Mini 171: No Exit Mafia -- Game Over!

Tam · Post Post #400 (ISO) » Fri May 13, 2005 11:04 am

Hmmmm, I forgot to ask. Drummer, would you please recap for me what it is that makes you think it's Candice? I want to look at that as well, but don't remember where it is you went over that exactly. You seem to have more of a reason than Candice's 'he isn't Tam or MMCL' reason for voting you, so I'm curious.

Yaw · Post Post #401 (ISO) » Fri May 13, 2005 2:19 pm

Vote Count:

Candice (1): Drummer
Drummer (1): Candice

Not Voting: MMCL, Tam

Drummer · Post Post #402 (ISO) » Sat May 14, 2005 5:45 pm

Candice: I completely understand your vote on me.

Tam: The real reason that I flipped out was because I had just finished a post where I was wondering why Dodgy thought I was anxious for a lynch when I had only been thinking over strategies. Then Vraak blindly followed him to divert attention or something and it sparked. Made me lose my temper a little, I know I shouldn't have. Made me look very suspicious.

And yeah, I know there ought to be more to it than that I don't suspect the other players. It's sort of a hunch thing. Something about posting habits maybe? For some reason I find it hard to pin down my suspicions of other people sometimes. I will review the thread and find where it was that I found myself seriously wondering about her.

Candice · Post Post #403 (ISO) » Mon May 16, 2005 10:45 am

I'm just waitin' on Drummer now. :p

Tam · Post Post #404 (ISO) » Mon May 16, 2005 5:06 pm

Me too.

Drummer, and MMCL. I'm starting to get a bad feeling in the pit of my stomach. Dodgy died pointing the finger at MMCL and saying that he'd gotten us onto his lynch strategy and then left, laying low until it was over, and I have to say, it looks more and more that way to me.

That being said, I've pretty much made up my mind on my vote, but I want to hear from both of them first. It's made up, but it could change based on their posts. (Plus without MMCL's vote there's no lynch anyhow.)

MMCL · Post Post #405 (ISO) » Tue May 17, 2005 12:42 am

I'm not laying low... I have had work and life to contend with. As I said before while work pays the bills that takes priority. Sorry.
It's ironic that Dodgy is the one that points out my absence yet forgets to mention that I asked him to lend me a travel bag (in real life) the very day before he posts - hence his "oh he had to go away - I forgot.." thing. I was unable to access scum from where I was staying - and had to log onto AIM via a friends pc even to get a message to Yaw to confirm I would be away. I was given just a few hours notice that I would have to catch the flight, a full day and a half early.

Hell - if you don't believe me I will give you the details of the hotel I stayed at in Amsterdam and you can ring up and confirm I did stay there!

I _have_ been absent but if that makes me scummy then I am confused because I have explained my absence - and even Yaw posted to that effect. Anyways - Im off sick today, with a stinking cold (and a huge cold sore stuck on my lip like a rice krispie!) and posting here while I should be in bed - I guess it's my bodies way of saying I've been working too hard....!

Check the time of this post as proof that Im not at work.

I have re-read things now and to be honest I am thoroughly confused but there is one thing you are all forgetting. We don't know that even Dodgy or Vraak were innocent. We won't find that out til we lynch one more - and thus, we could be arguing over innocents now.

I would not have condoned the Dodgy lynch at all - and I am surprised that you guys actually lynched him - he finished himself off in the end to prove a point. And that is something I actually respect - and was quite noble too. My apologiges (and a chocolate cake) will go to Dodgy as I am convinced now I was completely wrong about him.

Having read his last few days it was so clear that he was nothing but a _very confused_ townie that was bored to hell (pun intended).
Vraak likewise, willingly gave his life... indicating that we should look to the town leader Tam.

I am trying to work out currently what Dodgy's point was when he suggested I was scum - because to me it makes no sense that Dodgy would suggest I am lying low and thus scum

but know that I was in Amsterdam and couldn't post

.

It just doesn't fit together...

What worries me more is that Tam is now using that as a reason to doubt me and that makes me doubt her - Ironic isn't it, that in the closing part of the game, the two people most thought were innocent now turn on each other and express doubts!

Which makes me think again - I openly expressed that I thought that Tam was innocent, yet I don't recall (and I could be wrong) that Tam

actually

said the same about me. But I digress...

