Mini 1836: Space Mafia (Game Over)


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Post Post #3350 (ISO) » Mon Nov 14, 2016 1:33 pm

Post by Toto »

In post 2509, Dunnstral wrote:
In post 2506, Xkfyu wrote:
In post 2505, Dunnstral wrote:
In post 2498, Dunnstral wrote:If gerry is town scum have another roleblocker. All we have to do is let twoface watch me being roleblocked while naomi protects him
Would appreciate people not glossing over this as it's fairly straightforward
Who do you suggest we lynch then?
Zach

Not related to me and individually scummy
Except there is no Zach vote to follow this. So they didn't lynch him and they JKed just to make him look bad. Of course.

They could have chosen any other target to make them look bad but chose the one Dunn had been tunneling all game and could have actually said that Dunn was "just trying to fuck them". They also chose a target that was a likely Vig kill in favor of killing Gerry or TwoFace. Why is making a target look bad and let Dunn die a good idea anyway? If I was scum you think Dunn and Nos would have been fine with me finishing up the game for them?

Like, I don't know why Zach is still alive once you think about it.
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Post Post #3351 (ISO) » Mon Nov 14, 2016 1:37 pm

Post by Zachstralkita »

Why are you portraying it like that? It looks like he was proposing a theory there commenting on what was going on at that time.

You're saying that post was him actively trying to push my lynch and because it was something he didn't act on, that automatically makes us connected.




U should run for office dude all you do is take what other people say and manipulate it to fit your purposes
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Post Post #3352 (ISO) » Mon Nov 14, 2016 1:46 pm

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In post 2549, Dunnstral wrote:Zach works for me
Still no Zach vote.

Yeah, they decided to frame the only townie everyone wanted to kill the previous day. That's much more believable.
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Post Post #3353 (ISO) » Mon Nov 14, 2016 2:13 pm

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Why not frame Xk, Grapes, Naomi, Gerry, or even fucking Massive who didn't do shit all game, if Zach was probably going to get lynched at some point anyway. Why frame Zach?
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Post Post #3354 (ISO) » Mon Nov 14, 2016 2:28 pm

Post by Zachstralkita »

When he cites your second in-game post during RVS and claims you are pocketing someone :oops:


Spoiler:
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Post Post #3355 (ISO) » Mon Nov 14, 2016 2:37 pm

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Don't try to change the subject.
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Post Post #3356 (ISO) » Tue Nov 15, 2016 3:06 am

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In post 3353, Toto wrote:Why not frame Xk, Grapes, Naomi, Gerry, or even fucking Massive who didn't do shit all game, if Zach was probably going to get lynched at some point anyway. Why frame Zach?
right now this is pretty much the only thing you have going for you atm. I just can't wrap my head around why he jk'd zach

The fact that Dunn accused you of being coached yet never pushed you doesn't look good for you.
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Post Post #3357 (ISO) » Tue Nov 15, 2016 4:10 am

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In post 1991, Toto wrote:Grapes just wanted to trade with Dunn who is a mafia PR.
this post is hard to ignore given that dunn was actually mafia pr
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Post Post #3358 (ISO) » Tue Nov 15, 2016 4:11 am

Post by TwoFace »

can I just tell you that I hate lylo. I hate that if I am wrong, people are going to blame me and I can't handle that. I never care about winning or losing but when I am responsible for the loss I take it personally.
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Post Post #3359 (ISO) » Tue Nov 15, 2016 4:50 am

Post by Zachstralkita »

No I'd take some too for not trying but you're not going to QH, so I have time to be as substantial as I've been meaning to be
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Post Post #3360 (ISO) » Tue Nov 15, 2016 6:36 am

Post by Toto »

Dunn did push me a couple of times. Early D1 and early D2.

My grapes/dunn thing was a crazy theory and a mistake. I was reading both of them as scum and was trying to find a theory that fit my reads.

Zach's ISO screams scum. All the signs are there. He was just trying to blend in all game with no real attacks or game solving.

I did not understand why they would JK him either, hence my frustration earlier. But now I can see that it also doesn't make sense that they would JK him. Why would they?

My guess? They played all in that Dunn was not going to die. Dunn was compromised, Zach was compromised, Nos was a prime suspect too. None of them would have made it here alone unless they had a story. Maybe Dunn thought that his altruistic "vig should shoot me" would result in vigi not shooting him. But honestly I don't know what they were thinking.

