Open 484 - DDU - Game over

[thenewearth]

why the vote on chen?

1) I forgot that this is unli vote... My bad
2) It "seemed" like. Not quite sure but it seemed like
3) I said I was going to go back on my initial reads first

[Chenoan]

Pasche, if you were actually uncomfortable with the votes being out then you would unvote.

But oh wait, you're not actually uncomfortable. You're just putting on a show and playing off of what I just said in 315 so that you look more townie and people associate you with pro-town actions even though you're just beating around the bush.

If you still think my argument against you is just about that awful quicklynch, look again. IF that were it, then i'd be going after Don still too.

GIANT HAND OF SUSPICION: Pasch

[Chenoan]

1) I forgot that this is unli vote... My bad

... really? You made both votes at the same time. That's convenient that you simultaneously used the multiple votes and forgot they existed.

[thenewearth]

I mean... I forgot that I could still vote don after reading

[thenewearth]

And I just realized that I still have not vote on him...

VOTE: don

[Elyse]

Alright, so I'm just going to reread and post my thoughts as if I'm replacing in.

Voting, voting everywhere but not a drop of reads.

Would vote mallow, but putting someone so close to lynch this early seems like a bad plan.

VOTE: VoidedMafia to level things out.

This looks like scum afraid to step on toes.

My 27, sorry. It was around there.

And I meant he already had a read on me that looked at least semi-serious. So why not vote me for it?

If I did do that now, you guys would jump on me as if I was scum anyways for following that direction.

I didn't feel like voting for him yet, I don't like to rush things.

Get off my back.

Telling people to get off your back is...strange to say the least. Not sure if town or scum. Also, I meant to ask this before, but why do you post in red?

It looks like Mallow is looking for a reason to justify his vote, rather than voting based off of evidence. Looks pretty suspect to me.

In other words, Mallow is scummy but I won't do anything about it.

Do you mean if you voted Voided at the time you put FOS on him, we would jump on you?

Or that if you voted Voided

at this moment

, we would jump on you?

If I did at this moment

Okay.

When you said that if you'd vote Voided we'd jump you, it kinda sounded like you want to vote him, but you didn't because we would think you were scummy.

Town shouldn't care about looking scummy. Scum should worry about looking scummy.

VOTE: mallowgeno

No one hammer or you'll be shunned. Or something.

Leviathan should post.

This is a good post for Mallow scum.

I am noticing don is siding with Mallow early on.

Dad and Mom don't understand the case against Mallow... We don't see what ever it is the others are seeing.

Mom's going to take a look through later, and I took one just now and at worst, Mallow is a null read for me.

Could someone please on him elaborate why we should lynch him as opposed to say Chenoan, for example?

(Dad uses Chenoan because he knows Mom was concerned about Chenoan. Dad personally is weighing the options.)

The NK doesn't think Mallow is scum, but thinks Chenoan is.

AA's suspicion of Chenoan continues.

wait... I just looked at your wiki, and it states that you have way more then 5 games on site... in fact, you only have 4 scum games, so did you just scumslip?

Upon rereading, this is most likely not a scumslip. However, Pasch's "string Mallow the hell up" comment seemed like scum cheerleading a mislynch.

Pasch did tunnel mallow and don early on, and then hammered Voided because of one of his scumread's posts. I know this has been discussed to death, but it's still extremely scummy.

Also, when reading where TNE and I replaced in, no one asked who was replacing for which slot, and it didn't specify. It could be because our replacees didn't post, or it could be that TNE's scumbuddy didn't needed to ask, because he posted in the QT.

Well, it doesn't surprise me at all to see Mallow on the town wagon. Definitely putting my vote back on him.

Vote: Mallow

The question is, are there any other scum on it?

I admit that hammering Voided was a bit impulsive, but I do think that he would have been a serious liability down the road, due to his dodginess and evasive behavior. Also, I think that a quick wagon, before anyone had the chance to overthink it and back out, is useful to us, since we have the immediate ability to evaluate it.

Bo's reason for voting Voided seems like the weakest. It was a reaction to a trivial comment, and framed to be a real vote. In fact, that whole post 55 looks suspect. He votes for Mallow, whom we generally all agree is probably scum, but demands that no one hammer... without saying what we should hesitate for. The nature of this game is to vote a lot and we certainly aren't going to wait for claims, since there are no power roles. Plus he gives advice to Mallow on how to play. Some of his previous posts toward Mallow look like he was trying to hold off voting for him, but then voted when it looked like he couldn't pretend any longer. He spends most of the previous several posts defending Mallow.

I think we should lynch Mallow now, and then Bo tomorrow when Mallow flips scum.