So who to vote for? I am not sure yet. Drummer seems scummier than Candice - yet I can't forget his initial Peacebringer vote - which makes me look to Candice, I guess.
Anyway I would say that we should clear things up first, and not vote for anyone until the remaining three (should we not have caught scum already) are solid on who they will vote for - scum will try all they can if we don't get it right. I'm guessing scum would want a quick lynch because discussion is counter-intuitive to any strategy they would use - and so let's discuss....

To that effect, I want to ask a few questions:

Tam - What do you say against the charge made by Vraak and others previously concerning you leading/manipulating the town?

Candice - you said that you think that Tam and Me are innocent and that was the reason for your vote on Drummer. Does the fact that Drummer came right out and voted PB not hold any sway?

Drummer - You say that you are going on hunches and posting habits - can you clarify in any way?

MMCL · Post Post #406 (ISO) » Tue May 17, 2005 12:55 am

I'm not laying low... I have had work and life to contend with. As I said before while work pays the bills that takes priority. Sorry.
It's ironic that Dodgy is the one that points out my absence yet forgets to mention that I asked him to lend me a travel bag (in real life) the very day before he posts - hence his "oh he had to go away - I forgot.." thing. I was unable to access scum from where I was staying - and had to log onto AIM via a friends pc even to get a message to Yaw to confirm I would be away. I was given just a few hours notice that I would have to catch the flight, a full day and a half early.

Hell - if you don't believe me I will give you the details of the hotel I stayed at in Amsterdam and you can ring up and confirm I did stay there!

I _have_ been absent but if that makes me scummy then I am confused because I have explained my absence - and even Yaw posted to that effect. Anyways - Im off sick today, with a stinking cold (and a huge cold sore stuck on my lip like a rice krispie!) and posting here while I should be in bed - I guess it's my bodies way of saying I've been working too hard....!

Check the time of this post as proof that Im not at work.

I have re-read things now and to be honest I am thoroughly confused but there is one thing you are all forgetting. We don't know that even Dodgy or Vraak were innocent. We won't find that out til we lynch one more - and thus, we could be arguing over innocents now.

I would not have condoned the Dodgy lynch at all - and I am surprised that you guys actually lynched him - he finished himself off in the end to prove a point. And that is something I actually respect - and was quite noble too. My apologiges (and a chocolate cake) will go to Dodgy as I am convinced now I was completely wrong about him.

Having read his last few days it was so clear that he was nothing but a _very confused_ townie that was bored to hell (pun intended).
Vraak likewise, willingly gave his life... indicating that we should look to the town leader Tam.

I am trying to work out currently what Dodgy's point was when he suggested I was scum - because to me it makes no sense that Dodgy would suggest I am lying low and thus scum

but know that I was in Amsterdam and couldn't post

.

It just doesn't fit together...

What worries me more is that Tam is now using that as a reason to doubt me and that makes me doubt her - Ironic isn't it, that in the closing part of the game, the two people most thought were innocent now turn on each other and express doubts!

Which makes me think again - I openly expressed that I thought that Tam was innocent, yet I don't recall (and I could be wrong) that Tam

actually

said the same about me. But I digress...

So who to vote for? I am not sure yet. Drummer seems scummier than Candice - yet I can't forget his initial Peacebringer vote - which makes me look to Candice, I guess.
Anyway I would say that we should clear things up first, and not vote for anyone until the remaining three (should we not have caught scum already) are solid on who they will vote for - scum will try all they can if we don't get it right. I'm guessing scum would want a quick lynch because discussion is counter-intuitive to any strategy they would use - and so let's discuss....

To that effect, I want to ask a few questions:

Tam - What do you say against the charge made by Vraak and others previously concerning you leading/manipulating the town?

Candice - you said that you think that Tam and Me are innocent and that was the reason for your vote on Drummer. Does the fact that Drummer came right out and voted PB not hold any sway?

Drummer - You say that you are going on hunches and posting habits - can you clarify in any way?

Tam · Post Post #407 (ISO) » Tue May 17, 2005 4:00 am

I don't doubt your trip, MMCL. And yes, I have said quite a few times in the past that I trusted you and you alone in this game. I guess the Dodgy thing really got to me because he was your buddy, spent the night with you, etc. and yet he kept saying you were suspicious, and then you keep disappearing until someone calls for you, at which point you show up rather quickly and post. (That's the part that got to me more than anything--it had me wondering if you weren't scum watching the thread.)

But, more than anything I just wanted you to bloody post and tell me your thoughts. If you're the scum, honestly, you did such a great job of feigning innocence that it wouldn't upset me to lose to you at all.

