me, a serious argument that I'm wrong.

It's just not possible, because I'm right:

Silver's alignment has no relevance on the number of scum present.

As for Silver's claim--put bluntly, I wouldn't have believed anything OTHER than Vanilla. If he was desperate scum and claimed a PR, I'd lynch him then and there, end the day early. Since he claimed VT, it's possible (albeit unlikely) he's town. I still think he's scum; he's just not as scummy as SubSith is.

SubSith: The only way my vote is moving is if I find someone scummier than my current vote.

Have to depart; will return shortly and resume from page 14.

[mastin2]

To elaborate:
I never intended to move my vote from SubSith to Silver unless Silver claimed to be a Power Role. It was always meant to be on--and remain on--SubSith, who I feel has a greater chance of being scum than Silver. (Even though I think they both are scum, still.)

[MrZepher]

Just a quick note, has anyone taken a look at who's currently voting mastin?
No? Then you should take a look. It's interesting.

[SubzeroSith]

The three posts above me (not wraiths) slightly disturb me.. I won't comment further on it just yet but yeah.

The post above this line slightly disturbs me. I won't comment further on it just yet (mostly because its awfulness should be self-evident) but yeah.

Silver, at this point, I am really confused. You seem kind of innocent, in a way, and a part of me is saying we shouldn't go through with this, but your actions and what you've done says a thing or few.

What actions in particular are you referring to, and what do they say to you?

Oh, and there'll probably be something in there on the fact that SZS suddenly agrees with me which to be honest shocks me too but hey he had to come around eventually.

Credit where credit is due. Why does it shock you so much? We've been hunting on Toon and Silver (and probably even Mastin too) harder than we have on you.

Just a quick note, has anyone taken a look at who's currently voting mastin?
No? Then you should take a look. It's interesting.

Please elaborate. Also, how come you don't have a vote out right now?

@Mastin--so, let me get this straight--you wanted a claim from Silver without him actually being at L-1? Because you demanded a claim from him when he was at L-2 (or appeared to think he was at L-2, since you referred to your vote as an "honorary" L-1)? How is that good for the town?

[SubzeroSith]

Clarification @ Zepher--I can imagine what you'll likely say about the Mastin wagon, I just want to hear it in your words without leading you.

[silverbullet999]

-Sub

The post above this line slightly disturbs me. I won't comment further on it just yet (mostly because its awfulness should be self-evident) but yeah.

[MrZepher]

I just think it's interesting how 2 suspected likely scum are currently on the Mastin wagon but

everyone else is still arguing over 50/50 scum/town

The bolded part is why I don't have a vote out.
I can't tell if either is scum. I'm suspect of one of you, but I don't have enough reasoning to constitute a vote, at least not imo.
I can see what Uite was saying about Silver's ramblings. I can generally make sense of it, once I get past the blabbering troll, but still.

I think there are more scum pushing for a Silver/Sub lynch then other, sense-making lynches.

[Maxous]

@Mastin2: Can you give us some non-VCA reasons why Silverbullet and Subzero are mafia?
Oh and explain this as well please.

Zepher - In this post I kinda feel he left himself a bit too much wriggling room on Silverbullet. Even though he did express suspicion of Subzero. Hmm :/

This is completely false. Are you really telling me that my questions to you and max are me just dancing in the air having a good ol time?

Are you attempting to say you were scumhunting me?

What kind of shitty town are you to not want to pursue someone you think is scum unless your scum and... oh... now it makes sense.

Which is exactly what he did early game when he found a slight suspicion on Subzero and done nothing to pursue the suspicion or others.
He acted like mafia according to his own scumtell.


Posts like these always make me feel a bit uneasy. Mafia can uncommitally state this and wait to see what direction the town will go and then vote.
This vote then happened afterwards. I think Silver was on 5 at the time.

Uite - Why are you getting bad vibes from Toon and Thor?

Yikes, feel uneasy about this vote
Surye - Why will Subzero be top of your list on Day 2?

Pine - Why did the arguement not strike you as town vs town?

Silverbullet - How does scum nhammen post?

Wraith - Can you explain/state some of your stronger town reads to us please then? Process of elimination can also work in games.

since if I read the deadline right, we only have 4 days left, and Uite's trying to start a completely different wagon?

Nothing wrong with starting a new one in that timefrime. Gathering 8-9 votes would'nt take that long, particualry as deadline closes in.

[Maxous]

I just think it's interesting how 2 suspected likely scum are currently on the Mastin wagon but

everyone else is still arguing over 50/50 scum/town

I think there are more scum pushing for a Silver/Sub lynch then other, sense-making lynches.

1) Why is Nobody Special likely scum?
2) You think at least one of Silver and Subzero is mafia? Why are'nt you voting or giving any thoughts at all on them then?
3) What "other sense-making lynches?" You stated your suspects it was Subzero and Amor. The latter being mostly gut?

[mastin2]

@Mastin2: Can you give us some non-VCA reasons why Silverbullet and Subzero are mafia?

Working on it. Mainly, it's VCA, and a feeling which isn't quite "gut", but has no other word to better describe it. This is deeper than gut, more meaningful. That whole "different level" thing coming into play--it's subtle, perhaps even subconscious.

I'm trying to explain the read in more traditional terms, but have slacked off due to being sick.

[DeityKabuto]

270

[DeityKabuto]

Ignore the post above.

Subzero- Read post 279, that is my reason for voting silver. The reason I say silver has some innocence within him, say 40-60% is because other people have way different reasons. Usually, people's reasons for voting someone scummy are kind of the same (meaning they did something really really scummy) or their are multiple reasons (meaning they did many scummy things). Yet, the reasoning on silver, are mumbo-jumbo, all different and jumpy jumpy, get what I'm saying?