I am not feeling this post at all. He first votes mallow for being on the town wagon. So was Pasch. Then he bullshits a fake reason for hammering Voided when he could've just said, "don's post was spot-on and I genuinely thought he was scum" or something like that rather than "oh, he could've been a liability."
And the worst part is when he suspects Bo for having the weakest reasoning for voting Voided.

You voted for him because of one of your scumread's cases.

In my defense, Bo, I voted for Voided because he wasn't doing anything. He was holding back his reads and keeping silent when it was clear he had more to say. That he spewed it all out after he was dead showed that he was town, but if he hadn't been acting so evasive and suspicious, I wouldn't have killed him. He looked to me like he was intentionally trying to avoid any association with his votes while trying to push lynches. Combined, that actually made him look scummy as hell. It's one of the few scum tactics that I've seen consistently work.

Why would Elyse be biased here? That's a strange and unfounded accusation to make.

And I must ask, in a game setup where we are encouraged to vote not only for who we most want to kill, but generally who we think ought to die, why did you vote for Voided if you didn't want him dead? Are you backtracking now? I think this is one of the merits of having a surprising lynch like this. You get to see who tries to distance themselves from it and get unreasonably defensive over it. Bo isn't owning up to his vote because he knows it makes him suspicious. And, looking over the post where Bo voted for Voided... it's completely out the blue and his whole reason is "you disagreed with Don in a method that I don't consider ideal". Seriously? That's a really weak vote, and you're suddenly faced with the consequences for it that you weren't expecting.

I think the reactions to the quick lynch are extremely telling, and Bo is trying to run away from it as fast as he can.

Vote: Bo

No, that's not an OMGUS. Voting me is an obvious easy move to make now. That no one had a scumread on me before hammering, and even Voided said that otherwise I was pretty town-y, shows how foolish a choice it is. I may have sacrificed Voided (by accident, as I genuinely believed him to be a serious candidate for scum), but I think that the move will help fish out scum.

Here Pasch says he hammered Voided for not doing anything. Are you serious? TNE and I hadn't done anything either. That is terrible, terrible reasoning. And then at the end you defend yourself before someone even attacks you.

AA also commented on this.

but a really, really bad one here. arguments like this make mom cringe as she happens to believe that they come more from scum then town

I was merely anticipating the likely responses and saving us the time of having people accuse me of OMGUS'ing. I read over what I had written and I would respond to that vote with an accusation of OMGUS. Wouldn't you? So, rather than go through waiting for someone to accuse me, then waiting for me to log on and see it, and then responding, I gave the inevitable response early, while my thoughts were still current, rather than attempting to relate later what I had been thinking at the time. And often, when a vote is OMGUS, people label it as such. In a situation where the opposite is true, but it may be misinterpreted, I see no reason why accurately sharing my thoughts is detrimental to town.

So in other words, saying something isn't OMGUS prevents people of accusing you of OMGUS? Yeah right.

i will be v/la this weekend. important things going on.

in the meantime, i think my suspicions are falling towards chen, amethyst, bo, in no particular order as of yet. there's something rubbing me wrong about all three atm. i agree with the points made against bo and chen by others, and the hydra just sounds... forced. i don't think pasch is scum at this time. nothing wrong with that hammer. bo's reaction seemed odd to me too, though i don't think i said anything at the time. i will probably be mia during this next few days, so expect a large catch-up on monday. in the meantime:

unvote: everyone

for some reason the last attempt didn't go through.

The votecount was reset when Voidedmafia received the hammer vote. Also, noted. -Fei

How was there nothing wrong with Pasch's hammer? Also, you continue to not suspect Mallow.

I don't like Cheo's FoS on Pasch as opposed to a vote, especially when he is aware that you can have more than one vote and mentioned that later. The rest of 167 and 168 continues bashing Pasch, but still no vote.

Bo noted this in 170.

Chenoan: Why no vote on Pasch? You've clearly stated your heavy suspicion of him, that he's your biggest scum read.

I mentioned at the end of my post that I wanted to make sure my read wasn't just being based on the excess attention that he's been getting.

Fun fact, sometimes when you look at the word "Bro" and it's capitalized for no apparent reason, it totally looks like it says "Bo", and reads like it's specifically talking about Bo being my partner. That's today's fun fact.

Fun fact, you still didn't address the accusation. Good job side stepping, though.

VOTE: Paschendale

Alright, I guess that explains it. Still don't like it though.

Chenoan is reading nervous town to me.

Pasch's hammer was scummy but that's really it.

Bo is still the scummiest.

Basically ignore this. To be honest, I was just prodded, it was late, and I only read that page.

