Open 302: JUNGLE REPUB nope game over! Party time!

[Twistedspoon]

claim VT

[Regfan]

@Regfan
That was a very persuasive strategy that you just did there. Why all of a sudden do you want us to not have Empking lynched?

My disagreement with an Empking lynch is nothing new, I fail to see how you can continue to push towards his lynch given his claim.

#1. I did not say that. I said as far as people we (I) could focus on, it'd be MUCH more productive to focus on someone that can defend themselves, not someone that's absent from the game. Do you disagree?

Yes. I disagree strongly. Pressuring someone who is less active is going to force them to post more thus providing more content and more information to read them on. Removing them from the 'To pressure' pool is just going to allow them to continue sliding on by.

It looked as though at least he had a reasoning behind his vote that I found valid.

In what was is "If he's town he will die tonight anyway" valid reasoning for voting someone?

Sloth - I'm awaiting answers from you.
zMuffin - Apart from Twisted who would you consider your stronger suspects to be?

[DeityKabuto]

I hate the fact that nobody wants Empking lynched anymore, but since Twistedspoon is at L-1, I guess this is what the town wants.

Unvote
Vote TwistedSpoon

This should at least provide us with more information which ever way he flips.

[MagnaofIllusion]

the difference?

I believe only one game we have played previously together, assuming you haven't meta'd myself

and my playstyle as confirmed town is rather different

Even just looking at Day 1 (where you were not confirmed) there are strong differences between your play under pressure and when scum-hunting for two factions (in Donner Party) and your play in this game.

--

Hez - you playstyle is interesting. Large walls explaining his feelings with little sign of actually identifying motivations.

- Magna #309 - where he is STILL focusing on "Empking could not have searched three games". Look, a town would be like "this point is moot I have
ten other points agaisnt you that are all highly relevant" whereas a scum would be looking for some new points, even if he has to invent them, to
make it seem like Empking is overwhelming scum (as opposed to highly likely scum). Greedy scum. (Still note: Empking is scum. I don't care for
Empking's alignment in determining MoI's)

Clearly I have no other points against Empking at all

- Magna #319 - Magna is scumhunting. I will give him that. Based on the setup of this game, it's irrelevant. But the point on Wicked is definitely
noted. ... but he finds Caboose suspicious. Ugh Ugh Ugh.

Clear indication that you are not reading for content. That was a list of players who make sense as Empking’s partners if he flips Evil Sheep. It was not a ‘Top Suspect’ list.

But why shouldn’t Caboose be suspicious? You feel lurking is a Town tell?

Your discrediting of my argument "he's just looking for things that could be scumtells" is noted. You don't need to be an excellent debater to find scum. I don't believe you to be town though. You kill people at night. (Or maybe you are evil sheep) How's that?

Rather marginal. You do get credit for going with more than rhetoric (“He’s scum because I say he is”). Either you are mediocre Town you doesn’t understand the concept of scum motivation or scum of some flavor reaching.

Further game-play will tell.

FOS: All those on Empking's wagon after the Seer claim. This is an open game, folks. You don't lynch the only claimed power role on Day One. (FYI, I still believe Empking is scum, but this is BASIC MAFIA THEORY PEOPLE).

This is the kind of grandstanding I expect to see from scum in a game like this. Scum-points to you.

--

Can you link me to the Empkingtown game where you believe he played differently?

My direct game with Empking as Town was LMP’s KGB Mini Normal Mafia.

--

MangaofIllusion (Your tactic was to act like you were on Empking's wagon until you and your Mafia scum could find a plan to get him off the hook, now Regfan has done it)

Thanks DK. I needed a good laugh this morning.

Let me ask – should I not find the timing of this sudden suspicion interesting in light of Hezlucky’s vote?

You hammer on a player you didn’t list as Scum in your last post is also noted.

[Twistedspoon]

have I been hammered?