Now, yes, Vraak and Stewie both kept on about me leading the town. What do I have to say about that? Not much. You're leading the town just as much as me, only mine is more clear because I'm here posting more. And yes, I purposely lead the town at the beginning, and had good reason, which the town passed right over. Stewie caught my attention quick because of the way he disappeared for the last part of that lynch, the info lynch, where I'd asked to be sacrificed

because I'd been leading the town and others gave opinions of me, etc.

and then reappeared at daybreak throwing his vote on me. That, to me, was damned suspect, since by then we'd have to wait 2 more lynches to see my innocence and I don't think it'd have the same effect if people were conscious of the plan. So...yes, I've lead the town, but at this point, who else will?

So no, I don't have much to say about that that I haven't already gone over a few times.

Now, now that I have you back again-

I think we should lynch Drummer. Candice made her vote decision purely based on the process of elimination. Drummer clearly stated that he is "still pretty sure she is the mafia" and voted Candice. That sounded like a reason somewhere, and I couldn't recall what that reasoning was exactly, so asked for him to elaborate. His response confused me.

Drummer wrote:And yeah, I know there ought to be more to it than that I don't suspect the other players. It's sort of a hunch thing. Something about posting habits maybe? For some reason I find it hard to pin down my suspicions of other people sometimes. I will review the thread and find where it was that I found myself seriously wondering about her.

To me that seems like he backed off from saying he had actual suspicion, and is trying to go more along the lines of Candice's vote now. (barring him actually coming forward with his suspicions, which we're all waiting for.)

Also the thing with Vraak was a little odd. If you recall, I was dead sure about Vraak (until after this point when he started acting so innocent) but when they had their little episode it really threw me. Drummer really looked odd in that, and it's been bugging me ever since. Especially since Vraak posted his innocence in death and you guys tend to think he wouldn't lie about it after the fact. (I don't know him at all so...)

Thoughts, people?

MMCL · Post Post #408 (ISO) » Tue May 17, 2005 5:06 am

This is exactly why I am confused....

If I was scum - and had so brilliantly convinced the town that I wasn't - I had gained a tremondous advantage. Would I let that advantage slip away by letting my winning momentum drop? I doubt it.

My level of commitment to this game hasn't faltered - I intend to be fully involved now I've got chance for a few days break. Please believe me, it's so frustrating that I am in doubt because of not being here - essentially situations beyond my control.

I am back, a little sick, but back.

I'm glad you responded the way you did Tam because it has made more and more definite about you. You are innocent. The fact that you were accused of leading but then offered yourself was a clear stroke of innocence in my book. Yes, you could have been scum with a double bluff but you seemed essentially honest with it all - there was not a hint of an alterior motive and the information regarding Stewie does look damning, even in hindsight.

Tam - I also understand your reason for prompting for a Drummer lynch. I too picked up on that odd explanation - which is why I questioned it in my previous post. I guess we will know more when Drummer comes back with something.

The Vraak innocence thing I am accepting until I know otherwise, just like the Dodgy innocence thing - except Dodgy finishing his own life off meant that he was either scum fed up with the whole thing, or innocent (I can't accept it being the former, now).

This leads me back to Candice and my confusion starts over - she thinks Tam and I are innocent, which is what I think. It's Candice or Drummer... I guess, it just has to be.

Drummer · Post Post #409 (ISO) » Tue May 17, 2005 5:59 am

Heh, I was waiting for somebody else to say something. I'm online almost every day, I might miss a day in the weekends though. Forgot all about how I was going to reread Candice.

I do not find MMCL's demanding job to be his fault or suspicious. Just his job. He has disappeared on trips several times before. Why is it suddenly suspicious?

Now--On to what I said I would verify earlier.(Seriously, if I said I was going to research it, then I never say anything, how is that backing away from the subject? Why would I deliberately make myself seem scummy? This is a suspicion-habit of many players that I don't really understand at all.) ANYWAY:

Hmm... A lot of her time seemed to be spent watching, reiterated other players' suspicions, asking for vote clarification... Most of the time she seems to be just " waitin' " around for somebody else to do something. In quotations because that's the way she keeps putting it.

...Further in I appear and vote PB. LOL, I should have noticed how calmly he accepted my vote on him. Should have tipped me off that he was trying to seem innocent. Anyway, Candice follows everyone else's lead and votes PB even though I think he was already lynched. Seems like an attempt to be in the town's best interests. She could safely do that if she knew Dodgy's identitiy, right?

