DEFCON Mafia 2.0 - Over, American Victory!

[Fate]

Don't pretend that your "What's this dana defense," proposition at me wasn't an open ended statement. It could literally be translated several ways, from asking me "why I don't want to burn dana," to "why am I buddying up to dana," to "what do you see in dana that I don't?"

I can make no assumption that you didn't read the quote and you simply were asking me why I wasn't on the same page as you.

OK LETS BREAK IT DOWN:

Well well well look who we have here.

Toog whats all this dana defense going on.

And i know what you're going to say,
"Im just callin it how i sees t because im bi-partisan vote me for prez"

But no. I don't want ot hear that, I want to hear what you think of his ALIGNMENT. IN. THIS. GAME>

When you read this post your reaction wasn't:
"defending dana? I wasn't defending dana. I was just reading through his meta, and I was wondering why you think he should be posting content when he never does as either alignment. Oh and

here's what I fuckin think about dana's alignment THIS game since I'm answering your question.

"

You reaction WAS INSTEAD:
"I never defended dana! I just said Im not willing to a take a stance on him either fuckin way. lololololol BTW FATEYOU COULD BE SCUM PUSHING POLICY LYNCHESSSSSSS"


GG sir.

GfuckingG.


Everyone go re-read Toog's lists posts with this in mind and don't follow the Red Panda to scumsville role choice paradise.

[Fate]

Well well well look who we have here.

Toog whats all this dana defense going on.

And i know what you're going to say,
"Im just callin it how i sees t because im bi-partisan vote me for prez"

But no. I don't want ot hear that, I want to hear what you think of his ALIGNMENT. IN. THIS. GAME>

Spy, if you want to tell me how this screams that Fate didn't read the quote, I'd love to hear. I answered the question the way I saw it asked of me.

I asked you what you thought of his alignment THIS game, and you said "I'm not ready to burn him yet theres nothing to go off of bawwww" not even a simple:
1. This post is scummy
or
2. He promises to say something important, and all he has to say is XX, huh maybe you're onto something Fate
or
3. I think he's townish the way he could give less of a damn
or
4. The arbitrary Defcon 4 5 thing makes no damn sense.
OR ANYTING OF THAT DGOD DAMN NATURE

WHAT YOU SAID WAS

FENCE, HERE I AM. *SIT*

[SpyreX]

Pretty much that.

It's not a function of fate reading the quote.

Its a function of your response to him asking why you were defending dana having NOTHING to do with that being a quote and the "anyone can be scum!"

Or, at least that is what Fate is clearly going on about.

Like I said MY issue is something different entirely.

[SpyreX]

STOP PREVIEW EDITING ME FATE

[Toogeloo]

I have no intention of revealing my reads about any player, thank you.

You tell me how this sentiment that you were looking for:

When you read this post your reaction wasn't:
"defending dana? I wasn't defending dana.

...is different than this sentiment...

You reaction WAS INSTEAD:
"I never defended dana!

Why don't you be honest with yourself and just say you are upset because I didn't say what alignment I think dana is?

[SpyreX]

It is sleeptime but #529 may in fact be the biggest QUE I've had in a while .

[Toogeloo]

I'll give you a hint Fate...

I have about 14 Neutral reads in this game right now, 2 reads I think are scum, and 3 reads I think are town. Anyone want to one up me and say that they have more reads than that?

[Jed Cooper]

Jed, you are really reaching, just so you know.

First off, it's an example.
Secondly, You can't say for certain what people are going to want.

Maybe someone thinks of themselves as a high profile target, so taking things like Doctor or Cop aren't on their list because they know the role could die soon. Maybe (I'm looking at IS on this one) some one just wants to nukes another player and to hell with the other power roles. Maybe a person values a nuke's ICBM ability (or nuking ability /shrug) over other PRs.


At the end of the day, it was an example though...

Examples lead people.

[Fate]

I have no intention of revealing my reads about any player, thank you.

.
Tech.

Here, and I hate explaining to scum why they're scum but let me go through the motions REAL SLOW:

Youre fucking quote snipping.

