Mini 578 - Mistery at Montescuro - Game Over!

[Macavenger]

Guardian, I've never found you very on the town side of neutral this game. That one specific post for some reason I can't explain looked very townish to me. That's an abberation compared to most of your posts this game, and shouldn't be mistaken for my overall stance on you. It's true that I swing back and forth on you a ton - I find you exceptionally difficult to read this game. Right now you're very slightly on the scum side of neutral, for the record, but it changes with almost every post you make.

[Coron]

and DBE's play reads newbie far more than scum.

it's looked newbie, but scum newbie more likely, and you also appear to ignore anything done my DBE's replacee, which I think is a foolish move, as much as it sucks to get attack because your replacee was scummy, it's how the game works.

I'd rather vote for Coron, MBF, EG, or Guardian than DBE currently, in roughly that order. None of them have wagons currently though, so they're more suspects for tomorrow for me at this point.

Why not throw Yos and pyrodwarf in there too! Then you could have all 7 people not voting for near as your top 7 suspects! My personal scum reads go something like this:
DBE=joudas= top suspects
macavenger(more of recently), and guardian are kind of the second tier, guardian seeming like a potential SK.
PD, Eg, would be next PD more likely to be mafia and EG more likely to be sk, but both are possible for each.
then probably Yos and Near Yos has just felt a slight bit off, and Near has been slightly scummy, but it seems the reactions to that have been too much like scum jumping on it, which could mean he's town or the SK, he'd be my third choice if we had an SK, but I doubt he's mafia, so...
SL, das, MBF, and Coron(obv) haven't really seemed like scum to me so far.

[DarlaBlueEyes]

What exactly is it that I have done thats been Scummy?

I think Coron and MBF seem to have an unnatural allegiance and desire to lynch myself..

[Coron]

What exactly is it that I have done thats been Scummy?

I agree there needs to be a bandwagon, and I must say Mike, your vote for me seems less than justified, but at the current time I have to ignore that and for the good of the town say,

unvote; vote: Near

So the justification for *your* vote is that there needs to be a bandwagon, solid if I do say so myself, and the emphasis on "for the good of the town" makes me think your a little overdoing your acting job here.

Here is an example for you not 20 posts ago, look back at reasons I found you and your replacee scummy, it's not as though I've said nothing about it.

Also your "self defense" as a reason for a vote was rather scummy too.

If you want me to reiterate I could but I feel no need to go to as much effort when, if you were curious you could look yourself.

[mikeburnfire]

Too many people want to lynch Near, IMO. Perhaps there's a good reason for it that I didn't pick up, being the replacement and all, but I think it's too strongly pushed, and a lot of people are just saying "Near is scum and I won't pursue anyone else until he's lynched".

[Macavenger]

and DBE's play reads newbie far more than scum.

it's looked newbie, but scum newbie more likely, and you also appear to ignore anything done my DBE's replacee, which I think is a foolish move, as much as it sucks to get attack because your replacee was scummy, it's how the game works.

I already had this argument with evilgorrilaz earlier. I fully agree that you should be suspecting replacements based on the replacee. I'm not holding that against DBE myself because I was never sold on Phox's scumminess while he was still playing. So I'm not ignoring anything Phox did, he just didn't set off any major alarm bells for me.

Why not throw Yos and pyrodwarf in there too! Then you could have all 7 people not voting for near as your top 7 suspects!

Because who's voting for Near has basically nothing to do with my suspicions, and those 2 seem fairly likely to be town to me.

[Claus]

Vote count!

Vote Count!

Near 5 - Singing Librarian, Macavenger, Joudas, Dasquian, DBE
DarlaBlueEyes 3 - Yosarian2, Coron, MBF
Macavenger 2 - Near, Guardian
Guardian 1 - PyroDwarf

Not voting:

EvilGorrilaz

With 12 people alive and kicking, it takes 7 votes to lynch!

[Coron]

Too many people want to lynch Near, IMO. Perhaps there's a good reason for it that I didn't pick up, being the replacement and all, but I think it's too strongly pushed, and a lot of people are just saying "Near is scum and I won't pursue anyone else until he's lynched".

He's stealing my reasoning!

[Guardian]

Coron, in 426, you didn't mention me or Macavenger, while ranking all the other players. Why?

[Evilgorrilaz]

Uhh, isn't SL voting for Macavenger and not near?

/* No, He's not. That was obviously a broken quote tag from near.
* -- Claus
*/

[Evilgorrilaz]

actually nvm, that was sl quoting near

[Coron]

Coron, in 426, you didn't mention me or Macavenger, while ranking all the other players. Why?

Because you're bad at reading.

[Guardian]

Yah I missed that line.

Guardian as a potential SK?

wtf?.. explain? SK tells???

[Coron]

Yah I missed that line.

Guardian as a potential SK?

wtf?.. explain? SK tells???

