Scummies 2011 Nominations
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Xalxe He/himIt's pronounced "Xalxe"He/him
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q21 Mafia Scum
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There used to be such an award but it was dropped because it it rewards failure which is not something we should be doing.SaintKerrigan wrote:I could've sworn there was an award for best performance in a losing cause, but I don't see the category now...
For 2011, IRequest a "Best Performance in a Losing Cause"category, and for that category,Nominate MagnaofIllusionfor his performance inThe Return to Liten(no link because for some reason my comp isn't letting me copy-paste ). By the end of Day 4 in an 18-player game, he was the only scum player alive, but he successfully took the game to lylo and wasthatclose to pulling out the victory. The person casting the deciding vote had a difficult time choosing Magna over the other player, and I think this speaks volumes with regards to Magna's play. (Not to mention that I had someone outside the game guess who the scum was in lylo, and Magna was the person's last choice.)"I can't not give mad props to the murderbot 9000 that was q21." - Spyrex, after Scummies Invitational 2010.
You know those times when you wish you could think of something really funny or interesting to say, but just can't?... Yep, this is one of those times.-
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Mr. Flay Metatron
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gandalf5166 Jack of All Trades
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Ythan SheWelcome to the HaystackShe
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Empking Empking's Alt's Alt
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Xalxe He/himIt's pronounced "Xalxe"He/him
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Not if it's a result of other poor players.Empking wrote:
But how do you get in a losing situation? That's right, poor play.Ythan wrote:Gandalf is right. It doesn't reward failure at all."I, too, would prefer to know the Xalxe of my demise." - Felissan, 2022
- On this day in history: mundanity, and terror, and food, and love, and trees --
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Empking Empking's Alt's Alt
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Good players can minimise the impact of bad players. (so that it's not a "losing cause".)Xalxe wrote:
Not if it's a result of other poor players.Empking wrote:
But how do you get in a losing situation? That's right, poor play.Ythan wrote:Gandalf is right. It doesn't reward failure at all.Plus, if you guys want to make a point, skip the walls, because everyone else in the game does as well. - Magister Ludi-
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Xalxe He/himIt's pronounced "Xalxe"He/him
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Not if the other players are better.Empking wrote:
Good players can minimise the impact of bad players. (so that it's not a "losing cause".)Xalxe wrote:
Not if it's a result of other poor players.Empking wrote:
But how do you get in a losing situation? That's right, poor play.Ythan wrote:Gandalf is right. It doesn't reward failure at all."I, too, would prefer to know the Xalxe of my demise." - Felissan, 2022
- On this day in history: mundanity, and terror, and food, and love, and trees --
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Empking Empking's Alt's Alt
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If the reward is for not giving up when faced with opponents that are better that you then that's pretty clearly a reward for poor play.Xalxe wrote:
Not if the other players are better.Empking wrote:
Good players can minimise the impact of bad players. (so that it's not a "losing cause".)Xalxe wrote:
Not if it's a result of other poor players.Empking wrote:
But how do you get in a losing situation? That's right, poor play.Ythan wrote:Gandalf is right. It doesn't reward failure at all.Plus, if you guys want to make a point, skip the walls, because everyone else in the game does as well. - Magister Ludi-
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SaintKerrigan Brings Out The Flavour
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FTFYEmpking wrote:
trololol.Xalxe wrote:
Not if the other players are better.Empking wrote:
trololol.Xalxe wrote:
Not if it's a result of other poor players.Empking wrote:trololol.ALMOST ALWAYS BUSY 9-6 CST WEEKDAYS-
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Xalxe He/himIt's pronounced "Xalxe"He/him
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SaintKerrigan Brings Out The Flavour
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Empking Empking's Alt's Alt
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How is it a technicality?
Poor play is how you get into a losing cause (excluding with replacements but that's rewarded elsewhere.) Xalxe tried to work out a nitpick to dispute that. I said why I disagreed. Xalxe nitpicked again. I said why that was irrelevant.Plus, if you guys want to make a point, skip the walls, because everyone else in the game does as well. - Magister Ludi-
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SaintKerrigan Brings Out The Flavour
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Because you are assuming that the "poor play" of the person nominated is the reason why that person's team lost. Yes,technicallyMagna didn't win the game,buthe did take the game to a D7 lylo, despite some doozies from other members of the scumteam. The fact that it was a hard decision for the player with the deciding vote gives further credit to Magna's play.
The award is for players who put forth an amazing effortdespitenot winning the game, and Magna's play certainly qualifies.