Maybe they just betted the game on that vigi would shoot Zach, or that we would believe this BS. Which we have. The fact that we are even having this conversation proves it is not a bad play.

I know it must be a difficult decision. I'll answer questions if you have more.
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Post Post #3361 (ISO) » Tue Nov 15, 2016 6:43 am

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In post 3356, TwoFace wrote:The fact that Dunn accused you of being coached yet never pushed you doesn't look good for you.
That was pretty smart from Dunn. I would give you a counter argument but I can't because it would break the rules.
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Post Post #3362 (ISO) » Tue Nov 15, 2016 6:51 am

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In post 68, Dunnstral wrote:Did you get coached...? This doesn't really match up with your previous posts
He is just planting a seed here. Why would he add the [...] for suspense.
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Post Post #3363 (ISO) » Tue Nov 15, 2016 6:52 am

Post by TwoFace »

how was zach compromised?
I don't think Nos was on anyone's radar outside of being a lurker
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Post Post #3364 (ISO) » Tue Nov 15, 2016 6:57 am

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In post 3363, TwoFace wrote:how was zach compromised?
I don't think Nos was on anyone's radar outside of being a lurker
Zach got to L-1 on D2.

Nos was J/Ked by Dunn. If Dunn died Nos was gone. Also a lurker would have a hard time reaching lylo.
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Post Post #3365 (ISO) » Tue Nov 15, 2016 7:36 am

Post by Zachstralkita »

I disagree

Hypothetically Nosferatu was only scumread because he lurked I think. I never scumread him. He played different from the other game I was in with him where he was also scum


Ya my ISO screams scum.. like that was the goal for a scum player. You are just pandering to TwoFace trying to get this win handed to you.

I'm pretty sure JKing me was Dunn's final refuge. I doubt he planned for things to play out as they did but it still benefits him and it does even more in terms of people seeing me as scum. You and Nosferatu were more to the side but was the central player in the team. He just drew too much attention to himself which will inevitably be why you lose here. I know him, his personality is too loud and if he does not have scumpartners that can make him not seem as overt he will probably not be very compatible with them.

If you look at Dunn's ISO it looks like he played a really shitty game but it seemed deliberate. Dunn always tunnels me so I wouldn't have scumread him for doing that. A few on this player list are familiar with him so I doubt they would have either. It probably was a subterfuge to coast and his contigency plan was to JK me. I presume that's why I was kept alive, because almost no one save for grapes agreed with me fully and if I was kept alive there would be no credence to Dunn being scum in the town's eye because the guy who was presumably the loudest threat to him was kept alive. I'm pretty sure I only agreed with TwoFace about massive at the time. Toto has yet to show where I've sheeped anything. You just said a bunch of shit that I did and next to it put your own explanations to support your agenda. This is different from those posts actually supporting your agenda because you're making up an entirely new intention for them.

You said I bussed Dunn and that we "designed" it to be sort of noncommital. You support this by saying there was no progression or gamesolving in my read. That's faulty because I was sure Dunn was scum based off of what I mentioned when I voted him. If I had to sort him, I wouldn't have been pushing for his lynch the whole fucking game. The truth is as carefree as I played this game I was dead on right about scum once and still got no credit for it, instead I got pushed exactly how Dunn wanted me to. And you're still going to lose when I start posting about
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Post Post #3366 (ISO) » Tue Nov 15, 2016 7:47 am

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Zach all town was already seeing you as scum on D2. We double hammered you. Why would Dunn have to compromise you more than that?
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Post Post #3367 (ISO) » Tue Nov 15, 2016 8:11 am

Post by Zachstralkita »

Why are you talking to me like I actually know what Dunn's plan was? I'm already at a disadvantage.
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Post Post #3368 (ISO) » Tue Nov 15, 2016 8:20 am

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In post 3365, Zachstralkita wrote:I'm pretty sure JKing me was Dunn's final refuge.
but seriously why would he do that?

This is why we needed to lynch you first but nobody wanted to listen to me. Everyone said you being jk'd meant you are probably town.

The biggest issue I can see right now is toto's reaction this day phase and the day phase when nobody died. It doesn't makes sense as town.

1. trying to figure out why no town died like it was somehow important really struck me as weird
2. complaining that my role is over powered, REALLY strikes me as weird.

Had scum tried to block me, Nos would not have been lynched when he was. I would have received no information whatsoever.

