In post 2366, the worst wrote:you drive a bug?? wow I absolutely love your car and your choice in cars is second to none please have my firstborn child
vote count
day 1, vc 9
NorwegianboyEE
(4, E-3) - lilith2013, the worst, Nepenthes, TheFourEyedDude
The day will end in (expired on 2020-09-06 18:22:00).
There was no 'nader and it just rained instead.
Not really sure what to make out of the Pilgrim wagon remaining static. It's not like both scum were going to neighbor bus d1 but town didn't bite either. It just lingered with no one pushing.
Lilith and the worst likely not teamed. Billy has increased equity with the worst though.
Most of the rest of the wagons are not centered on living players. That gives me a lot of pause. Why have the wagons been getting more cohesive the futher we have gotten from a scum lynch?
If Una is scum, I don't get his tactic today unless it's to set his partner up in lylo and/or deny associatives. His first instinct is to claim I am waiting around to hammer rather than try and sort me.
In post 5300, the worst wrote:tl;dr: like, yeah. unabombah is scum. obviously he's literally confirmed scum to me via lack of quickhammer but hopefully you can all see like a drawn-out expanded version of why i felt so comfortable lolvoting him at the start of this phase?
just like grabbing a few wild points on why his play is literal nonsense but if anyone is super bored and actually not sure who to vote i'd encourage them to have a super brief flick thru the last page (i think it gets better towards the bottom but i was actually really surprised how poor una's d1 was in hindsight).
during day one, he had like reasonably likable posts, but very little read progression on a lot of slots. his reads on consensus players did have reasons for them, but the reasons were often ill at odds with the things those players were actually doing to be townread.
during day one, and actually fairly consistently through the game, he has been suggesting that people may be scum but really struggling to actually vote them. this is indicative of a guilty conscience, and i think that particularly shines through when he talks about small PoEs with entirely-now-flipped players being scum, but still remains non-voting. this is indicated again by his inability to reflexively crossvote me going into day five.
sometime during early d3 (or like, very late d2?), he settled on a tw/iv team and has struggled & ultimately failed to reevaluate like. literally any reads at a substantial level since then. this isn't someone trying to solve the game.
his actual push on me is based on like the "3d chess super ninja ultimate laser beam eye scum god" type thing. he originally decided that i was scum because of some like, crumb that he intuited i would have seen or something? which i still don't understand? in the process he has not once stopped to consider that what he's suggesting is coming rom scum!duck is utterly inconsistent with my scum skillset, and actually consistent with the scum skillset of other players in the plist (cough @SS cough).
he has continuously suggested that i am absolutely scum, yet has failed to actually follow through on his push. he has voted me exactly once, and tried to prompt a real-time engagement. when i joined in the engagement, he failed to engage in any way that would have meaningfully sorted my alignment and instead came out with the same pattern of perpetually scumreading me without actually trying to carry on with it.
he talked around zombie apocalypse like, pretty damn consistently. he didn't really have a read on the slot. he's alleging having realised that SS got a guilty, but seemed very confused about the fact he needed to switch his vote from nepenthes to zombie on d2. in fact he actually unvoted for a chunk of d2 while the action was happening.
a lot of his more 'gritty' posting in this game has actually been about mechanics and role interactions, and not about solving the game. the way he talks about and plays his role is focused on making himself appear towny, not on attempting to solve the setup. he misses (imo) fairly obvious prompts that he should be considering what his role means in the greater setup, if he's town.
his mechanical play makes a tonne of sense coming from a scum rolestopper. trying to establish a pseudo-leashing on nepethes on day one is like. exactly literally massive ev points for a scum rolestopper.
i'm not commenting back through his play today: he is spamming night action wifom and ignoring dayplay. that isn't town who's just been vindicated that their #1 scumread all along was right. that's scum who didn't realise how hard their miselim was going to fight back.
SS' case on him contained a lot of evidence that una is a rolestopper. it contained some arguments suggseting that he's town but like, i'd argue reason#3 is just provably not valid (see: page 212) and the fourth is kinda just not really particularly helpful given he wasn't making a specific push because he was active lurking.
this one & the page beforehand. the last like ~30 posts in Una's iso responding to it are also pretty telling imi
The day will end in (expired on 2020-09-06 18:22:00).
please let me know if something is wrong with the votecount; additionally, note that in accordance with the rules, ONLY votes in vote tags are being counted.
Looking at this post, I would think that billy and Una are unaligned. It makes little to no sense to have two scum sitting together. There is an obvious error in the VC so it's theoretically possible, just unlikely.
IV is less likely to be scum from here but scum do RVS teammates.
Can someone with more experience with Titus let me know if this is the type of slip she'd make as scum? Because it looked like a townslip to me.
@Billy - It's NAI. I sub in a lot and forget what slot I am.
