Mafia 102: No-Frills Game Thread(Town wins!)

[hiphop]

vote X_~

no explanation needed.

---------------------

Super Accurate* Vote Count(as of post 50):

CSL - 2(mask man, crypto)
Sando - 1(SerialClergyman)
crypto - 1(EtherealCookie)
mask man - 1(Sando)
X_~ - 1(hiphop)

Not Voting:le Chat, CSL, X_~, muh316, Staple, Team Aether, Kaiveran, bigmc109, charter, Pomegranate

*Not guaranteed to be accurate.

[mask man]

Sando: I was just responding to crypto's question.
Speaking of, I think crypto should get the MVP this game, he is really cracking down with that pressure on PC, and he isn't afraid to put someone at L-7. Did you see how calmly he responded to you Sando? He was like, 'It was mask's confirmation post', then right after that he clarified the post as addressing you like it was no big deal. That House av is really starting to mind-game us guys, we need to do something in case crypto is scum, some kinda backup plan.

[charter]

Sooo, with just three mafia in a 16 person game, I think it could be beneficial to no lynch for a few days, in order to give the cop a few investigations.

Plus side, we can get ~3-4 confirmed town which the cop can reveal the first 'real' day before we lynch someone.

Of course, the down side to this is if the cop gets NK'ed, then this will backfire massively.

However, if we just straight no lynch for a few (2-3) days, without discussion, then I don't see how scum can kill the cop other than random, and that's an extremely long shot, whereas the chance of the cop investigating a scum or two is much better.

I'd also like to say, that I was mafia in silent mafia, where there is no talking, and it took us a while to pick out power roles, whereas they tore us apart, so I see this as a potential similar scenario.

So I will

Vote No lynch

. I see how this idea will probably be met with skepticism, but I think it's fairly gamebreaking. If anyone agrees, you should vote no lynch as well. Of course, I'm not going to push this if there isn't going to be support.

[crypto]

Precisely, Mask.

Charter is obviously scum trying to even the odds.

[mask man]

My plan: It's better then yours: And this is it:
NL
D2, everybody says who they inspected and the result. Clearly everyone will lie, except for the cop.
If a townie died NL again. If cop died, just get to business(would be odd number anyway.).
D3 same as D2, we might(not likely) decide to lynch. If by D3 the cop has a scum result, they may want to claim.
NL
D4 we start lynching and the real cop claims. If the jailkeeper is dead we may want to change it up a little.

I like this because if the mafia want to try and pull a cop-gambit, they have to have it planned for a day or so. Also, if the cop dies then we just look at who he 'pretended' to inspect.

Thoughts?

[charter]

Eh, I like where your head is at mask man, but hypocop is actually a really poor town strategy. It lets scum pinpoint the cop VERY fast.

I would actually love it if scum tried to pull a cop gambit, since there is no way to actually pull it off and they are just outing themselves.

[mask man]

hypocop eh? Sounds like a strategy name. Which means I didn't invent it.
man.

My brain was on fire briefly; I never really thought of mafia seeing 'that group of people got town on us. They aren't cop.'

Think like this though:
9p, 2 scum 1 cop. A+B is scum C is cop.
NL D1, D2 player 'I' dies.
A: town on G
B: town on H
C: town on D
D: scum on F
E: scum on G
F: town on H
G: town on H
H: town on C

From this the mafia conclude cop is H or C
They decide to kill C.

Now D is cleared, and the town thinks 'it's most likely not a coincidence, the mafia checked.'
now the town can check each pairs PoV and find which had the most narrow choices of cop possibilities. It's even easier and more defined with H clear.

Course until I run numbers and shit with this setup, we shouldn't go with it. Thanks for catching that charterscum.

[crypto]

Meanwhile,

unvote: EtherealCookie.

Vote: X_~.

Doesn't mean Cookie isn't scum too, though.

[crypto]

Oh, that's right, I was voting for CSL.

Unvote: CSL. Vote: X_~.

[hiphop]

Oh, that's right, I was voting for CSL.

Unvote: CSL. Vote: X_~.

So CSL must be scum.

unvote
vote CSL

[crypto]

Er, not what I was shooting for. Expliquez?

[SerialClergyman]

My only problem with charter's approach is that it's a little against the spirit, but ostensibly it looks pretty good to me.

No lynch

[SerialClergyman]

err

unvote, vote No Lynch

[Kaiveran]

rawrf. what a night. i'm pretty spaced right now, so bandwagon on

no lynch

i'll come back tomorrow when I have logical thinking abilituy.

