Mini 1207 - LIPD Mafia: Game Over!

[Riddick]

btw if there's a doc out there they should cc, i'll take a 1/1 trade any day.

fairly meh on the claim actually. just don't want day ending yet for super secret reasons.

[Science and Magic]

And, yes, we are, Diamond.

Effectively, we've had four roleclaims.
Three you can see. One implied from mine.

That's more town power than we should have. We have ten town players--40% of them being roles is too much when they're as strong as the ones claimed.

Diamond's claim makes no sense in the setup, and makes no sense with his play. His posts have a scum essence to them, and he has blatant scum links. He has inside knowledge. He can't hide it, despite trying. He already revealed that Slaxx and Magi-Science are town, he already revealed that Gorilla's his scumbuddy. He made himself too obvious, and is now paying the price--his team has lost. I'd rather have a perfect victory rather than a perfect-minus-day-one-victory.

science and magic: vt
mastin: miller
Riddick: night vig
Some other unnamed person because of the miller claim: cop

I think case based on possible game balance isn't the way to go. You just dont know for sure. You cant know. Just because its a mini-normal doesn't mean it has a newbie-esq setup.

You just cant know for sure

. I dont feel comfortable lynching a doc claim D1. The night will take care of him eventually. And if it doesn't well we can always go back to him. I feel your argument of wanting a mortal kombat flawless victory lacks common sense.

[Vifam]

I'm torn.


In one hand, I can't find myself believing this claim.


On the other, I don't want to a lynch a doc claim D1.


And most of the town seems to be pretty half and half about this too, great.

[Riddick]

i am not torn and know exactly what to do.

what do you wanna do hoppster and agm?

[mastin2]

btw if there's a doc out there they should cc, i'll take a 1/1 trade any day.

There's not. That's why it was a perfect scum fakeclaim--because them having a good idea what the setup was via the two and a half role claims so far in addition to their scum powers,
Mananged to deduce that having a doctor would be far too powerful against them.

And therefore, it's the perfect fakeclaim, because they know they won't get countered and people for some reason trust an obvious doctor fakeclaim more than common sense.


But if you really insist.
If you really, really don't want to lynch the claimed doc.

How about AGM or Gorilla, who are condemned by interactions with Diamond? Lynch them, back to back, and when Diamond the false doc is still alive day three with both his buddies dead, we can lynch him!

[Riddick]

doc isn't overpowered in this set-up, just an fyi, saying it is just makes you look silly, since mafia roleblocker is the standard anti town role and godfather's are fairly common [not that a cop is even guaranteed anyway]. it's

boring

with a possible cop though, and I don't think AV is boring ^_^

[Riddick]

idk where you get the idea i'm mad set against lynching him either, i think the claim is fake.

[Riddick]

butttttt i want things to happen before i decide if we lynch him today or not.

[mastin2]

It was more of a general "you" towards the town.

I want a scum lynch, today. Diamond's a scum lynch, but if despite my best efforts, people can't overcome the fact that Diamond's claim is an obvious fakeclaim, then I need to ensure their alternative lynch isn't a mislynch and is still a scum lynch.

[SGRaaize]

Science is scum, we're getting him

[mastin2]

Science is scum, we're getting him

And this is exactly what I was talking about. Magi-Science is not scum, and therefore is a mislynch.

If you want AGM or Gorilla lynched, I'll sheep that. But not a Magi-Science mislynch. Diamond's scumslips have revealed Magi-Science and Slaxx to both be town, and AGM+Gorilla to be scum.

Also, copping the doc fakeclaim is a waste. The cop should target AGM/Gorilla. (AGM if both are alive, whichever is alive if one of them is lynched.)

[Science and Magic]

Well who are we going to lynch today?

[Hoppster]

Okay, I see what you mean, but...

His self-meta was that he was careful with making a vote. He voted before the claim, not because of it. It was then a (plausible) mistake he made in reading the claim that meant he kept the vote.

Is that your only basis? Are you still happy with your conclusions from it?

What? Are you trying to say he didn't see the claim? I don't get it.

No, not at all.

I'm trying to say there's a difference between

placing

your vote on somebody and

keeping

your vote on somebody (ie. it was already there).


Diamond's claim is

plausible

(not in any way the "LOL OBVFAKECLAIM" Mastin seems to suggest), but I've actually no problems with lynching Diamond. Mastin makes a very compelling case.

On the other hand, Diamond's case on Mastin compels me to believe it's an instinctive scum-flail reaction case.

If Mastin2 sincerely thought that my claim was an obvious fakeclaim, why did he simply not argue that my claim was fake and explain? Instead he gave reasons as to why he thought the claim was fake and then frantically threw together a case arguing that I had not done anything pro-town.

Your case on Mastin is waaay more 'frantic'.

I don't see any issue with Mastin explaining why he thinks your claim is fake and then supporting it with a case on your general play.

Looking back, he never really made any coherent arguments against me, merely content to cite to my posts and shallowly state that they're scummy.

