Open 227 - Friends and Enemies

[Lowell]

Wow. Completely forgot this game existed. Apologies. Said the guy who lurks anyway.

I will very seriously catch up, propose bold strategies, and get yelled at.

For whoever asked about other players, I'm still working on it.

You'll notice a pattern here.

Quick runthrough:

...

Some things, not all-inclusive:

...

Very few of the "points" in the runthrough actually contain meaningful content. His pbp is equally devoid. He just calls players scum or town with a tiny pointless, thoughtless explanation.

After this he just steps in occasionally (occasionally) to parrot or make pointless points that contribute nothing to anything. Plus lots of prod avoidance.

This is disappointingly weak.

[Sanxion]

Yes, but not completely invalid Lowell.

My biggest problem with determining scum between the people most likely to flip scum is that there are many similarities of "he seems more anti town than really scummy."

Ythan has posted a few helpful one liners.I think Octopus has contributed, but someone (I forget) criticized him for lacking original posts and was always prompted by Chaud's questions. In fact, Chaud might have been the one who criticized him in talking to me. (Am I remembering that correctly, Chau?) Lowell's scumminess, outlined by Ythan, is true. Certainly, the points are valid, but not too much exactly says that Lowell is scum in this game, but rather, Lowell looks scummy in all games. Ythan seems to believe that this makes him a good target for lynch since Lowell would lose the game for town if he gets to lylo. I absolutely agree this is a problem, but I am not entirely sure lynching someone for an anti town argument is best.

So, what's the point of giving my thoughts in a weird scattershot format? I think everyone should do this. Among those you find scummy, explain why you think they are scummy/antitown(possibly scummy?)/neutral/town. From there, we'll be able to argue over who is most likely to be scum from a narrow pool that includes those that everyone (even those who are most suspect) thinks are scum.

At this moment, I think Lowell is most likely to be scum with Octopus beating out Ythan for third. I actually think Zero is more likely to be scum than Ythan, but that is gut and has not basis in reality beyond Zero's general lack of presence and then sudden appearance. I don't like it...

Scum list:
Lowell
Octopus? (I dunno if Lowell is scum if Octopus is a likely partner. )
Ythan (If Lowell is scum, then Ythan is a hardcore busser... If scum and Lowell is not, I could see chances that he is scum with Octopus)
Zero (Most likely to be scum with any of the above since he doesn't have strong connections with/against anyone.)

I do not think that everyone not in the above are town, by the way. Just neutral or significantly less scummy.

[Sanxion]

Wow. Completely forgot this game existed. Apologies. Said the guy who lurks anyway.

I will very seriously catch up, propose bold strategies, and get yelled at.

For whoever asked about other players, I'm still working on it.

You'll notice a pattern here.

Quick runthrough:

...

Some things, not all-inclusive:

...

Very few of the "points" in the runthrough actually contain meaningful content. His pbp is equally devoid. He just calls players scum or town with a tiny pointless, thoughtless explanation.

After this he just steps in occasionally (occasionally) to parrot or make pointless points that contribute nothing to anything. Plus lots of prod avoidance.

This is disappointingly weak.

Ebwop:
Missed this. Could you explain why? You're defense is lackluster on a good day, with the right light, and no wind.

[chauchaudotcom]

CSL is proof that the distinction between anti-town and scummy is not as easy to distinguish as people are making it. The problem being that when people label someone anti-town they have a tendency to regard all or most of their actions as merely anti-town rather then scummy (CSL's flip has made me realize this).

Lowell is anti-town normally, yes. But his active lurking and inconsistent play goes beyond anti-town. It's scummy. So anti-town coupled with his scummy actions = scum.

Ythan (If Lowell is scum, then Ythan is a hardcore busser... If scum and Lowell is not, I could see chances that he is scum with Octopus)

Extreme bussing at this stage isn't uncommon. I wouldn't rule Ythan out if Lowell flips scum.

[AKnottedRope]

I still think that there is a more compelling case on Oct than there is on Lowell, especially given Oct's earlier play this day.

[Octupis]

I still think that there is a more compelling case on Oct than there is on Lowell, especially given Oct's earlier play this day.

What do you mean? As far as I can tell, today I have shown your case on me to be complete rubbish and have been asking questions of you and Lowell, but no to real avail because I'm being ignored or being patronized with weak answers. By the way, if this isn't deflecting attention off of Lowell and onto me, then I don't know what is. Why is that? Also, why have you not contributed as much in the last two pages (when Lowell came relatively close to being lynched)?

I've been decorating/exhausted over the last few days, however I will post in the morning with my thoughts on the game.

[Ythan]

Ythan, do you think that anti-town equals scummy?