I know, I know, you want to know where you slipped up, but if I gave away too many of my secrets I wouldn't be any good at catching and correctly identifying scum.

[Guardian]

no. I've never understood comments like "X could be an SK" and I want to hear why now, since half the time they seem like bullshit offhand things said by scum.

I've personally never ecountered a reliable "SK tell" as opposed to "scum tell" so I'd love to hear your justification for thinking I might be an SK, otherwise I'm going to assume that you fall into the half that's a BS offhand scum comment.

[Evilgorrilaz]

Whats the difference between a sk tell and a regular mafia tell?

[Coron]

no. I've never understood comments like "X could be an SK" and I want to hear why now, since half the time they seem like bullshit offhand things said by scum.

I've personally never ecountered a reliable "SK tell" as opposed to "scum tell" so I'd love to hear your justification for thinking I might be an SK, otherwise I'm going to assume that you fall into the half that's a BS offhand scum comment.

Jeep seems to think there are tells for things other than just scum/not scum:
http://www.mafiascum.net/wiki/index.php ... mmon_Tells
he even has a section for finding the SK, however it is unfinished.

[PyroDwarf]

coron, You're talking about tells, well in that article, it says the first person to speculate on a role is likely to be that role. Now, I'm not sure if you are the first to mention it, but you are pointing lots of fingers. You have three people as potential SK. Planting seeds before night one so you can pick us off easier?

[Guardian]

no. I've never understood comments like "X could be an SK" and I want to hear why now, since half the time they seem like bullshit offhand things said by scum.

I've personally never ecountered a reliable "SK tell" as opposed to "scum tell" so I'd love to hear your justification for thinking I might be an SK, otherwise I'm going to assume that you fall into the half that's a BS offhand scum comment.

Jeep seems to think there are tells for things other than just scum/not scum:
http://www.mafiascum.net/wiki/index.php ... mmon_Tells
he even has a section for finding the SK, however it is unfinished.

First off, you seem to be appealing to authority here; just because jeep reuptedly may have thought something, doesn't make it so.

Second off, the article you are referencing had an expected completion date of mid-2004, and is still completely unwritten -- the thing says 50%, but when you click on the link it only says "article coming soon". Maybe in trying to articulate these "SK tells" jeep had a harder time than he thought he would.

Thirdly, and most damning, I've asked why I should believe YOU'VE seen an SK tell from ME in THIS GAME. You've provided a possible reason for me to believe that SK tells exist, at all, and done nothing to assert that it's even plausible I've committed an "SK tell" in this game.

I never said I'm sure they don't exist. I have said that if you don't say what "SK tell" I've comitted, and soon, I'm going to think that you, Coron, are just making it up that I've comitted some SK tell.

[Dasquian]

Near - you're at L-2 now.

Please

consider not stalling this game into deadline.

I'm watching the Guardian/Coron SK thing play out with interest. Right now, I'd side with Guardian that you just can't accuse someone of being a SK and it's actually a really cheap tactic, even before we check what those tells are. If Coron can make good on them, good for him, I doubt he can. Counting against Guardian though, I think it's a mild scum-tell that he's getting so annoyed at being accused of being a specific flavour of scum; one of the most annoying things that can happen to scum is when a townie does the right thing for entirely the wrong reasons.

Bottom line: I'll worry about a SK when I have to worry about a SK.

[Guardian]

Coron, while you're at it (I don't think I was reading very clearly last night, as we saw..)

if you could also explain what "SK tells" you found on the two other players you accused of having elevated chances of being and SK, that'd be great.

[Guardian]

vote: coron

this vote will be moved if coron explains adequately.

if not, based on what I've been saying, and what PD pointed out, if Coron doesn't explain adequately I think we have our SK, or at least some flavor of scum.

[Coron]

I don't use ANY set group of "tells" a lot of my accusisations are based on tendencies, and not one specific thing I see.

I'm having a hard time figuring it out, do you believe that sks actually act exactly the same as mafia, or are you just doubting my ability to figure out how they would act differently?

Saying that an SK and a mafia member act exactly the same is ridiculous, the mafia member has to think about his partners, where an sk does not, the sk then has a lot more freedom to move his vote around, where a mafia member might feel a bit restricted. Just as one of the things I look at.

In order to find role X I think about how I would want to act if I were role X, I also think about how I've seen the role act in the past(not specifically and games, just an abstraction).

[Macavenger]

Noting for deadline reasons that I would possibly be willing to support a Coron wagon over Near's, depending on developments. This is largely independent of this SK thing, he was already a top suspect before that, although I agree that if he doesn't produce a better explanation here soon this looks really bad.

[Macavenger]

And Coron posts while I'm typing. Meh on that reaction. Even if you don't have specific tells Coron, you've obviously seen some general tendencies or something - point a couple things out.