[CSL]

Vote: No Lynch

Ehh...bandwagoning a peace option....

[muh316]

vote: no lynch

I guess this all makes sense. But wouldnt the townies that seem the least suspected be Night killed.

[crypto]

This is a terrible idea. Why the hell would we not take the time to converse?

Oh, wait, maybe because the mafia doesn't want to.

[charter]

Maybe instead of just calling everyone voting no lynch mafia (which is obviously not true), you could explain why it isn't a good idea. I've already explained why it is, and oh wait, looks like people agree.

Maybe, instead of spamming the thread with junk, you could try and do something useful too.

[crypto]

oh wait, looks like people agree.

In this thread most people are mafia. (Very possible that the mod simply made a typo in the rules, and that there are really

thirteen

scum.)

spamming the thread

Meta me. It's my job. More addiction than job, actually. It's a work in progress.

Serious mode. I don't mean your idea is terrible. It's definitely not a bad idea, though I need to think about it more before I decide I like it or not. But that's not the point. The point is that everyone racing to a no-lynch without playing around at least for a little while is terrible. We should still play out the game like any other and poke around for suspects, for several reasons.

• The obvious: For the mafia, misinformation or (more pertinently here) lack of information is key, whereas for the town, information is key. Racing to no-lynch with zero conversation on day one, and then—assuming the jailkeeper guesses wrong—losing a man on night 1 is like injecting night 0 into the game. It's unnecessary given that we have the power to
  talk
  and it puts us a night behind the mafia in terms of population.
  
  
• The less obvious (but still obvious): Conversation will help the cop narrow down investigation options. Even if one of our resident baddies does not slip up logically, gut reads based on a full day 1 are better than gut reads based on the confirmation phase.
  
  
• Going from obvious to semi-obvious here: Not racing to no-lynch gives us the time to make sure Charter-scum or bandwagon-scum is seeing something, i.e., a loophole, that bandwagon-town or Charter-town missed. Granted, it looks fine by me, but that's the point. Anyway, that's a side note.
  
  
• Given the enormous percentage of townies, the mafia
  must
  make a kill every night in order to stay in the game. If we approach day 1 conventionally and throw around theories, suspicions, etc., then we'll have some background info when day 2 dawns and some sorry corpse rolls around. Even taking kill motivation WIFOM into consideration, some info about interaction is better than none.
  
  
• I think I had some other relatively minor reasons, but I forgot them. Regardless, this last one is
  crucial
  :

  You are a Cop.

  Every night you may choose(via PM) one person to investigate for alignment. Even if successful,

  you are not guaranteed to get accurate results

  . You win when all threats to the town are eliminated.

  Think about it. Sixteen players, thirteen of which are town. That's 81.25%. Unless my math's off (not my forte, honestly), mafia's quickest route to victory is
  five
  consecutive days with mis-lynches coupled with
  five
  consecutive nights with successful kills, at which point three goons endgame three townies. That's one tall feat, and even then it's worst case scenario for the town—it'd require a massive meltdown, months of utterly demented scum hunting. And it's even tougher when you factor in no-lynches, which would, what, double the number of days it'd take?
  
  Now, add in a cop and the mafia's job becomes all but impossible ("hard" being quite the understatement). Only 18.75% of the crew is scum, so it's less likely the cop will peg scum than in 25% scum setup, but even then the mere existence of a cop, especially when mafia doesn't even have a roleblocker, is devastating.
  
  You know where this is going. The cop is not sane.

So. This post surprised me and turned into a wall-o'-text. The last bullet hadn't struck me until halfway through. If I had to choose, I'd say the cop is

not

sane. Specifically, paranoid or naive (or random, but that's bastardly).

If the cop is non-sane and if we no-lynch without doing much talking until, say, day three or four, then suddenly we don't have much breathing room. We've got our heads in the sand and we've gone all the way from 13–3 to 10– or 9–3, which is standard mini normal fare.

And

we've got however many investigation results that we can't make head or tail of.

Discuss.

[muh316]

I think crypto is right about this one. The cop isnt going to get accurate results and our mod seems like the type who fools around and messes with people.

unvote

[crypto]

Since you mentioned it, I did a quick meta and the Cop Isn't Sane stock just went up to 75% in my book.

[Scigatt]

oh wait, looks like people agree.

