Mini 578 - Mistery at Montescuro - Game Over!

[Guardian]

I don't use ANY set group of "tells" a lot of my accusisations are based on tendencies, and not one specific thing I see.

I'm having a hard time figuring it out, do you believe that sks actually act exactly the same as mafia, or are you just doubting my ability to figure out how they would act differently?

Saying that an SK and a mafia member act exactly the same is ridiculous, the mafia member has to think about his partners, where an sk does not, the sk then has a lot more freedom to move his vote around, where a mafia member might feel a bit restricted. Just as one of the things I look at.

In order to find role X I think about how I would want to act if I were role X, I also think about how I've seen the role act in the past(not specifically and games, just an abstraction).

SKs have amazingly a lot in common with mafia: Survival is critical, less care for who is lynched, want to make friends, etc.. Until someone shows up mafia, and we can solidly speculate on connections (and then we see someone scummy but with no connections -- SK), I'm perplexed as to how you can "tell the difference" between SK and scum. Day 1, with no partner connections, saying you can see 3 good SK candidates boggles my mind.

I see no reason it would be detrimental to the town to explain reasoning that me and the 2 others 'could be SKs', and you continue to evade doing so.

[Coron]

And Coron posts while I'm typing. Meh on that reaction. Even if you don't have specific tells Coron, you've obviously seen some general tendencies or something - point a couple things out.

I *did* point something out.

Also, it helps that he doesn't look like he'd be scum with the people I think are the mafias.

[Macavenger]

I *did* point something out.

Also, it helps that he doesn't look like he'd be scum with the people I think are the mafias.

I meant point out something specific from this game here, which you somewhat did in this post.

[Coron]

SKs have amazingly a lot in common with mafia: Survival is critical, less care for who is lynched, want to make friends, etc.. Until someone shows up mafia, and we can solidly speculate on connections (and then we see someone scummy but with no connections -- SK), I'm perplexed as to how you can "tell the difference" between SK and scum. Day 1, with no partner connections, saying you can see 3 good SK candidates boggles my mind.

I almost always look at connections and how people act towards one another(and if they act differently towards some people as opposed to others), when I'm looking for scum in ANY day, it could be day -67 and I wouldn't care, it still works.

Secondly, mafia care A LOT about who is lynched, even beyond just "not me", since their partners getting lynch is JUST AS BAD as them getting lynched.

I see no reason it would be detrimental to the town to explain reasoning that me and the 2 others 'could be SKs', and you continue to evade doing so.

I have not been.

I could go through I list of everything I notice that SKs are more likely do than mafia, but really, 1) I don't want to 2) it means people will stop doing them so I would stop catching people 3) It would probably be fairly boring.

Most of it comes down to the fact that I'm getting bad vibes from Guardian without really anyone I could think of who would be scum with him.

For all we know we don't even have a SK, which is why Guardian is certainly not the lynch for today.

Since I feel slightly presured(1 vote and one promised vote, but this close to deadline we need to get things moving), I'll claim.

I'm a tracker.

[Guardian]

"Since I feel slightly pressured, I'll claim."

*HeadDesk*

....

[mikeburnfire]

What the hell Coron. We have several people with 3+ actual votes, and you roleclaim because you have 1 vote and one theoretical vote.

I want to abandon my current vote and vote you now.

[mikeburnfire]

No, you know what?

unvote, vote Near

Coron's roleclaiming was pointless and the only reason I can understand him doing it so close to deadline is because he wants to cause chaos and disrupt the impending Near lynch. I predict them being scum together.

[Guardian]

I have the inexplicable urge to hammer Near.

odd.

[Coron]

No, you know what?

unvote, vote Near

Coron's roleclaiming was pointless and the only reason I can understand him doing it so close to deadline is because he wants to cause chaos and disrupt the impending Near lynch. I predict them being scum together.

Honestly, information roles claiming early does not hurt town very much, if I were say, a townie, or a doctor, I would not have claimed.