Zach just looks like townie playing poorly, toto looks like scum not being able to figure things out and is frustrated. I am not yet ready to hammer but if I had to right now I would hammer toto. I still want to look over things when I get some time.
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Post Post #3369 (ISO) » Tue Nov 15, 2016 8:33 am

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Scum doesn't need to figure out anything. It is town that need to figure things out. I'm the newb here if there is anyone being a newbtown it is me.

How can you possibly say Zach is a townie playing poorly? That makes no sense whatsoever. I'm sorry 2face. This is probably going to get me killed and make town lose but your logic makes no sense.
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Post Post #3370 (ISO) » Tue Nov 15, 2016 8:47 am

Post by Zachstralkita »

TwoFace wrote:
In post 3365, Zachstralkita wrote:I'm pretty sure JKing me was Dunn's final refuge.
but seriously why would he do that?
um you're asking me?

And you have to tell me who "Everyone" was that said being jk'd meant I was probably town. The only person I can recall doing that is grapes


anyways I'll be going through Toto's ISO and this one is important cause I'm actually going to be saying things closer to the truth

EXHIBIT 1

He comes into the game comfortable enough but his first initial vote and unvote strikes me as odd. Or I'm just nitpicking. But in #24 it looks like he's trying to be careful with who he votes. Or at least, who he stays on voting. Maybe so his votes could not come back to haunt him later on?


- #165 , first push on grapes. But he first says he has a nullread on grapes in 52...
In post 52, Toto wrote:@Grapes: I imagine most people base their non-random votes on their reads and their own role. Basically, I think it depends on what information they have, or think they have, and what they are trying to achieve.

For example, you seem to have non-randomly voted me after I asked if RVS was over.

Maybe you did that because town!you read that as a suspicious question from newbscum, and wanted to pressure me to get more hypothetical damming evidence.

Also, if, hypothetically, you were scum, you could have read that as a lost newbtown, easy lynch bait, and pressure me to get me myslynched.

There could have been other reasons, that I'm not aware of yet, of why you did it.

I don't have a strong opinion on which is more likely at this point. That's why I'm reading you as null, same as pretty much everyone else so far, and not non-randomly voting yet.

I hope that answers your question.
I looked at the posts grapes made between that post and his vote in 165 and I did not see what prompted such read progression..

But what's interesting is that in that span grapes also acquired votes from massive and Maria. And Toto was taking heat at the time. It looks like there had to be a diversion. And quick. If anyone tried to give off the appearance of gamesolving, it would be him. He also kept fostering conversation with people(Yep, no quotes here) but I do not think it was intended to generate information, only appear as such.



Toto wrote:Scum doesn't need to figure out anything. It is town that need to figure things out. I'm the newb here if there is anyone being a newbtown it is me.

How can you possibly say Zach is a townie playing poorly? That makes no sense whatsoever. I'm sorry 2face. This is probably going to get me killed and make town lose but your logic makes no sense.
Um, pretty sure you said I was a townie playing poorly. Remember? Yesterday? The day when your life wasn't in danger? Maybe those weren't your exact words, but you were perfectly fine with YOURSELF saying that Dunn framed me when it didn't threaten you.

Silly, town only loses if I die. You're trying to reverse guilt trip him.
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Post Post #3371 (ISO) » Tue Nov 15, 2016 8:54 am

Post by Zachstralkita »

the NK definitely makes sense because grapes supported me and TwoFace definitely did not. You probably assumed that this would be cut and dry and over way quicker because of how easily I got votes in the prior days and the fact that TwoFace was itching to kill me and would probably view everything I said as utter shit. I'm not saying he doesn't now, but at least he's assessing his information.
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Post Post #3372 (ISO) » Tue Nov 15, 2016 9:13 am

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Interesting case zach. Why didnt you question me during the game about this when you were scumreading me?
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Post Post #3373 (ISO) » Tue Nov 15, 2016 9:19 am

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In post 3369, Toto wrote:Scum doesn't need to figure out anything.
the day after scum tries to kill me and the kill fails, they absolutely do need to figure out something. They are the ONLY one who needs to figure out something. They need to figure out why the kill failed.
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Post Post #3374 (ISO) » Tue Nov 15, 2016 9:19 am

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In post 3369, Toto wrote:How can you possibly say Zach is a townie playing poorly?
because if he is town, he's playing poorly...

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