Mini 715: Legends of Literature Mafia (Over)

[Caboose]

caboose, earlier you also included Jazz in your list of possible suspects. What changed?

I'm just not seeing Lenny as an SK, but Jazzmyn isn't completely suspicion-free, though.

[neko2086]

Why not? Lenny's not an entirely innocent character.

Also, what's so badass about Dr. Dolittle? I'm not sure we can simply go off of how "good" a character is.

[roflcopter]

we can't go off of how "good" or "evil" a character is, but i think assuming a scumbag honestly claimed their character is a grievous mistake. i'm not going to base any suspicions on name claims.

i think that caboose is confirmed town, gw and carn are as good as confirmed, and i'm as close to confirmed as we're gonna get with a vanilla claim thanks to the doc protect n1.

which leaves iceman, neko, simenon and jazz. thats my order for likelihood of being an sk. if we're looking for one last mafioso (really, really, reallllly doubtful given the dearth of town power) it almost has to be sim.

[Simenon]

(We all probably know that Arthur Conan Doyle is the author of the Sherlock Holmes books, but still, why wouldn't Simenon divulge a specific book, and name the author anyway?)

It wasn't in my PM. Why the hell would I embellish?

Even after the request by Caboose that subsequent claimants specifically state their character, book, and author, Simenon didn't do so.

Anybody who doesn't know who wrote the Sherlock Holmes books should not be playing a game based on literature.
As for character, that's just plain wrong. Did you throw that in there because it sounded cool?
And as for book, as I said before, it wasn't there.

And Simenon still hasn't claimed anything beyond his character.

I claimed my role. You see, that's what matters, because nobody gives a shit if I describe the plot of The Hound of the Baskervilles.

[Simenon]

I think the SK is neko, jazz, ice in that order. Explanation to follow.

And as for my claim, if I were to lie, I would claim something separate from

Sherlock Holmes

.

[GhostWriter]

It wasn't in my PM.

Whoa, whoa, whoa. It wasn't there? Looking at the way my pm is setup, and the way that people are basing the truthfulness of claims by this, I'm going to assume all of our PMs are the same, in that we get told our role and role name, and then the author and book that we come from are written underneath it, in italics, inside of parentheses. Would anyone else care to verify this, or do we really have different message setups?

[neko2086]

^Same as mine.


Any reason why we don't think Sim could be the SK (other than he could be the cop but lying about it?)

[Simenon]

That's bizarre, because that's not what's in my PM. It's my character, a line of flavor, and the town win condition (followed by some line of the replacements.) I'm going to ask Der Hammer if that was the original role PM.

[Simenon]

Any reason why we don't think Sim could be the SK (other than he could be the cop but lying about it?)

very subtle!

[Caboose]

Well, we're not getting anywhere just sitting on our hands.

Vote: icemanE

[Caboose]

My role PM was the same as GW's, who is pretty much confirmed town to me.
I didn't get a win con in my role PM...

But anyway, we don't have a lot of content from either neko or ice from previous days, so there's not a lot to go on. But, in my mind, one of those two is the SK.

[roflcopter]

well, my pm doesn't include an author if that helps. but my book is the bible..

[Caboose]

well, my pm doesn't include an author if that helps. but my book is the bible..

No, it doesn't really help.
However, your opinion on who is the SK is.

[Caboose]

EBWOP:
However, your opinion on who is the SK

does

.

[roflcopter]

going off of vague memories of gut feelings, i'd say its either neko or iceman, but really this game deserves to be re-read in short order.

[CarnCarn]

That's bizarre, because that's not what's in my PM. It's my character, a line of flavor,

and the town win condition

(followed by some line of the replacements.)

I didn't get a win con in my role PM...

This.

Simenon's claim reeks more and more as we go along, but I'm still hesitant to think he is the last killer.

[roflcopter]

ok, you guys are right, i don't have a win con in my pm either.

this feels like the most bogus way to catch somebody ever, but i was already suspicious of vaquero/sim to begin with so...

vote: simenon

[Caboose]

ok, you guys are right, i don't have a win con in my pm either.

this feels like the most bogus way to catch somebody ever, but i was already suspicious of vaquero/sim to begin with so...

vote: simenon

Not understanding your vote.
Simenon admitted that was different even AFTER someone else shared what was in their role PM.

[GhostWriter]

Mod, I think we really need to know if it was just a mistake from his role pm coming as him replacing, and is thus not the original.

[Jazzmyn]

Okay, warning: stream of consciousness post coming, as I read recent posts.

