Mini Normal 1187: Game Over

[Heliman]

That's approximately 4 minutes.

[archaebob]

@ Heliman -

Ok. I'll make you a deal. If you go back and actually quote the meta like I asked you to, I'll respond to your whole "case" tomorrow evening.

Actually, lemme sweeten the deal.

If you do that for me, depending on how things go with Pine, I

might

even get you lynched today. No promises there, but it's a distinct possibility.

[Heliman]

Hah! I'd like to see you try.

Quoted
Meta

However, my whole case isn't enough, I will not change my opinion unless you actually make your case against me too. I have a very good reason why too.

[archaebob]

@ DemonHybrid -

First of all, where did you go?

Second of all, please breadcrumb your partner's name somewhere and tell him where it is tonight. This is absolutely essential. Especially since you still look like scum to me.

[archaebob]

@ Heliman -

Thanks for the link. A couple last questions:

How many games have you played on this site? If you have a town meta, please link it.

Who do you most suspect after jil and myself?

[Heliman]

One:[url=http://mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=17245]Newbie 1094[url]

Two: Hiplop- Don't you have a thing against having town call their scumpicks?

[Heliman]

Oh damn I messed it up again, well at least you have the link.

[foilist13]

I'm very interested to see where this is going.

Secondly, @Archaebob: You have been zealous about putting pressure on every person in this game except me. I'd write it off to this not being the time of day for reaction hunting, but you even questioned the newer replacement.

What's going on man? Are you too comfortable with me already? Or are you saving up some epic case like last time?

[archaebob]

@ Heliman -

No, I don't have a thing against anyone calling their scum picks, and if it seems like I did at some point in the past, then I've obviously changed my mind since then. In any case, I do remember is disliking

town

lists, but I'm less hung up on that now, as evidenced by the one I posted myself in this game.

@ Foilist -

Why are you so concerned with my opinion of you?

[foilist13]

@Archaebob: On second thought I suppose I'm not. My line of reasoning taken to its conclusion leads me to something I'm 95% sure is not true, so I'll not continue it.

[archaebob]

@ Foilist -

Pressure questions:

What would your line of reasoning have been if you weren't 95% sure that the conclusion is false?

What is making you 95% sure of anything right now, and why do you trust

it

over your reasoning?

[archaebob]

@ Heliman -

How do you feel about foilist?

[Heliman]

Hm? It depends on what his reasoning was. I actually was going to post a question similar to yours just now but you beat me to it.

[foilist13]

Based on our history, I would suspect that you have a conviction about my alignment already. Either you're convinced by my play that I'm town, convinced by my play that I'm scum, or you're scum and you know my alignment already. However, based on your meta I am 95% sure that you are town (i.e. this line of reasoning was meant to determine if you are scum, which I am 95% sure is not true). I trust this read significantly more than I am bothered by you not questioning me. This line may lead to discovering what your actual convictions around my alignment are, but I imagine I'll find out anyway.

The reason I wanted to stop was 1) it was pointless, and 2) I'll find out what your opinion of me is anyway.

[Heliman]

What about his meta makes him look town? How does his play now contrast with his scum play?

[archaebob]

@ heliman -

No I mean in general. What do you think of him?

@ foilist -

Good save.

Either you're convinced by my play that I'm town, convinced by my play that I'm scum, or you're scum and you know my alignment already.

You know I'm not scum. You also know that whatever I think of you, I'm probably not wrong.

Which brings me back to my original question. Why are you so concerned with my opinion?

Knowing that I'm town, and that I have at least an 85% shot at correctly guessing your alignment from your first five posts, why on earth would you be worried about my opinion of you simply because I haven't taken steps to make it clear yet?

[foilist13]

My concern does not extend past curiosity. We both know what happens when we're on opposite sides and what happens when we're on the same side. Neither of those things have yet materialized, so I can't be sure which way you're leaning. Yes, you're probably right, but you might not be. If you ask me further why I'm so curious I won't have an answer for you. This is it.

@Heliman: When archaebob is town this is what he sounds like. When he is scum he sounds slightly different. He is slightly more cautious. The need to fabricate his play visibly alters his playing style. The most significant difference is the need not to get lynched. If he is a vanilla townie he won't be remotely concerned with his own safety so long as he can convince the town of who the scum are. When he is scum or a powerrole, he recognized the need to preserve himself and his play becomes different.

It is difficult to explain beyond that without going in depth and quoting past games which I'm not going to do since it isn't my job to defend other townies.

[ace5993]

Bob's now randomly flailing around because he's cocky as hell and is mad his DH case is almost certainly wrong. It's becoming more and more difficult to take your reads seriously because your posting style is so absurd at the moment. Calm down.