As a side note, I'm so glad AA is gone just because the whole mom/dad thing was so obnoxious.

Pasch's "the spotlight is on me and only me" is just a bad cry for help, and since he wasn't even lynched, it wasn't even true.

Just saying this real quick (I might have time to look later), but if you guys are gonna lynch someone, we're running out of time, and if it has to be me, then let it be me, but please lynch SOMEONE

This reads as town to me. I don't think Mallow is experienced enough to say this as scum.

Just saying this real quick (I might have time to look later), but if you guys are gonna lynch someone, we're running out of time, and if it has to be me, then let it be me, but please lynch SOMEONE

Martyr approach to and reverse psychology us out of lynching him? No town should let themselves be lynched, much less volunteer for it.

Really? It looks like he would rather the town get more information to me. Do you seriously think mallow said that as scum?

I dislike don asking everyone if AA is town. It seems like he is testing the waters to see if it's ok to vote them. It is also creating another wagon near the end of the day.

Don's vote on AA seems kind of useless. We're very close to the deadline, yet he doesn't really weigh in on the prominent wagons. He criticizes Bo, but doesn't vote for him. Plus, AA is probably town. Frustrating in that special way that only hydras can be, but probably town.

Vote for Bo. Let's not run out of time.

This. Except you wanted to lynch Mallow at the beginning of the day...

Okay. Caught up here.
Two things stood out.
1) Really disliking Bo's play right now. Trying to finagle the vote onto mallow seems really weird to me. At this point I'm still more in favor of a Pasche lynch. But. That feeling of being manipulated has only gotten stronger and stronger. So at this point.
VOTE: Does Bo Know
That should be L-1.

2) I'm really confused. AA, would you mind directly laying out your reads? This back and forth has gotten me all turned around. Who do you actually suspect, and who do you not?

Don't like this at all. How has Bo manipulated you without even talking (or posting) to you?

Oh look guys

It's Chenoan

Voting the person with the most suspicion

Oh wait

Pasch is more suspicious, but he wants

me

dead.

Oh joy.

This.

after iso i take back what i said about bo looking authentic. the large part of his early game is strewn with confidence. i'm not sure if throwing his hands up in the air at this point is genuine, or just an act to shed votes.

guys: i need some help here. i am running out of time. will do what more i can.

did anyone have questions for me that i missed?

vote: bo does know

meh. bo's either scum or he needs to take a communications course.

What changed here? Not liking these two posts at all. And why is town supposed to be better at communicating than scum?

after iso i take back what i said about bo looking authentic. the large part of his early game is strewn with confidence. i'm not sure if throwing his hands up in the air at this point is genuine, or just an act to shed votes.

guys: i need some help here. i am running out of time. will do what more i can.

did anyone have questions for me that i missed?

Believe it or not, I've never been in a situation (from my memory) where we were this close to deadline and I was the quickest choice to lynch.

I've never really done the "I don't care about anything, I'm gonna put up my reads anyway" bit, but it felt nice. I want to make sure my reads got out there before my lynch.

Because I'm really digging Mallow/Chenoan now. Chenoan hasn't jumped on Mallow wagon. Mallow, from what I remember, barely interacts with Chenoan (just checked, never even quotes Chenoan, never even types Chenoan, Chen, or Cheo, with his special red font). Both of them will be on both town wagons. Paschendale and Don have too, but Paschendale is hard on getting Mallow, which I want, and Don is definitely willing to find reads elsewhere compared to Chenoan and Mallow.

UNVOTE: Paschendale
If I hadn't already. I'd rather make sure he stays alive tomorrow. He still has Mallow as a big scum read and you guys could use his votes.

This post makes a mallow/Cheo team more likely.

vote: bo does know

meh. bo's either scum or he needs to take a communications course.

... really? Another quick lynch? This wasn't a good plan last time

which is why I blatantly said that my vote was L-1

.



Taking a hard look at Don tomorrow.

Not a quick lynch. Definitely had like a day left to do something. Nothing quick about that. You're just looking for shit reasons to suspect more people.

And you've officially found your target in LyLo if you happen to get Pasch mislynched. Bravo, Chenoan.

This. Reallly not liking Cheo at the end of the day here.

I don't like how Don told Bo to stop looking at Cheo because he "might be town." Well duh. Everyone "might be town." It seems like you don't want Bo to put down a good case on Cheo at Twilight.

271: chen continues with the "manipulating the vote" angle, but in a sense, that is exactly what chen did to get bo lynched. had i not hammered and we coasted to deadline, bo would have been lynched over chen's top read: mallow.

Not much to actually respond to in this post, but I do wanna point out that my top reads are Pasch with Bo following close behind - not mallow. Not sure where you got that.