[Umbrage]

Twistedspoon (7) - zMuffinMan, Wickedestjr, Caboose, Sloth, MagnaofIllusion, Regfan, DeityKabuto (HAMMER!)
Empking (1) - cjdrum
DeityKabuto (1) - Twistedspoon
neil1113 (1) - Empking
HezLucky (1) - neil1113
MagnaofIllusion (1) - HezLucky

The sheep argue, debate, and drink tea. Hoofs were pointed at Empking, but they dropped when they heard his claims. Soon all eyes fell on Twistedspoon. Realizing that the majority was on their side, the sheep grew more bold in their attacks, until DeityKabuto suddenly sprang forward and shoved Twistedspoon into the pit that contained the Killing Stone.

The sheep watched his body fall with bated breath, and Twistedspoon's final scream was abruptly ended by a sickening squish. Peering into the pit, they saw sheep intestines and other gore surrounding a bloody impaled mess.

In a blinding flash the DEVIL appeared. Standing over the pit, he watched as Twistedspoon's spirit rose up toward him. The sheep watched, eager to see if the soul would be claimed. But no such luck, Twistedspoon rose up towards the sky, disappearing among the clouds.

The DEVIL waved his staff (oh yeah did I mention I have this totally awesome staff?) and darkness descended upon the Republic. It was a horrible darkness, full of foul things.

Luckily, the sheep knew the darkness would only last until Friday.

Twistedspoon has been lynched. He was a Vanilla Townie.

Countdown to next day.

[Umbrage]

Caboose has not picked up his prod. I am now looking to replace him. Day 2 will not begin until he has been replaced.

[Umbrage]

And........ LynchMePls promptly replaces Caboose!

[Umbrage]

At long last, the darkness lifts, and sheep gaze upon the bloody ground. There's a bit of wool to one side, what looks like a spleen somewhere else, and fragments of bone splintered everywhere. The Devil appears once more. In a flash of light, a ghostly figure appears next to him. You know who it is. The spectre has a strange glow to it, the spirit is brimming with magic. In one gesture, the handsome Devil lets the magical ghost ascend to the sky above, then he himself vanishes once more.

As one, the remaining sheep turn to look back at the Killing Stone. Time to try once again, and rid yourselves of the EVIL menace lurking among you. They might have killed your Seer, but they won't take your homeland.

Empking, Seer, has been killed Night 1.

Day 2 begins now. With 10 alive, it takes 6 to lynch.

[cjdrum]

What the frakking frak was the frakking spam wall for, then?

Bloody hell. Bloo-dy hell.

So with the Seer gone, we've only got VTs against the Wolves

and

Mafia?
Bloody hell. Gonna have to do some ISOing.

[LimMePls]

Here are my catchup notes I wrote during the night. Large parts are probably wrong because of that flip, but I'm posting them anyways.

Spoiler: My Catchup

Can't you just look at it as though it's 4 Evil - 8 Good? 2 Mafia, 2 Werewolves, and 8 Townsmen sheep? I think it'd be a lot easier to recognize that way, wouldn't it?

3 Mafia??? Oh wow. So does that mean if Town loses two people, Mafia and Werewolves win? Or are Mafia and Werewolves going against each other too? If so, why exactly would make Ly-Lo? Sorry, I'm a little more new to this style.

Yeah I think I've got it now Caboose. I just made the mistake not looking this up. Like I didn't realize that nobody has a kill either!

Too authentic sounding to me. neil is probably town.

Someone's eager to lay down a vote before the Mod officially starts the game ...

Someone's eager to imply scum motivations where there is none.

first thing I'd do as mafia would be to get the knowledge of my own faction wrong

also, I remember you requesting in the open queue to be in a killing faction. That's evidence for both mafioso and werewolf and pretty good so far considering we haven't officially started yet

Scummy.

@MoI - And what was it?

So you think the best move for Neil (8 months on MS) in an Open game is to specifically pretend he doesn’t understand the roles as a Gambit. When the result is you immediately jumping on him that exact thing.

This is a good point.

