PIRATES v. NINJAS! Game Over!

[Guardian]

I see Ultima being OMGUS and Flameaxe being obstructionist and swooping to someone's rescue again.

I agree with this -- UA's vote of cicero seemed like OMGUS without any real justification. UA isn't making much sense; I find it hard to take him seriously. Flameaxe is definitely not being helpful -- I

still

want TSQ to explain why we should accept this, however.

However, cicero:
-In Ork mafia, mass claim day 1 won the game -- so saying it is never a good idea day 1 is a stretch. However, I doubt it is the right play day 1 here.
-Every game, UA starts out with a self-vote. So finding him suspicious for that is not justifyable.

[UltimaAvalon]

I also still don't remotely understand the objection to what I had to say about mass-claim.

Regardless of the time of day or the circumstances surrounding it, massclaims are pro-town. Period.

The central point

Is the apex

which

good question

you seem to be

town

trying to derail

You shouldn't do that

is me

cicero

noting

small word

opportunistic

big word

bandwagoning without reason

Day 1

Followed by avoidance

What do you have to hide?

of

rhymes with dove

answering questions

questions end with question marks

[cicero]

Cool. Thanks Guardian. Appreciate the insights.

None of that changes my initial notice that UA's been jumping from wagon to wagon with no explanation and avoiding questions about it. And I add OMGUS to that as well now. Is this also his usual playstyle?

[Flameaxe]

I also still don't remotely understand the objection to what I had to say about mass-claim.

Regardless of the time of day or the circumstances surrounding it, massclaims are pro-town. Period.

The central point

Is the apex

which

good question

you seem to be

town

trying to derail

You shouldn't do that

is me

cicero

noting

small word

opportunistic

big word

bandwagoning without reason

Day 1

Followed by avoidance

What do you have to hide?

of

rhymes with dove

answering questions

questions end with question marks

Epic Posting.

[cicero]

If I call childish and hostile posting childish and hostile do I get replaced?

[Flameaxe]

No, you get replaced for taking the game too seriously.

[cicero]

No, you get replaced for taking the game too seriously.

Flame I'm not sitting here crying but you're being a pest. The only thing youve opened your mouth to do in this game is to poke me when I try to open new avenues of discussion. It's childish and hostile and brings an unnecessary shrillness to the game, so please stop.

Ultima, ignoring the cheeky form of your answer, I have to disagree. Mass-claiming is very often not pro-town. Are you now saying that your vote for Gorrad was based on your belief that believing a mass-claim could be anti-town is a scumtell or are you sticking with your "on day one I can bandwagon with impunity" position.

See the way I see it, those early bandwagons are good exactly for looking to see who hops on for bad reasons.

[UltimaAvalon]

blah blah block #2: Both

Blah Blah Block #3: Or who takes early Day 1 seriously

[cicero]

blah blah block #2: Both

Not a problem.

Blah Blah Block #3: Or who takes early Day 1 seriously

Townies.

[UltimaAvalon]

Blah Blah Block #3: Or who takes early Day 1 seriously

Townies.

Fail. If townies took the entire game seriously, then the random stage wouldn't exist at all ever.

In fact, it could be argued that it is, in fact, scum, who try and take the entire game seriously, as they over-analyze and nit-pick over the very minor of things, in hopes to find scummy behavoir where it, in fact, doesn't exist.

[cicero]

Blah Blah Block #3: Or who takes early Day 1 seriously

Townies.

Fail. If townies took the entire game seriously, then the random stage wouldn't exist at all ever.

In fact, it could be argued that it is, in fact, scum, who try and take the entire game seriously, as they over-analyze and nit-pick over the very minor of things, in hopes to find scummy behavoir where it, in fact, doesn't exist.

Not at all. I take the random stage very seriously in every game. So does everyone else. The first accusation always comes out of it. So do you. It's why you have a self-vote tradition. You have a meta excuse for your choice. It's the same as random dice rolling.

Sorry, I hate day ones enough without letting someone's first three votes have "get out of jail free" cards attached to them. That just prolongs the day and lets scum get away with anything they like.

[UltimaAvalon]

Blah Blah Block #3: Or who takes early Day 1 seriously

Townies.

Fail. If townies took the entire game seriously, then the random stage wouldn't exist at all ever.