For those wondering, my current reads are...

Probably scum: Pasch
Maybe scum: Bo, Don
Possibly scum: Mallow
Not sure: TNE, Elyse
Probably town: AA

Hm. The only person you think is town died. Even if you are town, posting your reads just before the day ends is idiotic. It's a roadmap for who scum should kill.

Seriously... Chen is scummiest to me so far.

Sheeping the best wagon to get it lynched.

He surpasses mallow in this race

TNE is still reading mainly null to me. Slightly scum leaning, but barely when compared to other players.

Because?

Because you haven't done much in the game at all, but you've targetted me. Since I know what my role is anyone targetting me gains at least a little suspicion.

This is really, really bad logic.

Scum: Pasch, Bo
Null-scum: Mallow, Chen and Elyse
Null: Don
Null-town:TNE

I'm thinking that the kill on AA was intended to do more than just eliminate the most towny player. I'm betting Don is getting framed, since he dumb-hammered and would be suspicious already and the he's the only player who voted AA

That said. Still hella suspicious of Pasch. Also. I am now getting more suspicious of TNE. At this point I could easily see a Pasch/TNE scum team.

VOTE: Pasch
For now just one vote. Everyone should be careful to keep track of their votes right now. If we're not successful in killing scum this time then we'll be at LyLo.

Here Cheo says Don is probably be getting framed. And Don said Cheo might be town...

Because even in 19 posts you've still barely contributed to the game other than to sheep the proposed Me/Mallow team which I know can't be the scumteam. Also, after further review, I had previously disregarded your predecessor since they'd never posted, but I went through and scanned for how other people referenced them. From my perspective Pasch did it a lot, and in an odd way. Almost as if trying to prod towards the fact that he was particularly bothered by that individual's lack of activity. This is all obviously tainted by the fact that I suspect Pasch, which is a key reason why I'm not voting you yet. Additionally your initial vote on Pasch throws off my read some, but I think it could have easily been an attempt at bussing in order to distance.

I don't know, though. Which is why it's just suspicion at the moment.

However. To make it more clear cut and formal.

FoS: TNE

Contribute to actual scumhunting rather than fence sitting and sheeping.

There are a few things wrong with this post.
1. You've been fencesitting and sheeping. The whole game.
2. Why just a FoS again?
3. I haven't done much either. Why does this only apply to TNE?

Then in 301, you call TNE "awfully scummy". And still no vote.

Cheo makes a good point about Pasch wanting Levi to post. My replacee, Alexcellent, hadn't posted either, but there's no mention of him.

Post 306 is either great bussing by Pasch or a serious town case. I'm starting to think the latter, unless Pasch is scum with TNE or Mallow. Still, that's a good case.

In 307, don says "chen is town. I am pretty sure of it." twice.

I don't like how in 309, don determines that mallow is scum from RVS, and then builds a case on him assuming he is scum. That's a terrible strategy, actually.

Pasche, if you were actually uncomfortable with the votes being out then you would unvote.

But oh wait, you're not actually uncomfortable. You're just putting on a show and playing off of what I just said in 315 so that you look more townie and people associate you with pro-town actions even though you're just beating around the bush.

If you still think my argument against you is just about that awful quicklynch, look again. IF that were it, then i'd be going after Don still too.

GIANT HAND OF SUSPICION: Pasch

This is very true, but why no vote?

Ok sorry if that was a big giant stream of consciousness and it didn't make sense, but I'm officially caught up.

My biggest suspect right now is Chen. I think he is scum with don, but don hasn't been all that scummy by himself. He just is so sure of Cheo town because of "effort." That's dumb, because me, TNE, and mallow admittedly haven't been putting forth much effort and at least one of us is town.

Pasch is my second individual scumread. I don't like how all of a sudden he needs me to post content, and as Chen mentioned, his "I don't think anyone should be voting until Elyse posts" while he is voting is pretty bad.

Mallow is meh, TNE is even more meh. Either could be scum with Pasch.

So either the team is Chen/don or Pasch/mallow or TNE.

VOTE: Chenoan

L-1

VOTE: Paschendale

[don_johnson]

pasch: you have ignored my requests. your case against me/chen is built on convenience here. please go back and address the issues i brought up for you.

chen: you are again leaning town for me. this is madness. TNE and Pasch are both creeping up my scumdar for their bullheaded play here. that means mallow may be town.

unvote

is pasch/TNE viable? mallow and Elyse, please comment. i'm witholding any more voting until we get all our cards on the table here and i am going to try and reread with a clear mind.

pasch: you are ignoring content.

p-edit: i see a Elyse post, no time to look through it. but i will. thanks. i'll be out for a few hours but try to address this more tonight.