@The worst, I like most of it overall without having read the thread. The d2 thing is kinda meh. Same with the specific una is a rolestopper thing. If that wall is true, I don't mind voting Una.
In post 5586, Titus wrote:The worst, I like most of it overall without having read the thread. The d2 thing is kinda meh. Same with the specific una is a rolestopper thing. If that wall is true, I don't mind voting Una.
Every word of it is what I've experienced in this game.
So you'd put the team at Una/Lilith > una/tw? I think I agree Billy is really, really unlikely to be the partner atp.
In post 5580, Titus wrote:If Una is scum, I don't get his tactic today unless it's to set his partner up in lylo and/or deny associatives. His first instinct is to claim I am waiting around to hammer rather than try and sort me.
He’s saying that you’re scum. His solve has been your slot + duck for years.
Not very well atm - likely probably tomorrow or maybe Sunday? if you ctrl+f "billy" in Una's iso and read a bit I think it's somewhat illustrative. there's kind of a few awkward non interactions and then una responding to billy biting at Una for clumsy read progression on himself. It doesn't like.. feel like distancing, for the most part? there are some parts which could be distancing I guess but if they are they're just not very convincing attempts at it. I guess I haven't really dived the Billy=>Una associatives either tbh, I probably need to do a joined iso read but I guess I was hoping to procrastinate on that unless I was alive in f3
In post 2139, Billy Pilgrim wrote:Can you explain me as your top scumread particularly in light of the last post I quoted from you? Now maybe im misinterpreting that post when you agreed with S_S that you were liking me more, but between that and you seeming to understand where I was focused on people's interactions with my slot reminding you of your early townplay, im not seeing a progression from there to me as one of your top scumreads.
actually this is nowhere near as intense as I remember it being.
I wanna know how I went from town to one of your top two scumreads without anything you felt a need to comment on. Its like my posts dropped out of your focus, but then I ended up as your top scumread with nep.
It felt like you were able to make towny-looking posts, and I came to realize that no matter which of you is scum, there's probably at least one here who's capable of fooling me/us/all of us.
So those two quotes are in reference, not only to you, but towards pretty much everyone on my null->scum range who have been able to have these good moments.
In post 2096, the worst wrote:i think he's starting to think you might be town and getting anxious about a deeper wolf.
..or you could just say it simply like this.
Ok, do you have any reason to think I'm capable of being a deeper wolf?
In post 2139, Billy Pilgrim wrote:Can you explain me as your top scumread particularly in light of the last post I quoted from you? Now maybe im misinterpreting that post when you agreed with S_S that you were liking me more, but between that and you seeming to understand where I was focused on people's interactions with my slot reminding you of your early townplay, im not seeing a progression from there to me as one of your top scumreads.
I honestly need to return to this at a later time, but most of my scumlean towards you was formed over a longer period of time.
It didn't feel like you were an easy target to push per se, but there were still multiple people scumreading some of your content.
And the way you formatted your posts and (possibly) censored your words gave me a feeling that you were purposefully trying to avoid AI-statements and hard stances.
I'll honestly need to use your ISO and even return to that back-and-forth between you and S_S to give you the answer that you deserve.
But I'm just not going to find the time and energy this game day.
Sorry.
All I can say is that I'm not going to vote for you D1 - unless I find the time and energy to do that ISO-return before that.
If you feel like im the type of player that censors my posts do I also quick vote before you answered my questions? Because that doesn't come from the same playstyle like ever.
And youre using these seemingly conflicting styles as both reasons that im scum when i dont get how that makes sense. Im either cautious scum, or I just voted you because I was building to it and didn't care that I left questions out without answers. That doesn't seem like it can come from the same scum mentality.
I voted you because I really wanted confirmation from someone else that I wasn't reading more into your words than was reasonable. If your argument for me being scum now is that im deepwolfing then I dont know how to respond because I so often get scumread early based on my playstyle (that hedging and fencesitting is probably a professional hazard btw im a lawyer so im literally forced to look at things from like 8000 angles) that there's no way I would go into a scumgame thinking that im gonna survive to the end as a townread. There's no way im surviving a LYLO as scum. So if you genuinely thought I was deepwolfing then I think thats the only way you have a progression on me that makes sense. So is that what it was?
I know this is a stretch but bear with me. Saudade was posting good, like real good, and way outside their normal style. But what if they saw this Playlist and decided to actually play? And yeah, that's not a case, but i feel like Pooky had a high shade ratio in their posts and they aren't backing it up with votes. Hell he literally told someone else to case me while he wasn't voting me. That feels scummy.
Also, given that the consensus poe is pretty tight and it has me in it and I know im town, one of these consensus townreads has to be wrong and at the minute my money is on the bear.
In post 2686, UnaBombaH wrote:Wait, Billy notices this and they have a short interaction about it?