@Twistedspoon - What gives you the impression that this is a scum gambit instead of a mistake due to inexperience?

This is scummy. The point has already been made (by MOI) and it doesn't really need expanding, but Wickedestjr feels the need to get in on it himself. The question is ridiculous and pointless. Wickedestjr is trying to drive a mislynch. Also the question to MOI was completely pointless too.

Vote: Empking Bandwagon gogogo...

@MoI - I assumed that was the point of the comment, but I asked in case you actually found Caboose suspicious and wanted to avoid telling us that. Do you suspect Twistedspoon at all?

Keep on scumming it up.

I hate you all for making me come back to a topic with 52 posts in it already.

Vote: Wicked

- DIE SCUM DIE

@HezLucky: Had you already read these 52 posts when you made this post? Was the vote on Wicked for activity in the game, or an RVS vote?

Neil continues to make town posts.

Everyone: What alignment is of afraid 1 (one) vote that they wagon the largest wagon and try and discredit the person voting them?

1. Can you demonstrate with quotes where Neil shows ‘fear’ of your vote?
2. Are you attempting to say that his posting of your style of play is discrediting? I find it a rather accurate portrayal of your playstyle. He doesn’t say it makes you scum, BTW. He said that pressuring you to provide more than unsupported votes and throw-away one liners is a good plan. And it seems to be working.
3. Please identify what you case on Neil is.

++

1. His vote and his discrediting of me have only one motive I can think of.
2. When did I ever said it wasn't the truth? If I started saying "Don't listen to Magna he has an 80% scum win rate and has very low town rate" would you just say "That's not discrediting that'sd the truth!"
2b. "He doesn’t say it makes you scum, BTW." This is an absurd misrepresentation of the point.
3. His posting comes from a scum mindset and only a scum mindset. Plus there's your post I'm quoting that maskes you look like buddies.

Complete mularkey. Keep scumming it up Empking.

Curious coincidence that your posting is a mixture of defending neil and attacking neil's attacker. Wierd.

Very typical soft attack. I notice you go out of your way to avoid directly saying I am scummy. Instead you use loaded words like ‘curious’ and ‘weird’.

Unwilling to commit to outright saying I am scum with him?

Also you seem to be saying that I only have interest in you due to this exchange. Given I was the first vote (and a serious one at that) for you that’s hardly the case.

I like where my vote is at.

I'm with MOI on this one.

What a ridiculous strawman. (Oh no! Wiki tell!)

Unvote

Vote: MOI

- The mixture of opaque defending and chainsaw defences, lying (On ho another wikitell!) and strawmanning.

Wow.

I could keep quoting these three over and over, but the gist is in this argument, neil and MOI look town and Empking looks scum.

Vote Empking

It doesn't seem like he will be a help to the towns much... and since he already has people piling votes on him, he could of done something scummy so far. I haven't read much yet since mostly it's just side conversations between 2 people, but I will be playing more competitively as we go along.

o.O

Overall leaning town on Neil, Neil vs Empking seems TvT.

Regfan: What about the arguing was TvT? Why did you say you were overall leaning town on Neil, say nothing about "overall" on Empking, and then call it TvT?

Vote Empking
It doesn't seem like he will be a help to the towns much... and since he already has people piling votes on him, he could of done something scummy so far.

This is easily the dumbest thing I've read so far. I will Unvote, Vote: DeityKabuto

and seriously what is with the activity in this game? Spam walls encourage lurking. It's damn near impossible to keep up.

HezLucky is scummy as hell. No mention AT ALL about the massive pages long MOI/neil/Empking thing. This reads like a deflection to me. So does Regfan's vote on Twisted two posts before this.

I'm skimming those walls, just so you guys know.

VOTE: DeityKabuto

Came off as the worst by a LOT in that exchange.

Same as HezLucky.

Oops, forgot about the game. Dammit.