After that she follows somebody else's suspicions and decides Vraak looks like a good choice. Then she decides to wait for somebody else to finish what they were saying or something.

Then comes the whole argument I had with Vraak. It got us nowhere. While it was happening, however, Candice tries to make me seem suspicious by twisting my posts a little. Maybe she just wasn't paying attention to the questions I had been asking Vraak, maybe she lied. Either way she pretended they weren't there or something. She starts getting a bit of an attitude with me, though I think most of my hostility had been directed at Vraak up to that point. Curious. She gets her knickers in a knot, then holds her "suspicions" on me throughout the rest of the game.

Later she had a gut feeling about Dodgy. She was suspicious of Vraak too. Her argument against me was that she was mad at me. Vraak and Dodgy seem to have been innocent and if I am lynched, I will be too. I want MMCL and Tam to remember that tomorrow if I die today. Candice was suspicious of three people and all three turned out innocent. Said she would eat a hat if MMCL and Tam turned out to be mafia. Convenient how she can knock off all these townies and never find a mafia member.

A little later on Candice "waits" some more for a response to Vraak's long post. I understand that she later claimed to have been watching reactions, but there has just been so much waiting going on here.

Today she votes me because the other players are ruled out. I vote her because I have suspicions. Her vote is understandable, as I called it, but I think mine ought to carry a little more weight. She was so adamant about her suspicions of me before, but now it's just because neither MMCL or Tam could

possibly

be scum.

Well, I think both Candice and I appear to be good choices right now. If we lynch Candice and she turns up innocent, I don't even know which of the either two it might be. If we lynch me today, I suggest we lynch Candice tomorrow.

Drummer · Post Post #410 (ISO) » Tue May 17, 2005 6:07 am

I wrote:...Further in I appear and vote PB. LOL, I should have noticed how calmly he accepted my vote on him. Should have tipped me off that he was trying to seem innocent. Anyway, Candice follows everyone else's lead and votes PB even though I think he was already lynched. Seems like an attempt to be in the town's best interests. She could safely do that if she knew Dodgy's identitiy, right?

I meant to say it would be safe if she knew PB's identity. Typo. Knew I should post that before she jumps on it.

MMCL · Post Post #411 (ISO) » Tue May 17, 2005 12:19 pm

Off to bed - waiting for Candice...

Tam · Post Post #412 (ISO) » Tue May 17, 2005 3:06 pm

Nighty night MMCL.

Get some rest, you sicko.

(hope you feel better, and lose the rice krispy; it's just not your style.)

*waits for Candice, too*

Candice · Post Post #413 (ISO) » Tue May 17, 2005 3:29 pm

This will be short, as I haven't been feeling well. I can give a rundown of what's going on if anyone doubts that.

MMCL: No, that he was the first vote on PB doesn't sway me. If I recall correctly, PB made a critical error, one that had him bagged almost right away. That was a typo in his role, if I recall correctly. What better way for Drummer to "prove" his innocence than to point it out and jump on him. Had I been scum and seen it (and I would not and did not see it- I'm a lousy proofreader) I would have jumped on it, too. That's my take on it.

I'll try to respond to Drummer's points one by one. Given my current condition, I will not be actually quoting things, I don't have the time or the energy to, but I don't want to hold up the game. Forgive me.

Re: "waiting"- that's my playing style. I'm a slow player. I like to wait and see what people's responses are. This is something that's consistent with almost all of my games, I feel if you were to look back on other games I was in, you'd see that I am VERY slow. I like discussion.

Re: My vote on PB. I knew he was lynched. I even added "for prosterity" or something like that to the vote. This was because I was a bit po'ed that the lynching vote was cast, I believe by Dodgy, without having heard from someone (I can't recall who it was at the time- hell, the vote might've come up while

I

was at work and I was pissy that I'd not been given a chance to weigh in. Because I'm narcisstic like that). All that was stated, in a nutshell, in the voting post.

Re: Vraak and Drummer's tiff.

Now here this. I did NOT get "my knickers in a knot." I issued, calmly, in my opinion, a question to you: What questions did you ask Vraak? I asked you to quote them, I believe, at one point, or restate your questions. You never did, unless I went selectively blind.

Quote the twisting I supposedly did. And, again, as it's a point of contention, quote your questions to Vraak.

