Newbie 1081: Showdown in Newbtown (Game Over, Mafia win)

[Seeker99]

Hurr durr forgot to unvote first (That is how you do it, right?)
Also what does L-1 ect. mean?

And UNVOTE: H3llo
VOTE: shotty

[Workdawg]

L-1 means "Lynch - 1" which means he only needs one more vote to get lynched...

He's now officially there if he wasn't before...

[thunderwielder]

Hurr durr forgot to unvote first (That is how you do it, right?)
Also what does L-1 ect. mean?

And UNVOTE: H3llo
VOTE: shotty

Now this is tricky... and maybe a little suspicious.
It makes me wonder if Seeker was trying to quicklynch to put us in a LyLo situation. I'll have to read through the Al slot again, but right now I'm still maintaining that he's probably town, as others have said before. But it is a little suspicious.
....
Actually, did you already vote for shotty before?
Are you trying to re-emphasize your vote...?

@Anti

can we get a vote count? Because I've lost track of things, and whether or not Chk's vote counted or not. Thanks.

And h3llo, I am rather underwhelmed by your defence.

Ability to make sound, logical argument =/= having enough patience and dedication to create solid cases.

I'm not arguing the contrary. I'm saying that you haven't done either.
And creating solid cases is kind of how this game is played...

He said he had suspicions on me (in addition to Zdenek's case). Whatever the "suspicions" were, it was never mentioned. To me it was him trying to cover up the fact that he was basically barning Zdenek, was no additional input.

Well, this is deviating from what you said before. Why didn't you just first say "he's barning Zd with no additional info"?
What you said was:

he says some player are scummy, but also town as well.

This is a very different statement. And now it seems to me you're trying to recover from what you said previously, because you didn't provide a substantial case then.

And there there's this

Number 2, why should anyone unvote a person simply because he feels sympathy? If you post a case that was strong enough that caused the suspect to actually drop out of the game, most likely the suspect is guilty. Why stop and unvote?

Which again seems really obvious. Especially after Fatso was leaving DUE TO MEDICAL REASONS. Chk had no other information other than this, felt like some of the reasoning for Fatso's leaving was on him, and unvoted him out of condolences for the real world. If he had felt a reason to revote for him afterwards, I'm sure he would have, but it seems like everything had already been resolved from their debate prior to Fatso's leaving.

Yeah, I know that already, I'm not contributing enough. If you want to vote me for that, so be it.

Well, okay, considering I don't find your defence very compelling, and this is almost another Appeal for Emotions, my vote still stands.

My lunch break is over, so I'll have to look into Shotty later.

[chkflip]

VOTE: drmyshottyizsik just in case it didn't count,

making him L-1

.

FoS

: h3llo -- obvious reason is obvious.

[Antihero]

Vote Count #21

chkflip - 1 (h3ll0)
drmyshottyizsik - 3 (Workdawg, Seeker99, chkflip)
h3ll0 - 1 (thunderwielder)
Workdawg - 1 (drmyshottyizsik)

Not Voting: Bulvious

With 7 alive, it's 4 to lynch. Deadline is May 9th.

[Bulvious]

I cannot think of a single reason he would be playing like this if he was town

Laziness.

[Bulvious]

^^^^ that isn't to say it's a good excuse, but even a towny can get lazy and decide not to be active and sort of give up the topic.

[Bulvious]

In fact, I would hardly call this quick or anything, but I'm letting you guys know now. Shotty, you have until midnight Saturday CST to make your defense, I'll be voting for you then if I still feel the same way I do now. You've been given WAY too many chances as is, but here's one more.

Maybe you're a town - if so, you're about as bad at it as Zdenek was.

[chkflip]

Bulv, who are your top two scum reads?

[thunderwielder]

Yeah, rereading through Shotty's posts, as minimal as they are, he really hasn't been doing anything. I just read through a section of one of his games where he was the mafia, and it seems like he got away with that behaviour there. He did seem to be a lot more into it, but apparently he's playing 9 games at the moment (as I read on another one of his posts somewhere), so that might account for his lack of posting.
His defences, however, seem very similar. He brought up the same quote "Mafia have to fake a train of thought" in his other game where he was Mafia. In his private communication in this game with Hoppster, who was Mafia with him, he says that he'll avoid buddying at all costs and not to jump on each other's bandwagons. This I feel applies to h3llo too, since they've been staying away from each other.
Also, in his other game, he quotes IIoA a lot, and doesn't really use it correctly in either case. I feel his only analysis has been hiding behind the term Information Instead of Analysis (that's correct right?) and has never backed up any of it when he's come under pressure.
I wasn't sure about him, because of the Zd debocle, so I too would love to wait for Saturday night. After that, if nothing productive has come, Lynch away Bulvious. Shotty/h3llo are my bet for scum team right now.