It wasn't in my PM. Why the hell would I embellish? <etc., etc.>

Whoa. Down, boy. See the chronology below.

I'm Sherlock Holmes, a vanilla townie. So it's fairly obvious that I'm going to be lynched today, because that is an *awful* role.

Oh, and claim your name, role, book, and author.

And even though Simenon posted after Caboose's request for claims to specify name, role, book, and author, Simenon didn't mention either his book or author in his subsequent post:

I

could elaborate on what is suspicious about my claim. She has to elaborate on why it's similar to RBT's.

I responded to Simenon's post saying:

Will do.

I said, "will do" and I did do:

As for what I said about doubting Simenon's claim for reasons similar to the reasons I was suspicious of Riceballtail's claim, it is that Simenon also claimed a character who appears in several books, but claimed neither the specific book or the author. (We all probably know that Arthur Conan Doyle is the author of the Sherlock Holmes books, but still, why wouldn't Simenon divulge a specific book, and name the author anyway?) Even after the request by Caboose that subsequent claimants specifically state their character, book, and author, Simenon didn't do so.

So, in both cases, Riceballtail and Simenon claimed characters who are well known (although Riceballtail's claimed character is only well known in television, popular culture/song, etc. rather than in literature since he claimed Peter Cottontail rather than Peter Rabbit) and either harmless (fluffy bunny rabbit) or protagonist and obvious 'good guy' (Holmes). That said, I may very well have been wrong in thinking that the scum didn't know that the town role PMs specified the character, the book and author since, looking back, scum-SlySly's character was revealed as Shere Khan after his death. Yet, the characters of neither scum-Riceballtail nor mafia traitor-Tenchi have been revealed after their deaths.

Anyway, the point was that neither Riceballtail nor Simenon claimed a specific book and author to go with their character claim.

(We all probably know that Arthur Conan Doyle is the author of the Sherlock Holmes books, but still, why wouldn't Simenon divulge a specific book, and name the author anyway?) It wasn't in my PM. Why the hell would I embellish?

At the time that I asked the question, you had not said that it wasn't in your PM. Why so hostile?

Even after the request by Caboose that subsequent claimants specifically state their character, book, and author, Simenon didn't do so.

Anybody who doesn't know who wrote the Sherlock Holmes books should not be playing a game based on literature. As for character, that's just plain wrong. Did you throw that in there because it sounded cool?And as for book, as I said before, it wasn't there.

With regard to claiming your character, book, and author, do you not see the commas and the word "and" there? With regard to your comment, "as for the book, as I said before, it wasn't there", at the time that I asked the question, you had not mentioned that your role PM neglected to mention your book and author. Again, why so hostile to legitimate questions?

And Simenon still hasn't claimed anything beyond his character.

I claimed my role. You see, that's what matters, because nobody gives a shit if I describe the plot of The Hound of the Baskervilles.

The subject matter of my post, though, was your character, book, and author, not your role. And again, there is no need for hostility or rudeness, and no need to swear. My observations and questions are legitimate, and your responses seem a bit panicky.

Other thoughts: (As I warned at the outset, this is a stream of consciousness kind of post):

Most likely scenario: we have an SK. The mafia tried to kill rofl N0 and failed. Then, either both factions targetted rofl N1 (which I find unlikely) OR the mafia targetted the SK, the SK is immune to kills and the SK targetted rofl. The reason I say that the mafia tried to kill rofl N0 is that if they didn't, that means that the SK did, and it would be pretty silly to try to kill rofl two nights in a row when the first kill failed. The traitor might not have an NK, which is why there's only one kill N2.

I'm not quite following this. We had a night start (Night 1 as defined by the game moderator, not Night 0); Farside was killed on Night 1; Tenchi was killed on Night 2; could it not be that we have one more scum and no SK at all? Or is a SK required to balance out the mafia/town power? I don't know enough about the roles and various permutations of these kinds of games to know why or if it is more likely to have a SK than a third scum, so it is entirely possible that this makes perfect sense for reasons of which I am unaware, and if so, please enlighten me. But if there isn't a SK, then I don't understand why you think that because you protected someone, they must have been targeted. Would it not be just as likely that the person you protected wasn't targeted at all?

And, I just noticed this:

I protected rofl N0, N1, and N2.

How could you have protected anyone on N0, N1 and N2 when we had a night start that the game moderator designated as N1, and the only other night we've had since then is N2? We have only had two nights, but you are claiming three night protects? How can that be? The mod posted in post #1 that it was Night 1. Then the confirmations followed. Then the mod posted the rules in post #13 and the results of Night 1 in post #14 with Farside dead. So, two nights only. How could you possibly have had a Night 0 protect when we didn't even have a Night 0?

it was pretty clear to me as well that caboose-doc had protected me from a nightkill.