This seems like something you'd realise straight away in a case on you if you were town...

"Hey, I'm town (and I know I'm town), but I looked back and I

only just realised

that this case on me is BS!" - Nope.
"Errr, quick, let me look back and try and find something to discredit and undermine Mastin!" - Yep.


I disagree with SGR's "hey let's get the cop to investigate!", because:

1. The logical continuation of SGR's plan would be for a Cop to out themselves tomorrow if they had a guilty on Diamond.
   
2. Therefore, if we don't hear from anybody screaming that they had a guilty on Diamond, we would have to assume that the Cop had an innocent on Diamond.
   
3. This is not necessarily the case - the Cop could have been Roleblocked, so actually Diamond could still be scum, but we would have to clear him for at least that day (otherwise what's the point of the plan?)
   
4. To add insult to injury, in the case that the roleblock came from scum (and Diamond is scum), they now have:
1. Confirmation of who is Cop (through lack of a guilty)
   
2. A scumbuddy who is cleared(-ish)
5. When (as is likely in that situation) the Cop dies the next night, we're left not knowing whether the Diamond investigation was sucessful or not. We'd probably have to assume that Diamond was town - otherwise there's no point in carrying out the plan anyway.

The only way to remove those issues would be to get the Cop to out himself regardless of result, which is stupid.

It also seems like a huge waste of a Cop (because if he outs himself that's in all likelihood the only investigation he'll get) to tell us that Diamond is scum.


UNVOTE:
VOTE: Diamond

[Science and Magic]

fine.

look at me paw I'm a barnacle

unvote
vote: diamond

[Vifam]

VOTE: diamond


It's like w/e, if this is the plan you guys want, I really have no objections.

[Hoppster]

The two of you (SaM, Vifam) are perfectly happy with a Diamond lynch despite having reservations yourself simply because other people advocate it?

UNVOTE:

VOTE: diamond


It's like w/e, if this is the plan you guys want, I really have no objections.

I mean, what the hell is this?

You said you didn't want to lynch a Doctor claim:

I don't want to a lynch a doc claim D1.

Why has that changed?


SaM, do you believe the claim or not?

[SGRaaize]

Holy shit, Vifam, that was fucking scummy

Unvote

Vote: Vifam

[SGRaaize]

Science is scum, we're getting him

And this is exactly what I was talking about. Magi-Science is not scum, and therefore is a mislynch.

If you want AGM or Gorilla lynched, I'll sheep that. But not a Magi-Science mislynch. Diamond's scumslips have revealed Magi-Science and Slaxx to both be town, and AGM+Gorilla to be scum.

Also, copping the doc fakeclaim is a waste. The cop should target AGM/Gorilla. (AGM if both are alive, whichever is alive if one of them is lynched.)

I'm fine with a lynch on both Gorilla and AGM, if I had to pick between one of those, I'd prefer Gorilla.
Let's get Vifam, though

[charter]

1) Science is Obvious Scum, I can't be the only one thinking this, I seriously can't.

You're not, from my last post until this post of yours, that's the only thought I had about the game.

Doc claim is kind of weak, but between a VT and a Doc, I'd rather lynch the VT claim.

Cop definitely don't investigate Diamond. Diamond isn't going to live very long, regardless of alignment, so that's a total waste.

Vifam's vote is suspect, doesn't make much sense whether Diamond is scum or town.

[Vifam]

I said I was torn, I didn't say that I was against lynching Diamond completely.

At this point, I'm willing to go in any direction you guys see fit.

[Science and Magic]

The two of you (SaM, Vifam) are perfectly happy with a Diamond lynch despite having reservations yourself simply because other people advocate it?

I cant speak for him, but to answer your question:

Yup. I am willing to defer to people like mastin defer the wagon to them so "barnacle" on to them like I said. When you voted for Diamond, it was enough for me to. If thats the direction the town wants to go in I will help out.
(http://mafiascum.net/wiki/index.php?tit ... _Maneuvers)

SaM, do you believe the claim or not?

I cant really tell. Seems convenient but also I'm really scared of the doctor lynch. I defer to mastin.

[Vifam]

I cant speak for him, but to answer your question:

You can, you have the same mindset.

[Wickedestjr]

Hey guys. I'm back. Catching up now.

[Hinduragi]

Unvote

I want to think about this.

btw if there's a doc out there they should cc, i'll take a 1/1 trade any day.

fairly meh on the claim actually. just don't want day ending yet for super secret reasons.

Two words: HELL. NO.

[Hinduragi]

Diamond stays alive. Mafia are so fucked now that their kill will get blocked. The three votes back to Diamond were terrible. Hoppster looked like scum but obv-wasn't because of the unvote. SaM looked like bad town. Leaving us with Vifam-scum.

Vote: Vifam

We go with this. No matter the perspective on other people or LOLLINKED, here's scum. And when we get scum, we lynch them with fire.