I'll also note that after Drummer's "My point was-" post, I turned my attention back to Vraak. My suspicion was on Drummer for what I saw as histrionics. You might have been calm as day, Drummer, but you didn't appear so to me. Once you calmed down, I DID turn my suspicions away from you. In fact, I've made no qualms about saying that my vote on you has been an elimination one: My primary suspicions were Vraak and Dodgy, with you as the third candidate because I believe MMCL and Tam to be innocent and I know I am, and I don't vote people who I know are innocent.

This has NEVER been in question, and if you can quote me, AFTER my already stated suspicion occured, I will reiterate my offer to eat my hat.

If required/requested of me, a more thorough post with quotes will follow tomorrow night. As I said, I don't want to hold the game up, but simply don't have the energy for a full-out post. I'm sorry.

MMCL · Post Post #414 (ISO) » Tue May 17, 2005 9:52 pm

Candice does raise interesting points. Drummer can you counter these, specifically the twisting?

On a side note - I think I have had a moment of clarity...

Drummer · Post Post #415 (ISO) » Wed May 18, 2005 5:44 pm

Candice--The waiting thing is just something I noticed. I really don't have the time to read your other games.

You said "Re: Vraak and Drummer's tiff." I don't have the slightest clue what this means.

The knickers in a knot thing was just something I had to use. You accused me of being that way when you were acting EXACTLY the same. There was plenty of sarcasm evident in your post, whether you admit it or not.

The twisting I was talking about was mostly how you were saying I never asked questions. I already told you. Look at the page again, I have a problem with repeating myself.

I want to make sure that we don't start arguing with each other. We are all friends.

Now, I am a little confused by the way her post was constructed. I hope I countered these points to MMCL's satisfaction. Yeah, maybe "twisting" wasn't the best word for it. But, as I've said, whichever of us looks like the better choice...let 'em hang. In fact, I'm fairly certain that MMCL and Tam are innocent. So you can kill me now and get Candice tomorrow. Who knows, maybe we already won. That's the strat that I think is best right now. Everyone lynch me and then Candice if there is a tomorrow.

MMCL · Post Post #416 (ISO) » Thu May 19, 2005 10:46 am

OK - I have just about made my mind up; Tam are you in a similar position?

Tam · Post Post #417 (ISO) » Thu May 19, 2005 12:31 pm

Yep,

vote Drummer

*crosses her fingers*

Drummer · Post Post #418 (ISO) » Thu May 19, 2005 5:37 pm

Good. Remember Candice tomorrow.

MMCL · Post Post #419 (ISO) » Thu May 19, 2005 6:32 pm

Vote:Drummer

His lynch me and lynch Candice tomorrow routine is what made me think that he, and not Candice, is more likely to be scum - because he knew that I saw this action by Tam to be one of innocence.

If I am wrong, I am wrong...

Tam · Post Post #420 (ISO) » Fri May 20, 2005 1:00 am

I think Drummer's had quite a few inconsistencies lately and I feel somewhat confident in our decision.

This part especially floored me when I read it--

Drummer wrote:You said "Re: Vraak and Drummer's tiff." I don't have the slightest clue what this means.

I guess I just find that unbelievably hard to believe, which makes me think scum trying to cover and getting mixed up on what to cover for...or something, I dunno. It's just...off.

Yaw · Post Post #421 (ISO) » Fri May 20, 2005 9:35 am

Final Vote Count:

Drummer (3): Candice, Tam, MMCL
Candice (1): Drummer

Not Voting: Nobody

The bell is rung for the porter, who enters after a small wait. Drummer gathers his luggage and goes to wait outside while the porter addresses you.

"None of the last three you chose to send out were the last person you were looking for. So you have one last chance -- can you pick out the villain?"

Drummer, Townie, has been evicted Round 9.

The front post has been edited to include the reveals.

It is now Round 10.

With 3 left, it will take 2 votes to come to a decision.

Candice · Post Post #422 (ISO) » Fri May 20, 2005 10:23 am

I guess I'll be eating that hat. I honestly don't know which of you are scum, but I've no doubt there's no way I'm getting out of this alive. I will make one plea for town, though: I'M NOT SCUM. I'm just praying that the one of who who is town believes me.

Tam · Post Post #423 (ISO) » Fri May 20, 2005 2:16 pm

MMCL · Post Post #424 (ISO) » Fri May 20, 2005 7:11 pm

Holy Shit! I was sure it was drummer.... I just... HMmmm... Something tells me I need my spider sense improved. The only two people I was sure of in this game were Dodgy and then Drummer.
I think I may have misunderstood the dynamic here - I need to re-read. Candice - I like you a lot - but as you yourself stated, it isn't looking good for you, now. What do you have to say?