I don't understand this, either. How does the fact that you didn't die at night mean that someone must have protected you? Is it not just as likely, or more likely, that you were not targeted at all? And, no offence intended, but you generally tend to come across as somewhat scummy no matter your alignment, so why would the scum or the SK target you, let alone both?

Other thoughts: as I said above, I don't know a whole lot about certain roles and the relative likelihood or unlikelihood of having certain roles in certain games, but it does seem very strange indeed to not have a cop when we have a miller. So, I am inclined to think that we do have a cop who hasn't claimed for whatever reason. But what reason?

More thoughts: Regarding the role PMs, I replaced in as well, and my role PM gave me my character and vanilla townie role, with the name and author of the book in parentheses underneath that, followed by a one-line bit of flavour about my character, and then asking me to confirm receipt of the message in the thread. It said nothing about win conditions, and nothing about replacements. But it also did not have my book and author italicized within the parenthesis as some have said theirs did. So, it is entirely possible that the apparent discrepancies are a moderator inconsistency issue rather than anything else.

More thoughts:

should we perhaps claim our novels?

Looking back, this seems like an unusual thing to say for someone who later claims that his "novel" is the Bible.

More thoughts: Looking back, I also think that we can't make too much of the characters or books chosen, in light of the game moderator's post:

What if all the charactors from his favourite books came to life and had to interact with each other. Harry Potter and Gollum sitting down for a cup of tea, Goldfinger battling Mr Darcy.

Given the inclusion of Harry Potter and Goldfinger alongside legitimate classic literature characters, it appears that "legends of literature" in the view of the moderator is not necessarily restricted to classic literature, after all.

So, yeah, as I said, a stream of consciousness kind of post, but there you have it.

Regards,
Jazz

[roflcopter]

jazz, on day two, caboose suddenly seemed to

know

that i was town, he was telegraphing it clearly enough for me to pick up on it and apparently for gw and carn to talk about it in their night talk. i put his sudden knowledge together with the lack of nightkill and came to the conclusion that caboose had doc'd me. this is also why i demanded he be the one to pick the first claimant - i knew he would be the most demonstratably town.

[Jazzmyn]

jazz, on day two, caboose suddenly seemed to

know

that i was town, he was telegraphing it clearly enough for me to pick up on it and apparently for gw and carn to talk about it in their night talk. i put his sudden knowledge together with the lack of nightkill and came to the conclusion that caboose had doc'd me. this is also why i demanded he be the one to pick the first claimant - i knew he would be the most demonstratably town.

But as a doctor, I never

know

that the person I chose to protect is town until there is later evidence to support the idea that I had chosen wisely, and as a person protected by a doctor, I have no way of knowing that on Day 1. And Caboose claims to have protected you on Night 0, Night 1, and Night 2, even though we have had only two nights, not three. Which is weird.

Regards,
Jazz

[Jazzmyn]

jazz, on day two, caboose suddenly seemed to

know

that i was town, he was telegraphing it clearly enough for me to pick up on it and apparently for gw and carn to talk about it in their night talk. i put his sudden knowledge together with the lack of nightkill and came to the conclusion that caboose had doc'd me. this is also why i demanded he be the one to pick the first claimant - i knew he would be the most demonstratably town.

To add to what I said above, it makes no sense that Caboose could

know

that you are town just because he claims to have protected you on Night 1 and you didn't die. It makes no sense that he could

know

that you are town just because you weren't killed. Just because he protected you and you didn't die doesn't mean that you were targeted and doesn't mean that you are town. The only way that anyone could be sure that you are town on Day 1 is if they are the cop and investigated you and got an innocent result or if they are scum.

Regards,
Jazz

[Simenon]

I did 382 from memory, and you all are right, my PM does not contain a win condition. It is also the original role PM, so all the other stuff I said about it was true. I made a mistake.

I was originally just not going to write this post, because I didn't think I'd be lynched over the win condition thing, but if you did lynch me and I came up as vanilla town

with a win condition

, it would just have been too confusing.

[roflcopter]

jazz, we've had a total of three nights, not the two you seem to be recalling.

night zero/one (whatever you wanna call it) - farside gets killed

night one/two -

nobody dies

, caboose protected me

night two/three - tenchi gets killed

pretty much 100% confident that jazz is town now though