In this thread most people are mafia. (Very possible that the mod simply made a typo in the rules, and that there are really

thirteen

scum.)

spamming the thread

Meta me. It's my job. More addiction than job, actually. It's a work in progress.

Serious mode. I don't mean your idea is terrible. It's definitely not a bad idea, though I need to think about it more before I decide I like it or not. But that's not the point. The point is that everyone racing to a no-lynch without playing around at least for a little while is terrible. We should still play out the game like any other and poke around for suspects, for several reasons.

• The obvious: For the mafia, misinformation or (more pertinently here) lack of information is key, whereas for the town, information is key. Racing to no-lynch with zero conversation on day one, and then—assuming the jailkeeper guesses wrong—losing a man on night 1 is like injecting night 0 into the game. It's unnecessary given that we have the power to
  talk
  and it puts us a night behind the mafia in terms of population.
  
  
• The less obvious (but still obvious): Conversation will help the cop narrow down investigation options. Even if one of our resident baddies does not slip up logically, gut reads based on a full day 1 are better than gut reads based on the confirmation phase.
  
  
• Going from obvious to semi-obvious here: Not racing to no-lynch gives us the time to make sure Charter-scum or bandwagon-scum is seeing something, i.e., a loophole, that bandwagon-town or Charter-town missed. Granted, it looks fine by me, but that's the point. Anyway, that's a side note.
  
  
• Given the enormous percentage of townies, the mafia
  must
  make a kill every night in order to stay in the game. If we approach day 1 conventionally and throw around theories, suspicions, etc., then we'll have some background info when day 2 dawns and some sorry corpse rolls around. Even taking kill motivation WIFOM into consideration, some info about interaction is better than none.
  
  
• I think I had some other relatively minor reasons, but I forgot them. Regardless, this last one is
  crucial
  :

  You are a Cop.

  Every night you may choose(via PM) one person to investigate for alignment. Even if successful,

  you are not guaranteed to get accurate results

  . You win when all threats to the town are eliminated.

  Think about it. Sixteen players, thirteen of which are town. That's 81.25%. Unless my math's off (not my forte, honestly), mafia's quickest route to victory is
  five
  consecutive days with mis-lynches coupled with
  five
  consecutive nights with successful kills, at which point three goons endgame three townies. That's one tall feat, and even then it's worst case scenario for the town—it'd require a massive meltdown, months of utterly demented scum hunting. And it's even tougher when you factor in no-lynches, which would, what, double the number of days it'd take?
  
  Now, add in a cop and the mafia's job becomes all but impossible ("hard" being quite the understatement). Only 18.75% of the crew is scum, so it's less likely the cop will peg scum than in 25% scum setup, but even then the mere existence of a cop, especially when mafia doesn't even have a roleblocker, is devastating.
  
  You know where this is going. The cop is not sane.

So. This post surprised me and turned into a wall-o'-text. The last bullet hadn't struck me until halfway through. If I had to choose, I'd say the cop is

not

sane. Specifically, paranoid or naive (or random, but that's bastardly).

If the cop is non-sane and if we no-lynch without doing much talking until, say, day three or four, then suddenly we don't have much breathing room. We've got our heads in the sand and we've gone all the way from 13–3 to 10– or 9–3, which is standard mini normal fare.

And

we've got however many investigation results that we can't make head or tail of.

Discuss.

Crap...The cop PM I sent isn't exactly the same as the the one I posted. Mea Culpa, I'll go fix that.

Edit:Fixed. I changed what what was posted to what was sent.

[charter]

That's a good point crypto, I didn't even notice the cop might not be sane. The new pm posted isn't any more reassuring. No lynch idea is now officially a bad idea.

unvote, vote hiphop

For ignoring the idea before. I'd think if you were town, you'd have at least something to say when someone suggests a no lynch.

[mask man]

Morning,
So uh, yeah, agree with crypto basically.

I'm fine with NL and all that, but when 4 people mindlessly vote NL with little explanation... In a row... While even mentioning 'lol bandwagon'... And Muh even had a counter with 'But people will die!', which I'm sure that nobody else figured, yet he still just went with the crowed.

If you are so addicted to Combo-ing on the internet that you would do something like that, get off my mafiascum mania.

[crypto]

Mod error, if it even warrants that label, doesn't mean much. A meta of Scigatt's cop PMs shows that this one's different anyway—necessarily.

Cop could still be sane. I just think that, given the other aspects of the setup, he isn't. Role PM discrepancies in the meta are the icing.