Neil's been posting an awful lot. Empking's been posting an awful lot. I don't think they're both Town (I mean... So much interaction between scum is ridiculous). Neil: What do you really think of Empking? I don't really see the massivest case against either of you, and I can't lean either way just yet. I'm inclined to say Empking, but that's probably because of the votes on him. Then I feel like saying you, but can't find heeeeaaaaps of scumminess.

I'm just trying to get a read of your thoughts of your interactions with Empking.


Now, I know it's page 6, but I haven't really posted yet... What do we think of the MafiaSheep? It's not like they can kill us... But it's hard to differentiate between Werewolf-tell and Mafia-tell. I think we should only kill Mafia if we don't have a Werewolf in hand.

Except they still wanna kill us. Hmm... Ack, I don't know. What do you guys think?

I don't like this "only kill mafia if we don't have a werewolf" buisness, but at least cjdrum comments on the critical conversation up to this point, not like the last two jokers. Kinda null-ish for me here.

TwistedSpoons vote here screams over-eager opportunistic mafia.

I suspect Twistedspoon as well, but how was his vote over-eager and opportunistic?
**SNIP**

Vote: Twistedspoon

I find him the most suspicious for three reasons:

1.) He expressed interest in a neil RVS bandwagon in the pre-game, but when the game began he random voted HezLucky instead.
2.) Posts 7 and 8 in his iso are both fluff and are good examples of IIoA.
3.) His last post has ignored the people voting him.

So you agree with the wagon, and vote it but at the same time you attack others reasons for voting the wagon? And then the reasons you give for voting it aren't even all that stellar? Scummy as hell. Most likely distancing from Regfan.

Okay guys, I hate spam walls to death and will be weary of joining games in the future with these players. Nevertheless, here's what I picked up upon a thorough reread of the earlier parts of the game: [[Disclaimer: I have only read the first three pages thoroughly, the rest has been largely skimmed at best. Thanks for the spam wall guys]]

- Something about MAGNA OF ILLUSION's post #8 makes me really uncomfortable. I'm not sure what.
- I am familiar with Empking's style. I will not oppose pressure on Empking in future games because this
is far more activity than I am used to seeing out of him. So good work, everyone. (Although I am in the
"Empking is not a good day one policy lynch" meta, though I will happily subscribe to the "Empking is a
good day one policy pressure" meta)
- Twistedspoon's early posts are HEAVILY WIFOM. I'm not sure what my stance on WIFOM as a scum tell is,
but I certainly won't lynch based just on that.
- Neil wants to essentially policy lynch Empking. [[NB: point below. I have the sneaking feeling Neil would be happy with a Day 1 Empking lynch regardless of role, though]]

Those were some of my thoughts as I was reading the game. Then I came across:

- Post #66/#67 - Magna's post explaining why Neil is putting pressure on Empking, which is exactly what
I thought of BEFORE I read this post and makes complete sense, is something that doesn't make sense to
Empking? WTF? His response is highly abnormal. He's arguing it as if he disagrees. 2b is NOT an absurd
misrepresentation, as Empking calls it, but a highly relevant point. If I've learned one
thing about Empking on this site it is that I tend to agree with him, so his response is setting off
a huge alarm in my head.

Unvote, Vote: Empking

That's five.

Things I don't like about this post:

1) Complains about not liking walls.
2) Says he is happy that people have prodded Empking into more activity, and will do so in future games. Nevermind the fact that this has produced a number of massive walls from Empking.
3) Attempt to smear MOI with no solid explanation. Something "makes me uncomfortable" really bugs me. Note for possible MOI-distancing if either flips scum.
4) Says neil wants to policy lynch Empking. I don't see this.
5) Despite previous "something off" about MOI, suddenly agrees whole heartedly with him and votes Empking.

Things I like about this post:

1) Votes Empking.

Regfan's next post is more posting that reads like mislynch hunting to me. neil is obviously saying/doing some newbie things, and Regfan is happy to push those things as scummy.

HezLucky - Can you attempt to explain what you mean by "Makes me feel uncomfortable", which part of MoI's #8 and Empkings #6 seem off?