Assuming that anti-town means actions that are bad for town (typically good for scum) and scummy means actions that scum are likely to do; not the same exactly but most cases that fall into one probably fall into the other. It might be that any anti-town action, as one that benefits scum, is scummy, but not vice versa. I'm not great with sets though.

This is disappointingly weak.

Without any reasoning why and with a healthy dose of hypocrisy I don't give a shit. Lul.

[AKnottedRope]

What do you mean? As far as I can tell, today I have shown your case on me to be complete rubbish and have been asking questions of you and Lowell, but no to real avail because I'm being ignored or being patronized with weak answers.

Neither of these points are true as they apply to me.

By the way, if this isn't deflecting attention off of Lowell and onto me, then I don't know what is. Why is that?

Because I think you have a better chance of being scum than Lowell does. I never really understood the Lowell case, but that could just be me.

Also, why have you not contributed as much in the last two pages (when Lowell came relatively close to being lynched)?

I've been posting just as much as normal, I think.

[AKnottedRope]

Also, why have you not contributed as much in the last two pages (when Lowell came relatively close to being lynched)?

I've also been at band camp these past few days, so that's limiting my access to the nights.

[Sanxion]

I had a vague feeling of Octopus not being scum, but I think a mislynch won't kill us.

Vote: Lowell

We can afford this on the chance we miss, but I believe this is L-1. Lowell, time for a claim. (No one hammer until then, thanks.)

[TheButtonmen]

The Best Thing Since Sliced Vote Count:

ZeroFang:
AKnottedRope:
Sanxion:
chauchaudotcom:
Lowell (4): ZeroFang, Ythan, chauchaudotcom, Sanxion
Ythan:
Miyu:
Octupis (2): Lowell, AKnottedRope

With 8 Alive it's 5 to lynch.

[Octupis]

Okay, here goes...

In post 511, AKR considers the fact that Zero noticed a flaw in his case on me, means that we are a scum team, and that Ythan is now town. The interesting part of this, is that Zero didn't defend me because the accusation upon me in the first place was rubbish. Had Zero defended me against a valid accusation, I would understand your suspicions of myself and Zero being a scum team. He just pointed out a flaw in your case against me, he didn't defend me, just like I wasn't defending CSL when I asked Sanxion why he only found CSL scummy for an offence that was being committed by various other players. Overall I think AKR's play today has been very suspect, first he claims to have found the scum team as me and Ythan, then it was me and Zero, but when mention of me and Lowell arises, he hardly says anything for two pages. You seem to me to be desperate for a lynch, whoever it is, you don't have any faith in your convictions (probably because you cases are fairly weak), and you are opportunistic, apart from when it comes to Lowell. Plus, the connections between yourself and Lowell are building up.

Secondly, I am incredibly suspicious of Lowell. As chau has pointed out, this post is very damning indeed (because today, Lowell is voting for me instead of chau). Besides from that, the fact that Lowell refuses to answer questions, and when he does acknowledge them, he repeats the same redundant rubbish, trying to frame me. This post is also incredibly suspect, because he states that AKR and CSL are town. Lastly, the vote count:

The Best Thing Since Sliced Vote Count:

Octupis (2): Lowell, AKnottedRope

With 8 Alive it's 5 to lynch.

Lowell and AKR are voting for the same person (admittedly it is me), but this behaviour makes me seriously consider these two as scum. I'll look back and see if there are any connections between these two, and CSL (aside from the one I pointed out). Meanwhile, I think it is best is Lowell claims.

By the way, if this isn't deflecting attention off of Lowell and onto me, then I don't know what is. Why is that?

Because I think you have a better chance of being scum than Lowell does. I never really understood the Lowell case, but that could just be me.

What a coincidence.

[Lowell]

I've still yet to see the case on me.

[Miyu]

There have been points made against you Lowell. Is there a reason you seem to be expecting it to be presented all nice and pretty for you?

[Lowell]

A lot of it seems to be based on me voting, then not voting, chau. I don't know what to do with that. I voted him, then I voted someone else the next day. Basically a bad idea has gotten a lot of momentum because everyone wants to parrot an initial (weak) case because I come off as an easier target than the megaposters. People need to stop playing like lowell.

[chauchaudotcom]

I wish I could vote twice.

[Sanxion]

A lot of it seems to be based on me voting, then not voting, chau. I don't know what to do with that. I voted him, then I voted someone else the next day. Basically a bad idea has gotten a lot of momentum because everyone wants to parrot an initial (weak) case because I come off as an easier target than the megaposters. People need to stop playing like lowell.