"I never defended dana! I just said Im not willing to a take a stance on him either fuckin way. lololololol BTW FATEYOU COULD BE SCUM PUSHING POLICY LYNCHESSSSSSS"

THATS the entirety of my representation of what you said.

Both town you AND scum you would clarify that you weren't defending Dana, YES. The way you did it though, the sentiment and the METHOD of your clarification was what I was looking for:

1. Is calm and relaxed. You point out that you were going through dana's meta and setting realistic expectations, and wondering what I expected of him.

2. Is anxious. You focus more on your stance of dana that you aren't ready to burn him yet, when I never asked if you wanted to lynch him or not. You then go and try to flip the cards around and paint me as scum for pushing a "policy lynch" when you can't in your RIGHT MIND call it a policy lynch when I'm making points against him THIS GAME.

And i Swear if you pull the "well since its his meta to do scummy things, if he does htem and you lynch him for its a policy lynch" I WILL RAAAWWWWWWWWWWWWWWGGGGGGGGHHHH

[Fate]

Jed, you are really reaching, just so you know.

First off, it's an example.
Secondly, You can't say for certain what people are going to want.

Maybe someone thinks of themselves as a high profile target, so taking things like Doctor or Cop aren't on their list because they know the role could die soon. Maybe (I'm looking at IS on this one) some one just wants to nukes another player and to hell with the other power roles. Maybe a person values a nuke's ICBM ability (or nuking ability /shrug) over other PRs.


At the end of the day, it was an example though...

Examples lead people.

WHO THE FUCK ARE YOU AND WHY ARE YOU POSTING IN THE MIDDLE OF THIS EXCHANGE?

YOU EITHER COMMENT ON IT, ELABORATE ON WHY YOU WANTED MY SPYREX READ, COMMENT ON MY SPYREX READ, GIVE ME SOME THOUGHTS ON DANA AND TOOG, OR STAY THE FUCK OUT OF IT.

BECAUSE IM NOT GONNA SHED A TEAR WHEN IS AND FRIENDS NUKE YOU.

[Jed Cooper]

Hmm, 5 years isn't enough for sensai. Sempai?

----

Anywho, lets cut to the chase because this is done now.

I'm good at this game. Not great, not hall of fame (yet) but good.

If I WAS scum this game, you know what would scare me shitless?

Not getting lynched. Psh.
Not even cross-kills.
It's the uncontrolled nukes. Note, not the 'town' nukes. Those turn into the 'getting lynched' business. What would make me nervous ALL GAME would be the fear at any point someone would go 'this is gut' and launch a nuke.

Because that can't be controlled.

So, what would I do as scum here? Just this. Control as much as possible (note: this is also part of the problem with "THE LIST" but I'll get there later).

The bureaucracy would catch bad scum or scum that make a mistake. But those ones die regardless. The 'OMG CHAOS' nukes kill the good ones.

Now, as for why you're scum and not just bullheaded town? The simple fact you just kept on keeping on when I asked the question I asked. The answer, even if you were bullheaded would be some line of "Well, #1 BUT...." not "#2 ALL THE WAY".

But, even THAT alone wouldn't do it.

This does it:

OK IF SOMEBODY IN THIS GAME DOESN'T ANSWER THIS ARGUMENT AND PUT IT DOWN, I FRANKLY GIVE UP AND GANDALF IS MY NUKE IF I GET ONE.

All that talk about VI's and the right way and 'pro-town wait for wagons' and being a martyr just jumped out as soon as it was clear no one was drinking the juice.

In fact, no single statement could illustrate how much dissonance was involved in your whole line of thought because this IS "If you dont see what I see I'm nuking regardless".

Dana may get to see D2. Because come defcon 3 this is done.

Based on the reality which is now present with those in question declaring themselves, I have to agree with the analysis that nukes will be flying but I never bought the idea that it was impossible until now.

I can't help the fact that the town doesn't want to pursue the best course of action even though they should; I can only accept that they won't. Just because you "knew it all along" because its your world view doesn't lessen the value of the best course.

The scum want your worldview to prevail, why do you think its so popular? Its because you have full scum support buddy. So don't give yourself too much credit.