[Amor]

Silver, at this point, I am really confused. You seem kind of innocent, in a way, and a part of me is saying we shouldn't go through with this, but your actions and what you've done says a thing or few.

Subzero- Read post 279, that is my reason for voting silver. The reason I say silver has some innocence within him, say 40-60% is because other people have way different reasons. Usually, people's reasons for voting someone scummy are kind of the same (meaning they did something really really scummy) or their are multiple reasons (meaning they did many scummy things). Yet, the reasoning on silver, are mumbo-jumbo, all different and jumpy jumpy, get what I'm saying?

More hedging. Seems like you want to avoid responsibility if Silver flips town. I think I'm okay with a DK vote now.

Unvote
Vote DeityKabuto

I don't like Mastin setting up lynches for tomorrow, but his arguments for it seem fairly logical. And I agree with Maxous that we definitely still have time for a non-Silver lynch, especially given how scum-filled that wagon looks. (And oh, who's in the exact position I would expect scum to be in on that wagon? My old friend KoC.)

[DeityKabuto]

Silver, at this point, I am really confused. You seem kind of innocent, in a way, and a part of me is saying we shouldn't go through with this, but your actions and what you've done says a thing or few.

Subzero- Read post 279, that is my reason for voting silver. The reason I say silver has some innocence within him, say 40-60% is because other people have way different reasons. Usually, people's reasons for voting someone scummy are kind of the same (meaning they did something really really scummy) or their are multiple reasons (meaning they did many scummy things). Yet, the reasoning on silver, are mumbo-jumbo, all different and jumpy jumpy, get what I'm saying?

More hedging. Seems like you want to avoid responsibility if Silver flips town. I think I'm okay with a DK vote now.

Unvote
Vote DeityKabuto

I don't like Mastin setting up lynches for tomorrow, but his arguments for it seem fairly logical. And I agree with Maxous that we definitely still have time for a non-Silver lynch, especially given how scum-filled that wagon looks. (And oh, who's in the exact position I would expect scum to be in on that wagon? My old friend KoC.)

I really don't see how that is scummy at all. You are clearly in the wrong mindset in saying that every few false "hint" is scumminess.

[Pine]

Semi-V/LA until tomorrow night. I'll get to Maxous's question then.

Noticed something from Vote Count. Mastin and Silver cannot be scumbuddies. Mastin's meta and obsession with VCA would not allow him to be on the secondary wagon with a buddy. If/when SIlver flips scum, Mastin is confirmed Town in my eyes.

[MrZepher]

1) Why is Nobody Special likely scum?
2) You think at least one of Silver and Subzero is mafia? Why are'nt you voting or giving any thoughts at all on them then?
3) What "other sense-making lynches?" You stated your suspects it was Subzero and Amor. The latter being mostly gut?

1. This is based off the assumption that him giving basically

shit

bad bad bad reasons to hop onto a wagon/vote Mastin make him scummier than people I can't get a good read on.
2. I have voiced concerns. I'm not sure what to make with the answers. Trust me, I'm working on it; this isn't exactly a position I like being in *grumble grumble*
3. This is true BUT there have been other wagons in the day, and other suspects. I was mostly referring to any wagon that isn't silver/sub.

Also with the Silver wiggling room thing, that was my roundabout way of saying I'm not really sure on my read.
I want to think Silver is town, yes, but there are doubts. Hence why there's room for that to change. Make sense?

Anyways, I'm going to continue my re-read now...

[silverbullet999]

-Max
Are the quoted posts of me directed to me? I'll answer if you'd like but I wasn't sure.

How does scum nhammen post?

Well normally he's really lurky and barely posts in the first few days. The posts he does make are normally short as well.

I'm not saying Nhammen is town he needs to live forever and ever. But he reads as town for me for now.

[mastin2]

For the record, I have started my reread. But it'll take a long time for me to finish it. I'm trying to do something which I haven't done in a long time. (Nail the scumteam on day one. I've done it multiple times before, but always in a newbie game. It's harder to do with double [four] the amount of scum, but theoretically possible. A lot of the assumptions I make might prove to be inaccurate in the long-run, but I think the risk of miscalculating is worth the potential reward.)

[Toon Fighter]

UNVOTE: VOTE: Subsith

Don't have much time now. I like the case on subzero, and I had suspected him before. Also, I believe my vote is more useful there than where it is now. When I have more time (probably tomorrow, but can't promise anything) I'll make a bigger post.

[Surye]

Surye - Why will Subzero be top of your list on Day 2?

The exchanged between Sub and Silver have me thinking a strong connection between the two. Depending on Silver's flip and N1 activity, he will be my person of interest.

[Maxous]

Mastin2 - If you simply manage to catch just one mafia today.. I will be delighted.

Silverbullet - Sorry for being unclear.
"Are you attempting to say you were scumhunting me?"
That one please.

Toon Fighter - Make sure you include why you agree with the case on Subzero please.

Surye - Is the implication here that you beleive Subzero and Silverbullet to be bussing?
When you say "depending on Silver's flip" can you be more specific? i.e. going through the two hypothetical scenarios of Silver flipping town and mafia.

Amor - Who are the scum filling Silver's wagon? DK and KOC?
By the way going regardless of Silverbullet's alignment, yes it is likely there will is mafia on the bandwagon.

If Silverbullet flips mafia I will look into what Pine said about Mastin.

Zepher - Hmm, what doubts do you have about Silverbullet?

And uh... that's a wrap =)

[Maxous]

By the way regardless of Silverbullet's alignment, yes it is likely there is mafia on his bandwagon.

I have no idea how the previous mess got through the preview