In fact, it could be argued that it is, in fact, scum, who try and take the entire game seriously, as they over-analyze and nit-pick over the very minor of things, in hopes to find scummy behavoir where it, in fact, doesn't exist.

Not at all. I take the random stage very seriously in every game.

So does everyone else.

The first accusation always comes out of it. So do you. It's why you have a self-vote tradition. You have a meta excuse for your choice. It's the same as random dice rolling.

Sorry, I hate day ones enough without letting someone's first three votes have "get out of jail free" cards attached to them. That just prolongs the day and lets scum get away with anything they like.

No

[Flameaxe]

Flame I'm not sitting here crying but you're being a pest. The only thing youve opened your mouth to do in this game is to poke me when I try to open new avenues of discussion. It's childish and hostile and brings an unnecessary shrillness to the game, so please stop.

I'm sorry?

Also, did you miss my discussion with Guardian a few pages back? Yeah, way to completely lie. It's cool though.

[cicero]

Flame I'm not sitting here crying but you're being a pest. The only thing youve opened your mouth to do in this game is to poke me when I try to open new avenues of discussion. It's childish and hostile and brings an unnecessary shrillness to the game, so please stop.

I'm sorry?

Also, did you miss my discussion with Guardian a few pages back? Yeah, way to completely lie. It's cool though.

That would mean the discussion that stemmed directly from you interjecting between me and TSQ and then Guardian asking you a direct question about your whereabouts and motivations. I didn't miss it. It just doesnt change the facts.

[Flameaxe]

Well you mentioned me, did you NOT want me to interject? I believe I had every right.

[cicero]

Well you mentioned me, did you NOT want me to interject? I believe I had every right.

You did. I just wasnt lying when I said what I said.

[Flameaxe]

Well you mentioned me, did you NOT want me to interject? I believe I had every right.

You did. I just wasnt lying when I said what I said.

Except you were.

[Gorrad]

I also still don't remotely understand the objection to what I had to say about mass-claim.

Regardless of the time of day or the circumstances surrounding it, massclaims are pro-town. Period.

I very much disagree with this. I enjoy when the town has powerroles.

Also, while I must say Flameaxe is, as always, being very unhelpful, his posts make me laugh.

[cicero]

I also still don't remotely understand the objection to what I had to say about mass-claim.

Regardless of the time of day or the circumstances surrounding it, massclaims are pro-town. Period.

I very much disagree with this. I enjoy when the town has powerroles.

Also, while I must say Flameaxe is, as always, being very unhelpful, his posts make me laugh.

heh.

[Flameaxe]

I also still don't remotely understand the objection to what I had to say about mass-claim.

Regardless of the time of day or the circumstances surrounding it, massclaims are pro-town. Period.

I very much disagree with this. I enjoy when the town has powerroles.

Also, while I must say Flameaxe is, as always, being very unhelpful, his posts make me laugh.

A) STOP BEING BITTER THAT MASSCLAIM OWNED YOU IN 68.

B) You're welcome.

Cicero: But I'm hungry...

Notice how you got a frownie face? That could change you know.

[Gorrad]

Hey, we would have won that if you weren't Olidimarra's gift to Vigs, massclaim or not.

[Thestatusquo]

I also still don't remotely understand the objection to what I had to say about mass-claim.

Regardless of the time of day or the circumstances surrounding it, massclaims are pro-town. Period.

The central point

Is the apex

which

good question

you seem to be

town

trying to derail

You shouldn't do that

is me

cicero

noting

small word

opportunistic

big word

bandwagoning without reason

Day 1

Followed by avoidance

What do you have to hide?

of

rhymes with dove

answering questions

questions end with question marks

Probably actually the best post ever.

Also, I would argue that the point day one, as a pro town player is to get wagons and guage reactions. The way you do this is get pressure on other players and then see how they, and others, react to that pressure. I don't see anything I've done today that cant be explained under that framework of day 1 pro town behavior.

Also, sorry for my absence this weekend. I was at a debate tournament.

[Claus]

Mod, votecount?

[cicero]

Also, I would argue that the point day one, as a pro town player is to get wagons and guage reactions. The way you do this is get pressure on other players and then see how they, and others, react to that pressure. I don't see anything I've done today that cant be explained under that framework of day 1 pro town behavior.