[Elyse]

Yes, TNE and Pasch is viable.

[Chenoan]

This looks like scum afraid to step on toes.

If you're referring to the way the post is written... I was trying to be witty. If you're referring to the vote itself... at some point I explained why I did a secondary RVS on Voided, too. I'll find that post if you want me too, but yea.

The Mallow scum arguments are along the lines of why he's a secondary scum read to me. At this point I'm fairly positive scum is Pasch/TNE, but more sure of Pasch. Pasch/Mallow could be a thing too, maybe, as could TNE/Mallow. But I find both pairings unlikely. The only pairing for Mallow that makes sense to me is Don/Mallow, but I don't think Don is scum. In case you wondered, at this point I don't think you're scum either, Elyse.

The NK doesn't think Mallow is scum, but thinks Chenoan is.

AA's suspicion of Chenoan continues.

I thought that AA dropped me on their suspect list towards the end of the day? -looks-

Okay so I guess I'm on their secondary scum list in 245, along with Mallow and Elyse. I guess that still counts as suspicion? I dunno. Seeing as most of the players still alive were ranked null-scum or higher, it didn't concern me.

Interesting to point out that Pasch was AA's highest suspicion (still alive), though. I hadn't noticed that til now.

Also, when reading where TNE and I replaced in, no one asked who was replacing for which slot, and it didn't specify. It could be because our replacees didn't post, or it could be that TNE's scumbuddy didn't needed to ask, because he posted in the QT.

I was going to ask this when y'all first came in, but I figured since no one else asked there must've been something I was missing. I found the answer in the first post of the game. The player roster has you guys next to who you replaced and stuff.

I don't like Cheo's FoS on Pasch as opposed to a vote, especially when he is aware that you can have more than one vote and mentioned that later. The rest of 167 and 168 continues bashing Pasch, but still no vote.

The FoS was for all the reasons I stated before. At the time of the FoS I wasn't sure of how many votes were on him. By the time I finished the post I was also really unsure of my read because I realized how much of it was based on the quickhammer.

Then there was a votecount, and Pasch gave a BS answer to a direct accusation. So I voted.

Pasch's "the spotlight is on me and only me" is just a bad cry for help, and since he wasn't even lynched, it wasn't even true.

If it's a cry for help, who do you think it was directed towards? At first when I read this I assumed you meant scumbuddy, but then I realized you could also mean town. So who?

This reads as town to me. I don't think Mallow is experienced enough to say this as scum.

Eh. Questioning experience is one thing, but I think that's a bit of a stretch... Anyone of any experience level can attempt any thing. When I first read that post I thought it was kinda scummy, but now I no longer see it that way. Still. I don't think things should be disregarded just because of relative experience levels.

Don't like this at all. How has Bo manipulated you without even talking (or posting) to you?

I felt like Bo was being manipulative in the way he was promptly there to agree with people/defend people, etc. It felt like I couldn't form an untainted read because of how much he had his hands on things.

Hm. The only person you think is town died. Even if you are town, posting your reads just before the day ends is idiotic. It's a roadmap for who scum should kill.

I'm not the only one who townread AA. And sorry, I felt it was a beneficial thing to do at the time. Point taken for the future.

This is really, really bad logic.

Why? If I know a player is innocent, and I see another player pushing for the innocent's lynch, how is that not scummy? I'm not saying it's hugely scummy, but it at least deserves acknowledgement. Especially based on how desperately little content there was to be had at the time.

There are a few things wrong with this post.
1. You've been fencesitting and sheeping. The whole game.
2. Why just a FoS again?
3. I haven't done much either. Why does this only apply to TNE?

1. How so? What have I sheeped? How have I been on the fence?

Then in 301, you call TNE "awfully scummy". And still no vote.

Awfully scummy, yes, but if you read through my other posts you'd see the reason...

For now just one vote. Everyone should be careful to keep track of their votes right now. If we're not successful in killing scum this time then we'll be at LyLo.

I want to be careful where my votes are. Also, at the time it was still just suspicion, and not nearly as strong as my read on Pasch. When we're in a place where poorly placed votes can easily lead to a mislynch, why would I put out a vote I was unsure on?

Cheo makes a good point about Pasch wanting Levi to post. My replacee, Alexcellent, hadn't posted either, but there's no mention of him.

I noticed that too. But it was a generally across the board thing. I credited the lack of Alexcellent mentions to the fact that he'd made an RVS vote, whereas Leviathan hadn't posted at all. Besides, my hunting on Leviathan stuff left me at more or less a neutral point - since Bo mentioned him so many times and is conftown.