[Toogeloo]

Hay, Fate... I'm just calling it as I see it. If anything, you reacted poorly to my comment, since I was asking you if you felt your activity could be seen as scummy, but I suppose that would be pretty scummy of me to point out, right? I never implicated you as scum, though you certainly took offense. If you want to get all ragey on me, you should know better than anyone you won't tilt me.

So let me ask, why do you want to know my stance on dana's alignment when you seem to already have me figured out?

[Jed Cooper]

Additionally I'll say it very clearly:

Dana & Jed if you ARE town you'll go ahead and not waste your picks on anything but silos.

Because, you're dead. It is just waiting for it to happen.

AND GOOD TO SEE MY FELLOW BLOOD SQUADRON ALPHA OUT AND ABOUT.

(And I still have a case I'm GOING to do on toog when I have my comptuerdeathboxes 2000 because it requires some effort)

LOL. Pick silos.

[Fate]

Your stance is pretty clearly: Neutral right dere Im not taking a stance.

But what leads to you this? What is your THOUGHT PROCESS on reading dana's posts so far, my points against him, that LEADS you to this read?

You DO know how to play as town right?

Oh and now you never implicated me, you just said "you COULD be scum Fate, and if I WERE to make a case on you it would be you pushing dana as a PL, just throwing it out there." This is just more fence sitting, not taking any stance that would be able to be read for motivation/validity.

And yeah, your first sentence is just there to piss me off I get it. You're deliberately posting what I said not to post.

And guess what?

Rude abrasive Baku? Asshole Baku? That's the Baku I shot N2 as a gut scum read WAAAAAAAAAAY BACKKKKKKKkkk in the good old days. And you flipped scum.

[Toogeloo]

Youre fucking quote snipping.

And, yes... of course I was, because I addressed the only difference outside of those quotes in the same post.

[Jed Cooper]

I'll give you a hint Fate...

I have about 14 Neutral reads in this game right now, 2 reads I think are scum, and 3 reads I think are town. Anyone want to one up me and say that they have more reads than that?

Not me. But I would lean overall with Fate based on your manipulation of choice lists. I have no meta to go on though so that's all I got. Your refusal to admit the potential impact of your list is also troubling.

[Toogeloo]

Your stance is pretty clearly: Neutral right dere Im not taking a stance.

But what leads to you this? What is your THOUGHT PROCESS on reading dana's posts so far, my points against him, that LEADS you to this read?

You DO know how to play as town right?

Oh and now you never implicated me, you just said "you COULD be scum Fate, and if I WERE to make a case on you it would be you pushing dana as a PL, just throwing it out there." This is just more fence sitting, not taking any stance that would be able to be read for motivation/validity.

And yeah, your first sentence is just there to piss me off I get it. You're deliberately posting what I said not to post.

And guess what?

Rude abrasive Baku? Asshole Baku? That's the Baku I shot N2 as a gut scum read WAAAAAAAAAAY BACKKKKKKKkkk in the good old days. And you flipped scum.

It's DEFCON 4... I got nothing but interaction reads atm. The only "buddying" that's happened is those who feel we should commune on our Nuke use, and those who want to be rebels.

Why do you want dana so bad? Why not Percy who's made just as many posts, one of which is an EASY way to look pro-town, and the other which was just as useless as dana? Why not Katsuki, who seems to jump in from time to time with fluff? What read do you have on bobsnox, or bunnylover? I can't even think of a post they had. Go ahead... tell me right now, what alignment is Baby Spice?


It's ok to be scared that you don't have any control in DEFCON 5 and 4 Fate. When the meat and potatoes portion of the game gets going, you can rage all you want, but that's where the votes start coming out. That's where we see true conviction. That's when neutral reads start to waiver in other directions.


If you think I am Fence Sitting, it is because I am biding my time, reading things, and setting myself up for when the true hunt begins. You... you are just antsy and cant keep it in your pants.

[Toogeloo]

I'll give you a hint Fate...

I have about 14 Neutral reads in this game right now, 2 reads I think are scum, and 3 reads I think are town. Anyone want to one up me and say that they have more reads than that?