[drmyshottyizsik]

It's common sense. I've said it as town and scum. Scum have to fake a train of thought. I'm on a phone right now so I'll deffend later, but mainly I would like to say that your blatant misrep of meta is scummy.

[chkflip]

Why "lynch away Bulvious"? It seems like you've got a pretty strong meta-read on him.

If it comes down to it and shotty continues to play the way he has, do you have any intent to hammer before Saturday?

Also, to both thunder and Bulv, why Saturday?

PEDIT: SHOTTY, have you been playing from a phone this whole time? (If so, why wait until now to mention it?)
How did thunder misrep you? What he's said doesn't seem to be different from your play.

[Bulvious]

I have to work Sunday so I'd rather not post specific time constraints etc.. etc.. Just much better for me on Saturday.

Also, I'll just go through a process of elim for you guys.

Chk - Other than some lack of activity (Which we've all seen recently and no one can fault you) your play has been pretty town. The quote that stands out most to me in my mind was where you hinted at the intent behind your vote to pressure (your post after ST's defense following your case.)
Drmyshot - His play is shit, he's tunneling, the only time he's posted REAL content was when he was trying to sway me against Workdawg, otherwise it's "He's scum I'm town it's obvious guys!"
WD - Talks openly, doesn't tunnel, but hell, he could just be an excited scum and doesn't want to leave the game alone.
h3ll0 - His play is different than his last game.
Seeker - Aln sub in, continues the noob spot - I dislike that he's new but love that he's willing to ask questions and is actually learning and striving to do better unlike Alnpka.
Thunder - He's new, and he's trying really hard to find new scum, and he's breathing life into the topic that was nearing death.

Anywho, I think WD, and Chk are town.
I think Thunder is town.

Which leaves Seeker, h3ll0, and drmyshot.

Seeker is more nooby than the other three to excuse his flaws.

Drmyshot, then h3ll0, but it's flipflopping really bad, if you couldn't tell from my previous notion that Chk might be scum. Lol

[Seeker99]

@Thunderwielder

To clarify, I had thought that when Anti said that Chkflip's vote didn't count because of formatting problems, I misunderstood and thought he was talking about me because I hadn't unvoted h3llo the first time I voted for shotty.

[thunderwielder]

Why "lynch away Bulvious"? It seems like you've got a pretty strong meta-read on him.

If it comes down to it and shotty continues to play the way he has, do you have any intent to hammer before Saturday?

Also, to both thunder and Bulv, why Saturday?

I say "lynch away Bulvious" because I have finally settled on him being my second suspicion. I hadn't had time to read through his slot or look at his background before, so I couldn't say for sure. I was leaning more towards him being a Zd type of player. But now looking through his posts, and looking at a previous game, I am in agreement with the majority of you guys that he is pretty scummy. And the deadline is coming. I would like him to present an actual strong case (which hopefully is forthcoming) and I agree that Saturday is a fair deadline to do so, considering our deadline is Monday. I'd even say more Saturday afternoon, in case, by some magnificent light, he manages to type more than four sentences of yelling and obscurities, because then we'd have a chance to analyze it and respond in kind.

@Seeker - I see. Thanks for the clarification.

@ Shotty I'm not misrepresenting anything. I looked at one of your games, one of your games where you were scum, and the similarities of your arguments (or lack thereof) between that game and this game struck me, so I posted my thoughts for the town to see. Right now, I think you're flailing.

[Workdawg]

LOL

Shotty is L-1 and NOW he decides he will post a defense LATER? Come on. I have no problem with you giving him some more time, as lynching before the deadline only steals information from us... but it seems like every time he posts he looks more like scum to me.

@Thunder

I think your analysis is excellent for your first game. I wouldn't put a lot of stock in someone's meta. I think the stuff you bring up about shotty's scum meta doesn't seem THAT significant since it's fairly obvious scum tactics, but I do think it's worth mentioning anyway.

Also, I literally LOL'd at this quote:

...I'd even say more Saturday afternoon, in case, by some magnificent light, he manages to type more than four sentences of yelling and obscurities...