Post 306 is either great bussing by Pasch or a serious town case. I'm starting to think the latter, unless Pasch is scum with TNE or Mallow. Still, that's a good case.

Who do you think Pasch is bussing? I read his argument as primarily crap logic (see: 315). This comment makes me unsure who you think is scum.

This is very true, but why no vote?

Because I was still holding off on my vote until we had activity from you and TNE. Like I said at the very end of 315. Unlike Pasch I actually act on the concerns I have.

I dislike the vote on me, but I still think you're probably town. And since you're the one we've been waiting on, there's no reason to actually avoid L-1 I guess. If I get quickhammered hopefully I get the same amount of twilight time as everyone else got.

VOTE: Pasch
Still only keeping one vote. I don't think it's wise to spread our votes out too much, as more people at high L-#s makes it easier for scum to mislynch.

[Chenoan]

Oh. I just checked the votecount again. I think that Pasch is at L-1 now too.

Please, if you want to hammer declare intent first so that people who want to unvote get the opportunity. If there had been intent posted with Voided or Bo's lynches then they might never have happened.

[Paschendale]

Funny how you attack me for my lynch vote, Chen, but give Don a pass for his.

Obvious buddying is obvious.

Don demands that I answer all his queries! Despite them mostly being requests to restate my cases to his satisfaction, which is weird because I'm not trying to convince him that he's scum.

pasch: please reread my 229. do you really think its "furious backpedaling"? was my suspicion of bo unfounded? i also waited to vote bo until after a votecount. do you think that is something scum might do.

Yes. Not necessarily unfounded, but wrong and I think malicious. Yes.

Both of Chen and Don's defenses against my attacks amount to little more than whining that I didn't point out a flaw in every single one of their posts. As if scum give themselves away in each of their posts.

Pasche, if you were actually uncomfortable with the votes being out then you would unvote.

"Derp derp, if you were town you would do X. I said it so must be true. Derp derp."

But oh wait, you're not actually uncomfortable. You're just putting on a show and playing off of what I just said in 315 so that you look more townie and people associate you with pro-town actions even though you're just beating around the bush.

More derping.

If you still think my argument against you is just about that awful quicklynch, look again. IF that were it, then i'd be going after Don still too.

"Derp derp, I'm clearly town because if I were scum I wouldn't be doing this dumb thing that I'm doing."

Pasch - (Most scummy player right now. See my prior posts for more full arguments)

Remember this? I ISO'd him when he posted this yesterday. No full arguments. He just restates that he suspects me, over and over. In 297, 283, 274 (in which he says he plans to vote for me before even seeing Bo's flip), 271, 264...

Back in 179 he actually has a reason when he votes me. It's because I misread the word "Bro" as "Bo", and addressed a post specifically about Bo because of it. Yeah, compelling...

Chen knows there's no reason to vote for me. He just keeps repeating that he has reasons to make everyone forget that he doesn't. He hasn't updated or re-evaluated a read on me since before Bo's wagon was even building.

Chen is clearly reaching and trying to fabricate a case where none exists. If he were town, he would recognize this and refine his arguments to reflect new information. That's what scumhunting is. But Chen isn't scumhunting. He's mislynch hunting. And he thinks he can push a mislynch on me.

[Chenoan]

Funny how you attack me for my lynch vote, Chen, but give Don a pass for his.

Don didn't say that people should not be voting. At least not that I saw? If I missed it, please show me. What he DID say was that we shouldn't spread our votes out too much, which I agree with. Thanks for trying to misrep me yet again.

Don demands that I answer all his queries! Despite them mostly being requests to restate my cases to his satisfaction, which is weird because I'm not trying to convince him that he's scum.

I find it odd that you dislike someone asking you to restate something because that something is about them. What, unable to word arguments in a non-BS way? How is it weird for someone to want an argument, especially one against them, to be explained further?

Both of Chen and Don's defenses against my attacks amount to little more than whining that I didn't point out a flaw in every single one of their posts. As if scum give themselves away in each of their posts.

Again, completely ignoring all of my posting and trying to make it seem like it doesn't exist. Unlike you I've actually been responding to things in detail and pointing out your scum faults as I go. You make blanket statements so that you don't have to actually back them up.

"Derp derp, if you were town you would do X. I said it so must be true. Derp derp."

I never said "if you were town" at all in any context. What I DID say was that if you actually were consistent with your post, your behavior would match it. In short: I called you out on a lie. You didn't like that, so you're trying to attack my post and insult me at the same time without actually addressing the argument. Please keep this to the game and don't get petty.