Again, this misses the point. I agree with this completely but if it's to have any meaning, you are looking for disingenuous play. Just jumping on any wagon that seems to have momentum is exactly the kind of tell one
looks for in those wagons.

[Thesp]

Guardian, please explain the Thok<->Thesp link. Don't you think it's a little bit early to be drawing those kinds of conclusions?

This is wrong for several reasons.

Yeah? And I am suppose to take your word for that?

I don't care whether you do or not - in fact, you probably shouldn't. You should rethink whatever assumptions you have about this, and why at least one person thinks you're very wrong. Perhaps its a simple disagreement, but one of us is likely wrong or deceptive. (I suspect it's the former.)

This made like 1000 alarm bells ring in my head. My first game on this site had Thesp scum. Thesp scum refused to respond to stuff, said he'd do it later, and when he encountered something inconvenient would just be like "oh I'm not gonna explain this" -- "why is not explaining stuff bad"?

Have I ever done this as town, or is the exclusive domain of ThespScum?

Not that I've seen. Show?
Any response to anything else?
Or are the rest true?

I can dig through old games later, I don't feel like it right now. Generally, I feel at the very least that there are valid reasons for town to hide things (as I'm sure you do as well), and sometimes there are times when it's better not to explain things (or at the least that such explanations are unhelpful). If I showed you town instances of this, would you think this argument to be poor, then? Also, what do you mean by "Any response to anything else? Or are the rest true?"

I am beginning to get the suspicion that most of the scum are likely to be the people who haven't been part of the posting diarrhea, and are lurking.

Why do you think this?

I got the sneaking suspicion that the most vocal/central players were town, and that the scum didn't feel like getting in the limelight (and didn't need to).

Thesp:
Why is looking at the roles of dead players "scummy", but directing power roles isn't?

Because scum are more likely to pay careful attention to the roles of those who are died - they're not surprised by

who's

dead, but by what they are. Also, scum are slightly less likely to vaguely direct power roles in my experience, though I know you certainly can't take my word at that.

Based on you fossing me, and talking about the vig that is already dead, I am guessing that you are setting yourself up to claim that you hadn't looked at the day scene, and thus didn't know any of that..

1. Poisoning the well?
2. "the vig"? Why the defiite article?

If we want to use confirmation posts as scumtells, why hasn't anyone brought up mbf's post where he said he would enjoy playing with mbl?

I don't know what it indicates - it might indicate something, but it's beyond my grasp.

The only person here who's hunting skills I personally respect is Thesp, and he's playing horribly.

I appreciate the compliment, though I respectfully disagree with your assessment of my play in this game.

Finally had time for that reread, but it's actually something that happened after my last post that grabbed me.

Vote: Guardian

Apparently what was actually needed to convince him was a bunch of other people agreeing with me. Very sudden turn on the Iammars issue.

I like this post.

I feel very comfortable with a Thesp wagon, but as we draw closer I wonder about the wisdom of a Thesp lynch.

Are you saying you want me pressured, but not

really

pressured?

Also, does anybody actually feel TSQ's reaction to my vote on him was a protown reaction? He fairly clearly tried to frame my vote in convoluted ways in an attempt to discredit it.

I've not been comfortable with the hostility he's presented in this game, but while I think it's unhelpful, I don't think it helps indicate his alignment.

The fault here is that he assumed Iammars was scum when the same line of reasoning can be applied with a different starting point. Let me demonstrate:
1. I am in a game called pirates v. ninjas
2. In the game pirates oppose ninjas
3. I'm pirate town.
4. There is a scum opposing the town.
5. Ninjas must be scum.

See? The same line of reasoning applies just fine with other assumptions.

We fixed that potential argument by asking Iammars if he was a pirate. He said he was not. Try again.

I'm still contemplating whether or not it would be worthwhile to force pirates and ninjas to claim, understanding the caveats there. I am going to defer that contemplation for the moment, I suppose it's too gambity now.

I'm seriously disliking Mgm. I still seriously like Gorrad.

Blah Blah Block #3: Or who takes early Day 1 seriously

I think there's a argument to be made that Day 1 is the most important day in the game.

Vote: Gorrad.