Okay, then explain why you no longer see validity in your case on Chaud despite the fact that, from everyone else's perspective you're action is irrational because we are completely void of a thought process.

So, could you please explain?

[Ythan]

My money is on Lowell isn't going to acknowledge that he's about to be hammered unless every player spoonfeeds it to him five times.

[AKnottedRope]

In post 511, AKR considers the fact that Zero noticed a flaw in his case on me, means that we are a scum team, and that Ythan is now town.

You and zero as a team is a possibility I'm considering. Ythan is also not, by any means, town. He's my number two pick for scum at the moment.

Overall I think AKR's play today has been very suspect, first he claims to have found the scum team as me and Ythan, then it was me and Zero, but when mention of me and Lowell arises, he hardly says anything for two pages.

Because I'm not getting a scum read from him, just anti-town. This differs from you, ythan, and zero as I have gotten good scum reads from the three of you.

You seem to me to be desperate for a lynch, whoever it is, you don't have any faith in your convictions (probably because you cases are fairly weak), and you are opportunistic, apart from when it comes to Lowell. Plus, the connections between yourself and Lowell are building up.

I'm not desperate for a lynch, I just want to lynch you because I think you're scum. I do have faith in my convictions because I'm still voting you and pushing for your lynch. If I were opportunistic, I would be on the lowell wagon.

Also, using connections with me and a living player proves nothing. If lowell flips scum, then sue me.

What a coincidence.

That I don't understand the case on him? Wow :eyeroll:

---

Now tomorrow I leave for away band camp, and I won't have any internet access for a week. I don't feel like me going v/la would be responsible with the level of activity this game is experiencing, so I must

ask the mod to replace me

. After I get back, I'll offer to replace back in this slot if the player replacing me requests it. I thought this game would be long over by now, I apologize.

[AKnottedRope]

I've still yet to see the case on me.

Ythan posted it a few posts ago. The least you could do is look.

[Octupis]

You and zero as a team is a possibility I'm considering. Ythan is also not, by any means, town. He's my number two pick for scum at the moment.

At the beginning of the day, you were so adamant that it was me and Ythan. Now you're considering me and Zero, but Ythan is scummy too. I would maintain my accusation of opportunism and desperateness in regards to a lynch because you were so sure at the beginning of the day, and now you're changing your mind.

Because I'm not getting a scum read from him, just anti-town. This differs from you, ythan, and zero as I have gotten good scum reads from the three of you.

Fine, I don't see how you haven't noticed Lowell as being scummy, but never mind.

I'm not desperate for a lynch, I just want to lynch you because I think you're scum. I do have faith in my convictions because I'm still voting you and pushing for your lynch. If I were opportunistic, I would be on the lowell wagon.

Also, using connections with me and a living player proves nothing. If lowell flips scum, then sue me.

I meant opportunistic in the sense of you first being so adamant of myself and Ythan being scum, and then you jump to myself and Zero. You may have faith in your convictions when it comes to me, but you can't seem to make up your mind about who else is in the scum team with me.

What a coincidence.

That I don't understand the case on him? Wow :eyeroll:

It is obvious though, and you are the only one who doesn't see it. I don't think that is a coincidence, especially when you consider the links that I have presented that would imply you and Lowell being scum.

---

Lowell, you're at L-1, if you are not going to claim, I am willing to hammer, so I suggest you claim.

[Lowell]

Well done, geniuses.

I am the last

mason

. I tried to breadcrumb this a little and thought I might die last night for it, but whatever. We're doomed.

[Octupis]

Well done, geniuses.

I am the last

mason

. I tried to breadcrumb this a little and thought I might die last night for it, but whatever. We're doomed.

I'm not buying it; for the entire game you've defended AKR and CSL, while attacking Xite. You have also not softclaimed at all, I just had a look back at your posts and I couldn't find a single shred of a soft claim, at one point you even stated that you hadn't softclaimed and that if you were going to, that we'd know it. Today, after saying that you would vote chau if CSL flipped scum, you jump on my bandwagon instead, why?; because AKR made a case on me (which was complete rubbish). You haven't hardly contributed anything of substance, you fail to answer questions, you make outlandish claims, often without reasoning to back up a case, and your play has been completely anti town for the entire game.

Vote Lowell

If you flip mason then I will gladly be lynched tomorrow, but I am sure you are scum, and AKR is your partner. The evidence is building up now. I suspect this hammer will incriminate me, and that I will be the prinicple lynch candidate for tomorrow, but whatever. I'll defend myself then (if I survive that is).

[Sanxion]

Octopus, I hope you're right. I doubt he's a mason, but I wouldn't have hammered without more people weighing in...

[chauchaudotcom]

Lowell is scum. I approve.