I dunno about you, but I'm not in middle school, and so I don't want to deal with middle school insults.

If you still think my argument against you is just about that awful quicklynch, look again. IF that were it, then i'd be going after Don still too.

"Derp derp, I'm clearly town because if I were scum I wouldn't be doing this dumb thing that I'm doing."

Again a misrep. What I said was that your argument was flawed. You dislike that, so you're trying to spew junk logic to cover your tracks.

No full arguments.

Do you want me to make a summary post where I state each and every reason I have to think your scummy in one spot. Will that make you feel better? Because I can do that. I can try and make it as monosyllabic as possible, too, so that you don't think I'm "derping" and can actually read my arguments instead of ignoring them.

Back in 179 he actually has a reason when he votes me. It's because I misread the word "Bro" as "Bo", and addressed a post specifically about Bo because of it. Yeah, compelling...

That's not why I voted you. I voted because even once the misreading was pointed out, you still side-stepped it. Thanks for misrepping yet again.

Chen knows there's no reason to vote for me. He just keeps repeating that he has reasons to make everyone forget that he doesn't. He hasn't updated or re-evaluated a read on me since before Bo's wagon was even building.

Need another reason beyond all the ones i've said already? How about all the misreps you've done in this post alone? You need to start actualy reading people's posts and arguments and responding to them specifically rather than trying to make blanket statements.

Chen is clearly reaching and trying to fabricate a case where none exists. If he were town, he would recognize this and refine his arguments to reflect new information. That's what scumhunting is. But Chen isn't scumhunting. He's mislynch hunting. And he thinks he can push a mislynch on me.

Oh man, you know who's actually now making a "If you were town" argument? You. My arguments HAVE been developing and growing. If you were interested in actual discourse, you'd realize that. But you're not. You're apparently just interested in continuous junk logic spewing and stating and restating how you'd be a mislynch. For some reason I just don't believe you.

[Paschendale]

Chen is clearly reaching and trying to fabricate a case where none exists. If he were town, he would recognize this and refine his arguments to reflect new information. That's what scumhunting is. But Chen isn't scumhunting. He's mislynch hunting. And he thinks he can push a mislynch on me.

Oh man, you know who's actually now making a "If you were town" argument? You. My arguments HAVE been developing and growing. If you were interested in actual discourse, you'd realize that. But you're not. You're apparently just interested in continuous junk logic spewing and stating and restating how you'd be a mislynch. For some reason I just don't believe you.

Yes, I'm aware that I made that argument. But I give reasons why town should do that, and it should be incredibly obvious that townies should scumhunt. Meanwhile, your assertion was arbitrary and based on nothing. Attempting to draw a false equivalency doesn't look very good for you. Again, if you had good reasons to suspect me, you'd have more than one hammer and some logical fallacies to back it up.

For example...

Back in 179 he actually has a reason when he votes me. It's because I misread the word "Bro" as "Bo", and addressed a post specifically about Bo because of it. Yeah, compelling...

That's not why I voted you. I voted because even once the misreading was pointed out, you still side-stepped it. Thanks for misrepping yet again.

I didn't side step anything. I truthfully answered the question. You have nothing but an unfounded assertion that I did anything else. Like with all of your arguments. And most of the rest of this big post is more complaining that I didn't address every single thing you've said. I don't address everything. I address things when I have something to add. If a direct question is put to me, I'll answer it.

I hope the contrast between my use of facts and evidence to show that Chen has posited duplicitous cases to promote mislynches and Chen's unfounded assertions and logical fallacies will demonstrate to everyone else who could reasonably be town (Elyse, TNE, and Mallow), that Chen is very likely scum, and I am a hardworking, scumhunting, townie.

[Paschendale]

Chen is clearly reaching and trying to fabricate a case where none exists. If he were town, he would recognize this and refine his arguments to reflect new information. That's what scumhunting is. But Chen isn't scumhunting. He's mislynch hunting. And he thinks he can push a mislynch on me.

Oh man, you know who's actually now making a "If you were town" argument? You. My arguments HAVE been developing and growing. If you were interested in actual discourse, you'd realize that. But you're not. You're apparently just interested in continuous junk logic spewing and stating and restating how you'd be a mislynch. For some reason I just don't believe you.

Yes, I'm aware that I made that argument. But I give reasons why town should do that, and it should be incredibly obvious that townies should scumhunt. Meanwhile, your assertion was arbitrary and based on nothing. Attempting to draw a false equivalency doesn't look very good for you. Again, if you had good reasons to suspect me, you'd have more than one hammer and some logical fallacies to back it up.

For example...