[Coron]

Coron's roleclaiming was pointless and the only reason I can understand him doing it so close to deadline is because he wants to cause chaos and disrupt the impending Near lynch. I predict them being scum together.

Your logic is... completely ununderstandable.

How would me claiming affect in any way Near getting lynched/not getting lynched.

Please explain, thanks.

-Coron

[mikeburnfire]

To disrupt the speed of the game to discuss how plausible your sudden claim is.

Please explain how your claiming benefits us in any way.

[Coron]

To disrupt the speed of the game to discuss how plausible your sudden claim is.

Please explain how your claiming benefits us in any way.

1) Ideally it means people stop voting me for now and do something more productive
2) it means that any doctor we might have will know that I'm an investigation role and worth protecting
3) it's harder for scum to claim investigation roles early(especially trackers), if they don't actually have the ability because it gives a lot more verifiability
With of course the negatives being:
1) the scum know I'm an investigation role, so if they kill the doctor(or we don't have one) they can go after me and shut me up.
2) Early claims make the game slightly less fun.
3) I dunno, add your own stuff here.

Near is currently at lynch, if things go on without any change as disrupting the flow in that way would make it tend towards, he would be lynched, thus, what your saying seems a little silly to me.

[mikeburnfire]

There are other ways to stop people from voting you that involve

keeping useful abilities to yourself

Points two and three are refuted by the fact that we don't know you're not lying scum.

What does claiming NOW benefit the town? You have no information for us. You are forcing the doctor, should we have one, to make a difficult choice between believing you and deciding if you are worth the protection. You have made us stop discussing who we were going to lynch between Near and DBE, allegedly just so the one person who had their vote on you would stop voting you, in which case you are more focused on your own survival than the good of the town, making you scum.

[Coron]

There are other ways to stop people from voting you that involve

keeping useful abilities to yourself

Points two and three are refuted by the fact that we don't know you're not lying scum.

What does claiming NOW benefit the town? You have no information for us. You are forcing the doctor, should we have one, to make a difficult choice between believing you and deciding if you are worth the protection. You have made us stop discussing who we were going to lynch between Near and DBE, allegedly just so the one person who had their vote on you would stop voting you, in which case you are more focused on your own survival than the good of the town, making you scum.

Blah blah blah. Most of this is based off of "oh well you could still be lying scum. Well, I guess it's possible that I'd be a mafia tracker, but it's very hard for a person without actual tracking ability to pull off a tracker claim successfully. I think it could help the town because I felt like there was at least a reasonable chance I'd die tonight, and between that and having people distracting away from what we should be doing and attacking me, I felt it was in the town's best intrest for me to claim. Honestly I was contemplating claiming before anyone even voted me, for the reason that then the doctor would know I was worth saving and not leave me to the scum.

The problem wasn't really the one vote, it was the idea that all the conversation going on was about me, and not about people I suspected were scum and that we should lynch today.

My point is you weren't discussing who to lynch between DBE and Near, you were discussing whether I could really read SKs day one, I was hoping if I claimed we could get back on track, but it seems that you're sending us even further off track, which means I guess my claim backfired.

And, yes, I am worried about my own survival, but only for the good of the town, not above the good of the town.

[Guardian]

Why do I want to vote Near so much?

I think I am going to hammer Near.

[Coron]

Why do I want to vote Near so much?

I think I am going to hammer Near.

Senor Serial Killer strikes again

[mikeburnfire]

Coron, you are lying scum. You are either a mafia tracker, or you are a vanilla mafia pretending. I can just see what's going to happen tomorrow.

"I targeted the person who died during the night."

"I targeted this person (scummate). He did nothing/targeted person not dead."

"I targeted this person (obvious townie). He did nothing."

"I targeted this person. I was roleblocked."

"I targeted somebody, but I don't want to reveal my results because the person I tracked targeted somebody who is not dead, leading me to believe that they are a powerrole who should remain secret."

[PyroDwarf]

i hate it when people claim like this. this not presure. i'm on my way out and my comp is busted posting by psp sux.