Town point for Regfan.

Getting rid of the Werewolfs is more important than Mafia since Mafia have their only win condition like a third party. To sum it all up, either you or Niel could be werewolf.

Wow... either of them could be a werewolf. That is an awesome answer to some decent questioning. You should be proud for coming to this conclusion.

- at this point I am so frustrated at Empking I would be happy to policy lynch him regardless of alignment.

*Looks up at his earlier quote where he said he didn't like that neil was policy lynching...*

LOL.

That whole post was pretty much crap. Also of note is that like 4 or 5 people all had problems with this post, yet no one voted you. Granted some were voting Empking, but not all of them. The most egregious are: Sloth's 280, DK's 281, and to a lesser extent zMuffinMan's 279. MOI took exception to it too, but he was pushing Empking so hard that it's not as glaring a problem for me.

I'm still here. I've realized with a week left, the DK wagon isn't going to go anywhere and Empking has become basically our only feasible lynch.

Which I'm fine with.

UNVOTE: DK
VOTE: Empking

Sloth is freaking scum people. It is known.

I'm the Seer. As MOI said my wagon is populated by scum. Can we lynch neil now?

Ya, I didn't see that claim coming a mile away. This is so incredibly bogus its not even funny.

Out of the following, I can really only see Hezlucky, and DeityKabuto as scummy in this scenario. CJ seems to just be absent from the game, with no real imput, and Sloth had very valid reason for his vote. I don't like the WIFOM scenario HezLucky created with his unvote, and I've understood that HezLucky has seem to had little to no pressure this day, skating by with a "get out of jail free" pass and nobody's really giving him any pressure. So with that said:

VOTE: HezLucky

NEIL IS TOWN. TAKE IT TO THE BANK FOLKS.

Neil's vote for HezLucky looks bad.

So massively disagree.

I hate the fact that nobody wants Empking lynched anymore, but since Twistedspoon is at L-1, I guess this is what the town wants.

Unvote
Vote TwistedSpoon

This should at least provide us with more information which ever way he flips.

Distancing from his hammer as soon as he casts it. BAD BAD BAD.

TOWN
neil1113
MagnaofIllusion
zMuffinMan
cjdrum
Regfan
Wickedestjr
DeityKabuto
Sloth
HezLucky
SCUM

Vote: HezLucky

[LimMePls]

What the frakking frak was the frakking spam wall for, then?

Bloody hell. Bloo-dy hell.

So with the Seer gone, we've only got VTs against the Wolves

and

Mafia?
Bloody hell. Gonna have to do some ISOing.

Fake reaction is fake. Deliver ISOs.

[MagnaofIllusion]

MOD – I’ll be V/LA from today at 4pm EST til Monday morning for my usual weekend family duties.

I’ll be using what time I have to re-read the thread via cell because Empking’s flip as the actual Seer was unexpected to me. I need to re-assess my reads.

--

What the frakking frak was the frakking spam wall for, then?

Bloody hell. Bloo-dy hell.

So with the Seer gone, we've only got VTs against the Wolves and Mafia?
Bloody hell. Gonna have to do some ISOing.

This screams a variation on the classic “Oh, the Doc is dead, things are going to be hard” slip. See DarlaBlueEyes in THIS GAME as the most recent example I have.

[DeityKabuto]

Well, we just lost our Seer, and I can't get anything from Empking's death. It was pretty obvious that everyone wanted him dead, but we can get something from the Townie we lynched, why the hell did you guys want TwistedSpoon dead anyways? I wanted Empking dead, he turned Pro-townie, but he wasn't helping much of the town at all, imho TwistedSpoon looked very innocent. I will be looking into who started TwistedSpoon's case and cast my vote on them.