Not me. But I would lean overall with Fate based on your manipulation of choice lists. I have no meta to go on though so that's all I got. Your refusal to admit the potential impact of your list is also troubling.

Yes, thank you for that contribution Jed. We all know that you don't like my example list even though you apparently had no problem (other than disagreeance that he didn't put more on the list... oh hey, he had 6 too) with Percy's list that you even quoted.

[Jed Cooper]

I'll let him respond to that when he gets back in two days 9.9 But that's quite the dodge. You are really minimizing the impact of his post and your own but for different reasons.

But I would like to discuss Percy's post. You say it was an easy way to appear town. Do you have meta on Percy scum?

[Toogeloo]

I'll let him respond to that when he gets back in two days 9.9 But that's quite the dodge. You are really minimizing the impact of his post and your own but for different reasons.

But I would like to discuss Percy's post. You say it was an easy way to appear town. Do you have meta on Percy scum?

Nope... I haven't played with over half the play list. It's double edged as very few will have meta on me as well. But consider the phase of the game. Someone who played the last game comes swooping in, makes a very pro-town post about how to make role selection, handle nuke due-process, and posts a lot of pro-American imagery, and then disappears...

What's your lasting image of that player?


I said it earlier... it's fairly humorous to see people trying to hunt scum right now. It's like trying to fix a car with nothing but a monkey wrench. We don't have all the tools at our disposal.

[Katsuki]

READS AS OF PAGE16.

Town:

Fate
Katsuki
Spyrex
RC
Percy
Baby
Toog
Socio
Jack
IS

Need to die/Scum:

DANA
Chesskid
Jed

No Read:

Everyone else


So I got to page 16. Main thing I have to say is that the public declaration of a nuke is more than enough in terms of keeping a player accountable. If say, A nukes someone who town disagrees upon, and refuses to recall nuke with VI-stubborness, then A is in need of a nice nuking himself.
In essence, town gets to vote in a sense upon a nuking AFTER the nuke is launched, not before. As baby spice said, there is 3 days to recall the nuke. Pressure and subsequent discussion of a nuke is pro-town.

As for toog vs spyspy, I think what is at hand is a clash in playstyles. RC put it pretty well, in that you should pick what you are comfortable with. I see toog's argument in terms of preventing scum from taking roles like sub though.

There was something else I wanted to ask, but it has slipped my mind for the meantime.
_________________

My house is right now leaking, and apparently has gone undetected for quite a long period of time. As such, I will be busy dealing with this for the next unknown while. I will try and finish catching up tomorrow if I have time.


P-EDIT: HOLY SHIT 25 P-EDIT POSTS?!?!

[Katsuki]

Oh, and I still want to nuke you panda.

^.~

[Jed Cooper]

Well its the content of the post that would iinvolve a sacrifice for scum, so I would lean more towards town than scum.

But come to think of it, the imagery bit was way over the top. I didn't even notice it becausse I just scrolled. That combined with the fact that he just VLA'ed almost the entire DEFCON 4 along with the imperfect list does lessen the town strength of the post.

So ya, I guess you've succeeded in lessening my town view of him.

[Toogeloo]

Oh, and I still want to nuke you panda.

^.~

/huggles

[Jed Cooper]

Main thing I have to say is that the public declaration of a nuke is more than enough in terms of keeping a player accountable. If say, A nukes someone who town disagrees upon, and refuses to recall nuke with VI-stubborness, then A is in need of a nice nuking himself.
In essence, town gets to vote in a sense upon a nuking AFTER the nuke is launched, not before. As baby spice said, there is 3 days to recall the nuke. Pressure and subsequent discussion of a nuke is pro-town.

This is ok for theory on paper but the reality will be much different with multiple nukes. The argument is so popular because the scum want it too. But no matter me saying anything because its going to happen anyway.

As for toog vs spyspy, I think what is at hand is a clash in playstyles. RC put it pretty well, in that you should pick what you are comfortable with. I see toog's argument in terms of preventing scum from taking roles like sub though.

Link please because I don't have him doing that at all -- in fact I don't even have him mentioning the sub and in all his lists it never appears.