Back in 179 he actually has a reason when he votes me. It's because I misread the word "Bro" as "Bo", and addressed a post specifically about Bo because of it. Yeah, compelling...

That's not why I voted you. I voted because even once the misreading was pointed out, you still side-stepped it. Thanks for misrepping yet again.

I didn't side step anything. I truthfully answered the question. You have nothing but an unfounded assertion that I did anything else. Like with all of your arguments. And most of the rest of this big post is more complaining that I didn't address every single thing you've said. I don't address everything. I address things when I have something to add. If a direct question is put to me, I'll answer it.

I hope the contrast between my use of facts and evidence to show that Chen has posited duplicitous cases to promote mislynches and Chen's unfounded assertions and logical fallacies will demonstrate to everyone else who could reasonably be town (Elyse, TNE, and Mallow), that Chen is very likely scum, and I am a hardworking, scumhunting, townie.

[don_johnson]

pasch: you again avoided addressing a boat load of content.

elyse: is there anythjing in your giant post you particularly need me to address? i explained my bo hammer a bit earlier. that span of six or so posts was my train of thought at the time, and one of bo's last posts just read off to me. it seemed as though bo was twisting words to make someone look bad, which is where my "he is either scum or needs a class" comment came in. i realize that a players ability to communicate is not indicative of alignment, but it certainly serves to muddy the waters when you are trying to discern someones alignment. for instance, paschendales last couple posts have been riddled with ad hom arguments against chen and myself. that imo is more indicative of scum, but some players are just like that regardless of alignment. it certainly doesn't help me get a read on him. tbh, at this point i am fine with a pasch lynch. i seriously doubt chen is scum. chen and AA were my biggest town reads going into today and though there are a few things which give me doubts, chen just seems more level headed and genuinely interested in managing this game for a town win. nothing chen is doing seems like it would be advancingh the scum win condition right now. we have three dead townies in a row. townies at this point should be playing cautious. pasch is hellbent on a chen/don scum team and has not addressed anything else. there is no foresight to his game here.

mallow: what are your thoughts on chen/don? what are your thoughts on TNE/Pasch? what are your thoughts on Elyse.

pasch/chen: near impossible pairing here. is everyone else confident in this?

[don_johnson]

pasch: can you explain chen's "logical fallacies" one more time in layman's terms?

[Chenoan]

So basically, if Pasch can't counter a point someone makes he's putting under a blanket umbrella of "logical fallacies", refusing to expound any further, and then ignoring it.

I am in full favor of a Pasch lynch. If someone declares intent to hammer I will not oppose at all.

[Feirei]

Votecount in the next hour. Maybe tomorrow.

[Feirei]

VOTECOUNT 2.0.2

mallowgeno (1) TNE
thenewearth (0)
Elyse (0)
Chenoan (3) TNE, Pasch, Elyse
Paschendale (3) mallow, Elyse, Chenoan
don_johnson (2) Pasch, thenewearth

Not Voting Anyone (1) don_johnson

V/LAs/Lynch Info/Deadline

With

6

in play, it takes

4

to eviscerate.
Countdown to deadline:

(expired on 2013-04-21 00:20:10)

! If Time runs out,

Paschendale

will go to the gallows for this half day (and the deadline will be extended for 5 days)

Notices

--Your mod is still getting over this illness that has been haunting them, so votecounts and other stuff may be sporadic.

[thenewearth]

*cough* prod dodging again *cough*

[Chenoan]

I mean... I forgot that I could still vote don after reading

Got distracted by the Pasch argument and forgot about this.

This reasoning seems awful convenient. But okay. Then why didn't you vote back when you were first reminded?

Also, how do you think its at all beneficial to be voting for 50% of the currently alive players? Not only that, you're just voting for all the players that are at all suspected except Pasch. Worried about your scumbuddy?

Fairly certain that the pairing is Pasch/TNE at this point.

[thenewearth]

Because I'm voting who I think are scum >.>

Not people who are the prime suspects

[don_johnson]

i want to hammer pasch. there's a little voice in my head saying "mallow... mallow". and i can't get it to shut up. but truth is, if both scum are in Elyse/mallow/TNE, then we've probably already lost.

fuck it.

vote paschendale

if he flips town its lylo. so please. townies don't vote. maybe just state intent or something.

[Chenoan]

You really should declare intent so that if someone doesn't want it to happen they can unvote x.x

[don_johnson]

irrelevant at this stage. probably at any stage. if you don't want someone at L-1, don't put 'em there. and don't leave 'em there. don't be a pussy. this type of reaction hurts my town read on you if pasch flips town. besides, do you disagree with my post?

truth is, if both scum are in Elyse/mallow/TNE, then we've probably already lost.