[neil1113]

Well, we just lost our Seer, and I can't get anything from Empking's death. It was pretty obvious that everyone wanted him dead, but we can get something from the Townie we lynched, why the hell did you guys want TwistedSpoon dead anyways? I wanted Empking dead,

he turned Pro-townie, but he wasn't helping much of the town at all,

imho TwistedSpoon looked very innocent. I will be looking into who started TwistedSpoon's case and cast my vote on them.

How do you turn pro-town, but not be any help to town? This post looks absolutely like a fluff post with a forced reaction.

I can't believe Emp was actually the Seer, I have some suspicions as to who the Werewolves are while the game was at Night Phase. I speculate they would be Werewolves because of the blatant connection between the two of them, however they very well could have a Mafia partner that's just being silent or deliberately distant. But before I post anything specific, I believe my suspicions will be either confirmed or denied when one of the two people posts. Until that time, I'll wait to post them.

[DeityKabuto]

Well, we just lost our Seer, and I can't get anything from Empking's death. It was pretty obvious that everyone wanted him dead, but we can get something from the Townie we lynched, why the hell did you guys want TwistedSpoon dead anyways? I wanted Empking dead,

he turned Pro-townie, but he wasn't helping much of the town at all,

imho TwistedSpoon looked very innocent. I will be looking into who started TwistedSpoon's case and cast my vote on them.

How do you turn pro-town, but not be any help to town? This post looks absolutely like a fluff post with a forced reaction.

I can't believe Emp was actually the Seer, I have some suspicions as to who the Werewolves are while the game was at Night Phase. I speculate they would be Werewolves because of the blatant connection between the two of them, however they very well could have a Mafia partner that's just being silent or deliberately distant. But before I post anything specific, I believe my suspicions will be either confirmed or denied when one of the two people posts. Until that time, I'll wait to post them.

I mean he kept on making things look worse for himself, but the constant "unneeded" comments and quotes and stuff. It was annoying but at the same time made him seem scummish. Right now, the best thing is too evaluate everything that happened in Day 1 and search for clues of potential people who may be "scummy". Also the people who started the lynch on that innocent townie, who even I had said before appeared a bit innocent.

[Sloth]

Catching up now.

[zMuffinMan]

I think HezLucky+Wicked are likely scum of the same faction.

I'll explain this in detail in the next few hours. Got dinner soon, and just can't be bothered making a case right now.

[Duplicity]

Removed by player request.

[Regfan]

Mod, can you delete/clear the previous post, sorry posted on the wrong account.

For ISO purposes:

Werewolves, currently it's 5 v 3 v 2. If we mslynch today, and a VT dies tonight a situation arises where it's almost impossible for you to win therefore it's in your best interests to scumhunt with us today as well as aim for scum if we msylnch.

Regfan: What about the arguing was TvT? Why did you say you were overall leaning town on Neil, say nothing about "overall" on Empking, and then call it TvT?

My town-read on Empking at that point was mostly due to his posts attracting attention towards himself, something that mafia don't benefit from whatsoever, however stating it then would lead towards him changing his natural playstyle making him harder to read him. I was hoping merely stating that I believed it was T v T would reduce the argument they were having so other players could be assesed.

--
I can agree with majority of your catch-up post LMP however I don't understand the strength of your Neil-Town read, I shared it intially however as the day progressed the quality of his posts reduced significantly. I don't see DK's hammer as a scum-tell at all, though that's because of [Redacted].

--
Majority of my reads haven't changed given the two flips though I'm going to need to read peoples reactions and actions during the MoI vs Empking debate. I'm intersted in hearing zMuffins thoughts on a HezLucky+Wicked pairing because I don't see it at all.

--
Sloth still seems to be attempting to dodge questions that were directed towards him, I'll restate them for convienances sake:
1. If you believe DK is noobscum why haven't you stated or attempted to push for his lynch?
2. If you had to name two people you would outright refuse to lynch at the moment who would they be and why?

--
That reaction to the death completly contradicts your play throughout yesterday especially given your willingness to lynch a seer claim.