[Guardian]

Let's lynch Coron.

Not Near.

Coron may well be scum with Near.

But the prior 10 posts or so form Coron just don't make sense from Coron town.

Coron, your claim was really bad if it had the purposes you purport, since your claim makes me want to focus on you much more not less, and makes me think you are scum more, not less.

More votes for Coron would be great.

[Guardian]

Also, he's danced around it and talked in generalities, but he's never pointed to specific in this game reasons why in this game me and the other 2 people he fingered as SK are likely to be SKs.

You've said I could not be scum with people -- I can think of a few people it would be totally plausible to say I'm tied to or whatnot. You smell of rotten fish.

[mikeburnfire]

Hey, I can dig it.

unvote, vote Coron

[Coron]

Coron, you are lying scum. You are either a mafia tracker, or you are a vanilla mafia pretending. I can just see what's going to happen tomorrow.

"I targeted the person who died during the night."

"I targeted this person (scummate). He did nothing/targeted person not dead."

"I targeted this person (obvious townie). He did nothing."

"I targeted this person. I was roleblocked."

"I targeted somebody, but I don't want to reveal my results because the person I tracked targeted somebody who is not dead, leading me to believe that they are a powerrole who should remain secret."

So people are willing to give me the benefit of thinking I can read who is a townie and not a power role, but avoid giving the benefit of thinking I can read who sk is as opposed to mafia, sure, I can do both reasonably well, but i still think it's rather silly.

Also, if such a thing happens for a couple nights you can re-examine this. Although I don't think you're "Obvious townie" thing really works out.

I still don't understand why you think I'm obviously lying scum. Sure, I wasn't under much pressure, I agree, but the point is that the discussion was turning in a non-productive direction like 4 days before deadline, and claiming by investigative roles on early days is not really all that bad for town (can I really read wether people are SKs or not? Btw, answer is Yes).

I dunno, generally what I remembered of MBF is he was a good mafia player, but his actions here have not been indicative of that, which I guess brings him up ever so slightly on the scummometer, but still not particularly high. I certainly hope you have a reason for this at the end of the game MBF, or I might have to pull your "this player is a good mafia player" card.

I still think Near should claim... come to think of it he hasn't posted in a while.

[mikeburnfire]

First of all, I'm not "people". I never said you cannot read between sk and mafia. The possibility of a SK is not even being considered by me, and I find your suspecting people of being SKs to be foolish given that there is no evidence they exist.

Near was two votes from a lynch. Do you REALLY think we couldn't have gotten those two votes in four days time without your claim? Rubbish.

I certainly hope you have a reason for this at the end of the game MBF, or I might have to pull your "this player is a good mafia player" card.

If you truly are town, then go ahead and pull my "good player" card. It's be like a blind paraplegic revoking my driver's license.

[Coron]

First of all, I'm not "people". I never said you cannot read between sk and mafia. The possibility of a SK is not even being considered by me, and I find your suspecting people of being SKs to be foolish given that there is no evidence they exist.

Near was two votes from a lynch. Do you REALLY think we couldn't have gotten those two votes in four days time without your claim? Rubbish.

I certainly hope you have a reason for this at the end of the game MBF, or I might have to pull your "this player is a good mafia player" card.

If you truly are town, then go ahead and pull my "good player" card. It's be like a blind paraplegic revoking my driver's license.

At least back when I used to play, most minis were 3 mafia 1 sk 8 town. Please tell me if the metagame has changed since then.

MBF, about that, at deadline if he had 4+ votes he would have been lynched anyway, we were not in danger of no lynching really, if I were scum with Near it would've been counterproductive for me to distract the town from the main bandwagons.

About the blind paraplegic comment... I guess I've really never been that great at mafia, I admit, I don't win that much, since I am often bad at convincing people, but I at least like to think that I can read people fairly well.

[Coron]

I'm gonna go split wood for a while, so responding to your ridiculous allegations will not be in nearly as real time as it has been.