But they talk it away by walking right past the point?
Are they both just scum and Norwee slipped there??
That post came right after him doubling down on his nepenthes vote. Now I know Nepenthes uses female pronouns, so what looked like the obvious antecedent (the previous post where he doubles down on his nepenthes vote didn't have matching pronouns. Then I realized that Norweej has misgendered Nepenthes consistently though this game and based on his response to my vote and rereading those two posts, I realized that I probably made the mistake just on the basis of the pronoun.
i’m probably going to need a good and long trip to the mental hospital for rehabilitation.
Such a Freudian slip..
?? how is this is a slip am I just dumb
Well, tbf, at this point I was more or less joking.
But the way I read that post, Norweg is saying that
"he would vote Billy over himself"
-> with the tone of
"as the last option other than me"
-> Norweg thinks Billy is town.
He then says, and notice here, starts with a
BUT
"if he flips town i’m probably going to need a good and long trip to the mental hospital for rehabilitation"
.
Meaning that those two sentences are connected, and together they make no sense.
I might've let it pass, but the their mutual reaction to that mistake just seems fake to me.
To me it's obvious that Norweg is only talking about Billy in that post.
Now, I normally hate it when people jump up every time there's even a sliver of a chance someone made a "slip".
Scumslip, townslip, whatever.
But this here seems more like the kind of slip that actually happens for scum - especially if they are both scum.
Norweg is tunneling very hard on the point that "Billy is so obv.town to me", but while writing this post their actual knowledge of Billys alignment pushes through for a moment, and they write "town" instead of "scum".
Because they are both scum, but they are trying very hard to force the narrative of town!Billy.
See i understand how literally everyone else would see it that way, but this interpretation only works if we're scum together, and I'm not scum, so if hes making that comment about me its just a stone cold lie, which is why i may be more apt to believe that he was talking about Nep.
Also, I read the "but" from his post as a sort of change. So he was voting Nep, then said he would vote me over himself but that he'd be in a mental institution if "he flipped town." This reasoning doesn't make a lick of sense as to why he wouldn't vote me which is why i reacted so strongly. It does however make alot of sense if hes got nepenthes as locked scum. He'd be very hesitant to move the vote.
So I apready said im the elim today. And then everyone will see why this alleged slip doesn't work, because when I flip town, his alleged slip isn't a slip.
In post 3088, UnaBombaH wrote:I'm a rolestopper, and targeted Nep last night.
So there's that.
I have modifiers that I'm not going to out yet so that scum can't abuse it, but I've said enough for reasonable people to see where I'm coming from.
The only way Nep could've been roleblocked, is if I was roleblocked first, and then they were roleblocked separately.
So nope.
This is like really strong reasoning and literally the only way that Una could know Nep wasn't roleblocked.
Are we entitled to know the order of operations as far as resolving conflicts in roles mod? Because if so id like to kmow it. E.g. it seems hard for me to believe that roleblock would ever resolve before rolestop or else it weakens the rolestop and if that is true, then we know Nep is lying because Una can't be blocked at that point.
And if rolestop resolved before roleblock then there has to be at least 1 scum in Nep/Una. I mean its already pretty unlikely that there's 0 given that ut means either a jailkeep situation or 2 scum roleblockers.
development into the vote after he finished his catchup was good though. I agree with his read and given his back & forth with Una I feel like billy actually wanted an answer / una actually wanted to squirm out of the engagement? it's not a smoking gun but it's more clearing than una/IV associatives and I'm not really interested in considering una/lilith
I need to check if there was another post from una after 2354 before he switched his vote to Pooky I guess but I feel like this had a fairly non stilted "get annoyed, ask questions, get answer, query answer, get clairty, move on" progression which is consistent with Billy's playstyle. he's like, a fairly analytical detail oriented player without being as prolific or experienced as e.g. you. I've pocketed him by throwing down a shitty but detailed scumcase on him before. I think his town style is very fallible to the type of response Una threw back to him.
His switch to Pooky felt believable. I'll go check whether it was opportunistic or whimsical in a broader context at some point.
Una's billy/nor slip thing on D1 is pretty sketch in hindsight and I think it's kind of not a scum mindset to double down on being the day's elimination when ottomh I don't really think he was being bussed? "Let me die on my scum cross so you can see your read style is bullshit" just feels like a whack stance to take to a scum partner calling you scum with a townie who is set to be eliminated but like, I guess Billy is smart and this could be a high level manipulation. this one I feel less confident on.
He's also hook, line, sinker on the rolestopper interaction and there isn't an air of like. doubt. at all. I feel like being scum who knows Nep is either lying or there's a mod error forces a mindset where you're a lot more stilted about the situation - I can actually buy that Billy believes that Una is the good guy in this situation. It doesn't feel lazily clearing, it feels earnest