(Also, do yourself a favor and read the mentioned game before arguing theory.)
EDIT: The Return to Liten, now that copy-paste is working again.ALMOST ALWAYS BUSY 9-6 CST WEEKDAYS-
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Empking Empking's Alt's Alt
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No I'm not. Actually, yes I am. Magua's play was by very definition was not good enough otherwise he would have won but that's utterly irrelevant.SaintKerrigan wrote:Because you are assuming that the "poor play" of the person nominated is the reason why that person's team lost.
Look either his play was good enough for the scum scummy in which case you could nominate him for thatYes,technicallyMagna didn't win the game,buthe did take the game to a D7 lylo, despite some doozies from other members of the scumteam. The fact that it was a hard decision for the player with the deciding vote gives further credit to Magna's play.orhis early play was poor and he let his buddies drag him down(before improving once they're dead) in which case giving him a reward is giving it to him based on poor play.
There's no "is" about it.The award is for players who put forth an amazing effortdespitenot winning the game, and Magna's play certainly qualifies.
Read the end game and post-game. Nothing has changed my mind. I would also like to mention that before this post this whole conversation has been Magna and Liten free.(Also, do yourself a favor and read the mentioned game before arguing theory.)
EDIT: The Return to Liten, now that copy-paste is working again.Plus, if you guys want to make a point, skip the walls, because everyone else in the game does as well. - Magister Ludi-
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SaintKerrigan Brings Out The Flavour
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So, essentially, you expect Magna to play perfectly, and if he had done so, he wouldn't have lost the game. That's not what this award is about. It's about putting forth a good effort, even though you didn't quite pull it off.
The vibe I'm getting from you is that you think because Magna lost the game, his overall play was poor. In my opinion, that's crappy generalization. Yes, he didn't play a perfect game. Yes, he made some mistakes. Butoverall, he did a damned good job to make it as far as he did, andthatis why I want to recognize his performance.
You can't judge his performance by endgame alone. If you want to form an honest opinion, you ought to read his entire play. I mean, he was on many people's townlists for the greater majority of the game...
(I'm getting the feeling this line of convo is about to get the bejesus split out of it...)ALMOST ALWAYS BUSY 9-6 CST WEEKDAYS-
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Empking Empking's Alt's Alt
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Magna's play wasn'tSaintKerrigan wrote:So, essentially, you expect Magna to play perfectly, and if he had done so, he wouldn't have lost the game. That's not what this award is about. It's about putting forth a good effort, even though you didn't quite pull it off.
The vibe I'm getting from you is that you think because Magna lost the game, his overall play was poor. In my opinion, that's crappy generalization. Yes, he didn't play a perfect game. Yes, he made some mistakes. Butoverall, he did a damned good job to make it as far as he did, andthatis why I want to recognize his performance.
You can't judge his performance by endgame alone. If you want to form an honest opinion, you ought to read his entire play. I mean, he was on many people's townlists for the greater majority of the game...
(I'm getting the feeling this line of convo is about to get the bejesus split out of it...)good enoughbecause he lost. His play waspoorbecause you want him to give him Best Performance in a Losing Cause (and re-introduce the award for him) rather than giving him a good scum award.
If his early play was better than you wouldn't be nominating him for Losing Cause. Therefore he's getting nominated for the award based on his early play being poor. Theregore its an award for poor play.Plus, if you guys want to make a point, skip the walls, because everyone else in the game does as well. - Magister Ludi-
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Xalxe He/himIt's pronounced "Xalxe"He/him
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So, Empking, I provide you with a scenario:
You are scum with HiImaShittyNewb.
Town consists of DGB, SaintKerrigan, and mith, who are all fantastic scumhunters.
Shittynewb gets lynched. You nightkill mith.
SaintKerrigan votes you instantly, claiming a cop result. You retaliate with a brilliant case, explaining exactly why SK is lying scummery.
DGB interrogates the hell out of SK for weeks before finally hammering you.
Postgame, she admits that without your case, she would've hammered you instantly, and that as it was, it was very, very close.
I say you deserve the award for almost pulling the win off.
Discuss."I, too, would prefer to know the Xalxe of my demise." - Felissan, 2022
- On this day in history: mundanity, and terror, and food, and love, and trees --
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Empking Empking's Alt's Alt
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Xalxe He/himIt's pronounced "Xalxe"He/him
- It's pronounced "Xalxe"
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Empking Empking's Alt's Alt
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1. What award does the guy who pulled it off get?Xalxe wrote:It's not more deserving of the same award as actually pulling it off.