Vote: Cjdrum

[DeityKabuto]

Vote
Wickedestjr

From reading the past few pages, Wickedestjr was the main driver of TwistedSpoon's case, explain yourself, please. You didn't have "strong" evidence for actually wanting him lynched.

[zMuffinMan]

@Regfan,

Werewolves, currently it's 5 v 3 v 2. If we mslynch today, and a VT dies tonight a situation arises where it's almost impossible for you to win therefore it's in your best interests to scumhunt with us today as well as aim for scum if we msylnch.

That's an interesting statement, and I'm not actually sure what you're suggesting here (since it really doesn't make sense), or why you made this statement.

---

Re: case on Hez+Wicked, I'll have to get around to it tomorrow.

A brief summary of it is that I think HezLucky is scummy due to voting patterns and the content of the PBPA in his wall posts and there are a few connections between Hez+Wicked that make sense (e.g. Hez's RVS vote on Wicked and Wicked's reasons for thinking neil is scum, which were based on neil attacking Hez).

I'll most likely vote Hez after I write this up, too.

[Regfan]

That's an interesting statement, and I'm not actually sure what you're suggesting here (since it really doesn't make sense), or why you made this statement.

Lets go through the scenario, Currently there's 5 VT's, 3 Mafia and 2 Werewolves alive.
- If a VT gets lynched it becomes 4 VT's, 3 Mafia and 2 Werewolves alive.
- If a VT gets shot tonight it bcomes 3 VT's, 3 Mafia and 2 Werewolves alive.

This leads tommorow to having three possible scenarios:

Scenario 1: Vanilla Townie gets lynched.

This leaves 2 Vanilla Townies, 3 Scum, 2 Werewolves.
In this position if the werewolves don't nightkill mafia the games over with the mafia winning.

Scenario 2: Werewolf gets lynched.

This leaves 3 Vanilla Townies, 3 Scum, 1 Werewolves.
In this position if werewolves don't nightkill mafia the games over with the mafia winning.

Scenario 3: Scum gets lynched.

This leaves 2 Vanilla Townies, 2 Scum, 2 Werewolves.
In this position if they kill a VT, it becomes impossible for town to win, meaning the final VT picks which allignment wins, something werewolves should want to avoid.

[zMuffinMan]

In neither of the first two scenarios do mafia automatically win because it would take 4 to lynch and they wouldn't have a majority (3 v 2+1 is not a majority and neither the werewolf team or town team is going to hand over the game tot he mafia team at that point, I'd assume), and the third scenario isn't exactly accurate either.

First priority today is lynching scum of any faction, and both scum factions should have an interest in doing this, so I'm really interested in why you made this statement in the first place. Also interesting to note that you switched the term "mafia" with "scum" midway.

[neil1113]

That's an interesting statement, and I'm not actually sure what you're suggesting here (since it really doesn't make sense), or why you made this statement.

Lets go through the scenario, Currently there's 5 VT's, 3 Mafia and 2 Werewolves alive.
- If a VT gets lynched it becomes 4 VT's, 3 Mafia and 2 Werewolves alive.
- If a VT gets shot tonight it bcomes 3 VT's, 3 Mafia and 2 Werewolves alive.

This leads tommorow to having three possible scenarios:

Scenario 1: Vanilla Townie gets lynched.

This leaves 2 Vanilla Townies, 3 Scum, 2 Werewolves.
In this position if the werewolves don't nightkill mafia the games over with the mafia winning.

Scenario 2: Werewolf gets lynched.

This leaves 3 Vanilla Townies, 3 Scum, 1 Werewolves.
In this position if werewolves don't nightkill mafia the games over with the mafia winning.

Scenario 3: Scum gets lynched.

This leaves 2 Vanilla Townies, 2 Scum, 2 Werewolves.
In this position if they kill a VT, it becomes impossible for town to win, meaning the final VT picks which allignment wins, something werewolves should want to avoid.

So according to your information speculations, it's nearly impossible to gain a town victory in this set-up? Or am I misreading this?