Still reading both bob and Heli as town atm.

[Heliman]

No I mean in general. What do you think of him?

He hasn't been around enough for any strong reads. Aside from his post about him mentioning that you were being surreptitious with your suspicion of me, I've noticed his arguments have been very heavily meta based. There's that, at least.

[archaebob]

@ ace -

I'm not mad about DH at all, I'm just not persuaded that mason fake claims never happen. Especially with a site wide meta that seems to pretty much assume that a claimed mason D1 is confirmed. I do see the disadvantages of the claim to scum, but it seems to me that those disadvantages mostly kick in after they are forced to hard claim one of their scum partners.

But meh, I don't really care that much as long as we do that safety measure you talked about earlier.

Now but wait a second mister. What have I done that is "absurd"? That was a

mean

thing to say. Why are you being

mean

?

Honestly, I'm just waiting for Pine to post, and in the meantime I'm dicking around with whoever happens to be here. It hasn't been a waste of time though, and I have no clue what you mean by "flailing." Also, I understand that I might sound a little "cocky" at times, but I think that if you pay close attention to context you'll realize that that isn't really true either. Heliman is just scum, and he doesn't realize that he's going to die because

you

don't realize it, and that's giving him confidence.

But on a separate note, what do you think of foilist?

@ foilist13 -

When we're both town I don't typically have a lot of questions for you. I'm not sure how this has been all that different from say, Newbie 968. Forgive me, but I'm having a hard time seeing that post coming from town right now.

[ace5993]

You know I'm not scum. You also know that whatever I think of you, I'm probably not wrong.

Knowing that I'm town, and that I have at least an 85% shot at correctly guessing your alignment from your first five posts, why on earth would you be worried about my opinion of you simply because I haven't taken steps to make it clear yet?

It's just wholly unnecessary statements like this that really grate my nerves, there's no reason to say stuff like this unless you're trying to intimidate foilist somehow, which in turn makes me believe that you don't actually have any sort of clear read on him at all. I could keep going with this but it's mainly playstyle and psychology and not too relevant at the moment so I won't

I think foilist is leaning town at the moment, and I'm a bit uncomfortable that you're asking everyone else about him while not offering an opinion on him yourself. This is why I asked you to stop, because what you're doing now is NOT productive in any way.

Basically the last page and a half or so was a catfight, I don't see any value in it.

[foilist13]

See

now

you're questioning me, but only after I had to prod you for it. In newbie 968 you asked me some questions. Here though you've pretty much ignored me.

[ace5993]

EBWOP:

@Bob - If there's some kind of history with you correctly guessing foilist in multiple games or something that I don't know about I take the cockiness part back but the comments were still somewhat unnecessary and everything else I said is still valid.

Basically I don't like how you started into this conversation just because foilist asked you why you weren't pressuring him; for the first time in the game it doesn't feel like you're scumhunting, and if your questions aren't tailored to a specific purpose as they have been in the past, it just looks like flailing to me.

P-EDIT: Foilist hit it on the head, your questions are more of an obligatory "oh yeah, here's some questions for you" rather than trying to accomplish anything.

Non-game-related: I hope you didn't take those comments as a personal attack, I was simply referring to the way your posts look to me at the moment. I don't like feeling like I've offended someone outside of gameplay, so I apologize if I have done so.

[archaebob]

@ ace -

That is precisely the history I have with foilist, and you honestly aren't in a position to judge whether my comments towards him are necessary or not. I have a very specific relationship with him as a player, and there are things being communicated in our back and forth that you aren't tuned in to. But even so, if you actually take the time to parse what I've said to him and accept it all at face value, you might, with a little meta research, be able to figure out the purpose behind a lot of what I've said to him so far. That post you quoted is

extremely

relevant, if you actually think about what it means.

Also, don't worry about offending me. The character of archaebob is a completely different entity from the person who writes these posts, and I'm not particularly sensitive to criticisms of him. And even if I was, I think I forfeit my right to complain about that kind of thing pretty soundly with some of the things

I

say to people.

@ Pine -

Alright buddy, I am very much looking forwards to your contributions today. I have a graduation ceremony tomorrow, so I'd like to get as much done in the next 12 hours as possible.

[Pine]

I overslept today. I blame jet lag and whatnot, but I've started my catch-up. First priority is remaining current in all of my game, second is a full-reread of this game. You see, I haven't actually been able to follow more than tidbits and skimming. I'll be looking at this with nearly-fresh eyes, almost like a replacement.

I'll read the first half or so, post, take a break, and then do the second half. Good? Good.