[drmyshottyizsik]

@ Shotty I'm not misrepresenting anything. I looked at one of your games, one of your games where you were scum, and the similarities of your arguments (or lack thereof) between that game and this game struck me, so I posted my thoughts for the town to see. Right now, I think you're flailing.

This is completely bias. If you look at my town games you will see the same things. My ideals don't change when I'm scum, my play just gets better.

[Bulvious]

Doctor, you're then admitting that you're not trying at all because you're town? Seems like sort of a crap attitude for a player to have on the forums.

In fact, I think that would sum up the vast majority of your play here. Craptacular, and your attitude craptastic.

[h3ll0]

I'm not arguing the contrary. I'm saying that you haven't done either.
And creating solid cases is kind of how this game is played...

I haven't been coming out with logical arguments? Or are you too blinded with the fact that I attacked you replacee which he couldn't/wouldn't reflute?

This is a very different statement. And now it seems to me you're trying to recover from what you said previously, because you didn't provide a substantial case then.

I had more than one reasons to vote him. First was that he was constantly fence-sitting on issues. The second was that he keeps saying that he was suspicious of me, and yet could not provide any examples of what he was suspicious about.

Which again seems really obvious. Especially after Fatso was leaving DUE TO MEDICAL REASONS. Chk had no other information other than this, felt like some of the reasoning for Fatso's leaving was on him, and unvoted him out of condolences for the real world. If he had felt a reason to revote for him afterwards, I'm sure he would have, but it seems like everything had already been resolved from their debate prior to Fatso's leaving.

To be honest, I don't buy Fatso's "Medical Reasons" as valid reasons to drop out of the game. It seems too coincidental that his "medical reasons" popped out immediately after he was subjected to a valid, albeit harsh case.

[thunderwielder]

I haven't been coming out with logical arguments? Or are you too blinded with the fact that I attacked you replacee which he couldn't/wouldn't reflute?

Nope, I'm definitely not blinded. And a gibe is not a rebuttal.
(look, h3ll0, that's how you answer a question. With a sentence. NOT with another question.)
Show me your logical arguments. Because right now I haven't seen any. QUOTE THEM for me. I think I've provided enough of your non-arguments.

I had more than one reasons to vote him. First was that he was constantly fence-sitting on issues. The second was that he keeps saying that he was suspicious of me, and yet could not provide any examples of what he was suspicious about.

Well, if you had more than one reason to vote for him, why didn't you state that when you made your case for him. Instead of saying something that wasn't actually anything.

To be honest, I don't buy Fatso's "Medical Reasons" as valid reasons to drop out of the game. It seems too coincidental that his "medical reasons" popped out immediately after he was subjected to a valid, albeit harsh case.

I don't think it was very harsh at all. I think it was a good case calling him out on things that he was doing wrong (from Chk). However, after Chk made his huge case, and Fatso kind of responded half-heartedly, and Chk responded with another big list - Bulvious pointed out that Fatso's actions were more likely newb town, and it seemed like Chk agreed with him.
If your thoughts about Fatso being scum were so strong, why didn't you follow up with them? You could still be pursuing that case. Instead you jumped on the Chk bandwagon - the guy who made a much stronger case against Fatso than you, and are now trying to get him lynched, if my memory of the last vote count serves.
Either way, if you're still feeling so strongly about Fatso and now me being a member of the Mafia, why don't you pursue it and back it up with sound, logical arguments, instead of jumping on whoever you think's going to get lynched the quickest.
Other than Shotty, who I'm pretty sure is your scum buddy. I guess we'll probably see by Saturday.

[Seeker99]

Bump for activity and a few questions:

What do IIoA and ISO stand for? I Google'd them but didn't find anything relevant.

[Bulvious]

ISO means isolation I THINK.
IIoA means Information Instead of Analysis.

[Workdawg]

+1 bulvious.

Shotty has given a description of IIoA in his case against me.
ISO, at least my interpretation of it, is to read someone's posts in isolation. At the bottom of the forums, right below the quick reply stuff, is a "display posts by user" dropdown list. You can select a user and only their posts will show up. So when I refer to "ISO 4" of someone, it's the post #4 in that selection.

[Seeker99]

Just finished ISOing everyone still living, and I kept seeing EBWOP pop up. What does it mean?

Also that Shotty has less content than I had previously believed.

[Seeker99]

Just finished ISOing everyone still living, and I kept seeing EBWODP pop up. What does it mean?

Also that Shotty has less content than I had previously believed.

Nevermind, found it.