That's why it's two different awards.
2. Why can't Mr. Almost Won get that award?
3. Why should it be two different awards?Plus, if you guys want to make a point, skip the walls, because everyone else in the game does as well. - Magister Ludi-
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SaintKerrigan Brings Out The Flavour
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I have no idea how you are deriving these conclusions, and personally I think you're just arguing for the sake of arguing.Empking wrote:
Magna's play wasn'tSaintKerrigan wrote:So, essentially, you expect Magna to play perfectly, and if he had done so, he wouldn't have lost the game. That's not what this award is about. It's about putting forth a good effort, even though you didn't quite pull it off.
The vibe I'm getting from you is that you think because Magna lost the game, his overall play was poor. In my opinion, that's crappy generalization. Yes, he didn't play a perfect game. Yes, he made some mistakes. Butoverall, he did a damned good job to make it as far as he did, andthatis why I want to recognize his performance.
You can't judge his performance by endgame alone. If you want to form an honest opinion, you ought to read his entire play. I mean, he was on many people's townlists for the greater majority of the game...
(I'm getting the feeling this line of convo is about to get the bejesus split out of it...)good enoughbecause he lost. His play waspoorbecause you want him to give him Best Performance in a Losing Cause (and re-introduce the award for him) rather than giving him a good scum award.
If his early play was better than you wouldn't be nominating him for Losing Cause. Therefore he's getting nominated for the award based on his early play being poor. Theregore its an award for poor play.
Magna's play wasn't perfect. That does not mean it was poor. You can play a good game and still lose, and this is what happened to Magna.ALMOST ALWAYS BUSY 9-6 CST WEEKDAYS-
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MagnaofIllusion has been killed Night 1
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Any player can play an absolutely brilliant game but still lose. And any player can play a craptastic game and win. Chesskid in Liten is an example of the later. To use an analogy Micheal Jordan played for subpar Chicago Bulls teams for several years until he got a good supporting cast (and I am not comparing myself to him … this is just an example). Because his teams didn’t win in the play-offs does not mean he played poorly.Empking wrote:Magna's play wasn't good enough because he lost. His play was poor because you want him to give him Best Performance in a Losing Cause (and re-introduce the award for him) rather than giving him a good scum award.
If his early play was better than you wouldn't be nominating him for Losing Cause. Therefore he's getting nominated for the award based on his early play being poor. Theregore its an award for poor play.
If your objection is the reintroduction of the award that is one argument. But trying to say that in a team game by eventually losing it means you must have played poorly is just stupid."I am a leaf on the wind ... watch how I soar!"
Pretty much Geriatric game restricted at this point ... unless there are players I REALLY want to play with.-
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Empking Empking's Alt's Alt
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His play is not Don Corleone standard. (I'm judging this from your posting.)SaintKerrigan wrote:
I have no idea how you are deriving these conclusions, and personally I think you're just arguing for the sake of arguing.Empking wrote:
Magna's play wasn'tSaintKerrigan wrote:So, essentially, you expect Magna to play perfectly, and if he had done so, he wouldn't have lost the game. That's not what this award is about. It's about putting forth a good effort, even though you didn't quite pull it off.
The vibe I'm getting from you is that you think because Magna lost the game, his overall play was poor. In my opinion, that's crappy generalization. Yes, he didn't play a perfect game. Yes, he made some mistakes. Butoverall, he did a damned good job to make it as far as he did, andthatis why I want to recognize his performance.
You can't judge his performance by endgame alone. If you want to form an honest opinion, you ought to read his entire play. I mean, he was on many people's townlists for the greater majority of the game...
(I'm getting the feeling this line of convo is about to get the bejesus split out of it...)good enoughbecause he lost. His play waspoorbecause you want him to give him Best Performance in a Losing Cause (and re-introduce the award for him) rather than giving him a good scum award.
If his early play was better than you wouldn't be nominating him for Losing Cause. Therefore he's getting nominated for the award based on his early play being poor. Theregore its an award for poor play.
Magna's play wasn't perfect. That does not mean it was poor. You can play a good game and still lose, and this is what happened to Magna.
If he played a smidgen better then he wouldn't be eligible for Losing Cause.
Losing cause as an award is one that rewards people that play just a little too poorly.
Preview; Just to clarify, I am not saying Magna playedpoorlybecause he lost.Plus, if you guys want to make a point, skip the walls, because everyone else in the game does as well. - Magister Ludi
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