Newbie 1081: Showdown in Newbtown (Game Over, Mafia win)

[Seeker99]

Okay, my list.

Scum

There isn't really anyone blatantly scummy left alive that warrants being put on here.

Town

Thunderwielder

- I feel that he has been quite logical in his posts and arguments, and has posted frequently enough in a short amount of time with enough content to make me feel that he is Town.

Workdawg

- Being here longer, I feel that his amount of good arguements, content-filled posts, and good analysis a pro-Town.

Null

Chkflip and h3llo

- These two would normally be on my Town list, but their question dodging, low content, and somewhat illogical arguements makes me a bit suspicious, but not enough to put them in the Scum list. Barely.

[h3ll0]

Nope, I'm definitely not blinded. And a gibe is not a rebuttal.
(look, h3ll0, that's how you answer a question. With a sentence. NOT with another question.)
Show me your logical arguments. Because right now I haven't seen any. QUOTE THEM for me. I think I've provided enough of your non-arguments.

You have your posting style, I have mine. I don't see how it makes me scum in any case.

Well, if you had more than one reason to vote for him, why didn't you state that when you made your case for him. Instead of saying something that wasn't actually anything.

I did state (both) my reasons.

I don't think it was very harsh at all. I think it was a good case calling him out on things that he was doing wrong (from Chk). However, after Chk made his huge case, and Fatso kind of responded half-heartedly, and Chk responded with another big list - Bulvious pointed out that Fatso's actions were more likely newb town, and it seemed like Chk agreed with him.
If your thoughts about Fatso being scum were so strong, why didn't you follow up with them? You could still be pursuing that case. Instead you jumped on the Chk bandwagon - the guy who made a much stronger case against Fatso than you, and are now trying to get him lynched, if my memory of the last vote count serves.
Either way, if you're still feeling so strongly about Fatso and now me being a member of the Mafia, why don't you pursue it and back it up with sound, logical arguments, instead of jumping on whoever you think's going to get lynched the quickest.

I think that the pressure vote on chkflip was justified, as he did made a post that was possible scumslip. In addition, if Fatso/Kard/Thunderwielder is scum, and Chkflip creates a case on him and drops it almost immediately, it could possibly be an act of bussing/ distancing of Fatso/Kard/Thunderwielder.

Still on my re-read.

[h3ll0]

chkflip
- Leaning Scum
- Generates plenty of solid cases, and suspiciously jumps from them in last minute.

Seeker99
- Leaning Scum
- Have the tendency to go for the easier lynch (he voted me immediately, without reading, then jumped to drmyshottyizsik, no notable content.
- Replaced Alpnka who didn't do much either.

thunderwielder
- Neutral
- Played pretty pro-town so far.
- Replaced Kard/Fatso whose actions have been scummy, makes me disinclined to mark him as town.

Workdawg
- Leaning Town

[Workdawg]

chkflip - scum

Wagon hopping without any good reason. Even when he makes a case against someone he doesn't seem sure of himself. There are some things he does that seem town motivated, but the things that seem less deliberate seem contrary. What I mean by this is, he made sure to tell everyone not to vote since scum could quick lynch and win if someone does vote (a town thing), but his play over the past few weeks his wagon hopping, voting, and lack of content at critical times sways me a little bit more towards scum.

h3ll0 - slightly scum

Extremely low content lately and he does seem to be fairly uninterested in the game. I agree with thunder in that his (self proclaimed) "posting style" is a bit of a concern. He hasn't been replying well to the things brought against him and he chalked it up to "posting style." I tend to disagree that. He's essentially dodging the questions, and that doesn't sit well with me.

seeker69 - null

We've had two complete newbs in this slot, and I know that I made more than my share of mistakes in my first game. I think it's extra rough that all the experienced players are gone now too. I haven't really noticed anything clearly scummy from this slot, but there is absolutely a lack of helpful content. It's definitely worth keeping an eye on him, but right now I think there are more scummy players worth looking at.

thunder - town

He's providing lots of content and has done more scumhunting than the rest of us since he replaced in. I haven't noticed anything at all that would lead me to think he's scum.

[thunderwielder]

You have your posting style, I have mine. I don't see how it makes me scum in any case.

My posting stye is to post analysis and logic and reasoning. Your posting style is to ask rhetorical questions that make it seem like you're answering a question when you're really not.

Well, if you had more than one reason to vote for him, why didn't you state that when you made your case for him. Instead of saying something that wasn't actually anything.

I did state (both) my reasons.

WHERE?

And, no, you didn't, not when you intially made your vote. You stated reasons afterwards when I put pressure on you that were different from you original reasons.

I think that the pressure vote on chkflip was justified, as he did made a post that was possible scumslip. In addition, if Fatso/Kard/Thunderwielder is scum, and Chkflip creates a case on him and drops it almost immediately, it could possibly be an act of bussing/ distancing of Fatso/Kard/Thunderwielder.

Well, that's fair, but you're operating under the assumption that we're both Mafia. And since you don't know either of our orientations, this hardly supplies you with enough evidence to condemn either of us. This is conjecture and speculation.

h3ll0 - slightly scum

Extremely low content lately and he does seem to be fairly uninterested in the game. I agree with thunder in that his (self proclaimed) "posting style" is a bit of a concern. He hasn't been replying well to the things brought against him and he chalked it up to "posting style." I tend to disagree that. He's essentially dodging the questions, and that doesn't sit well with me.

I agree completely. He keeps on dodging the questions by posting minimal analysis, he STILL hasn't shown me the past evidence of any legitimate arguments or contributions he has made. Original contributions, I mean.

[chkflip]

VOTE: h3ll0

[Workdawg]

woah... are you trying to end the game early?

You are the one who originally pointed out that if a town player votes, it'd be very easy for the other two scum to jump on and get a mislynch to win.

That's very suspicious to me. Let's hope they aren't watching this too closely.

[thunderwielder]

Potential bussing to get himself clear for the next round...

That's my read on it.

Also, Chk, you suggested the idea of lists, and now you come out with this and no list (unless I missed it). What's going on there?

[thunderwielder]

Sorry for the double post, but @Seeker

Okay, my list.

Scum

There isn't really anyone blatantly scummy left alive that warrants being put on here.

Seeker, if you had to pick some people and give reasonings why. Obviously there are two scum left in the game. By putting no one on it, and saying later that you would put the other two on your town list is silly. We can't all be town. Again, you're not really contributing anything to the game.

[Workdawg]

The only way I can see that being a safe move at all is if he's scum, so he KNOWS the game can't end... so I guess bussing makes sense... but even then he's revealing himself.

[chkflip]

UNVOTE: h3ll0

If I'm good at anything mafia, anything at all, it's reaction fishing.

Quick hammer would require a) both scum online simultaneously, and b) my vote to be off of scum.

From this fish, we see WorkDawg (per usual) jumping RIGHT ON IT for town points, pointing out something duh-obvious. With all those obvlivious sentences... bussing never came to mind? Why not? Because he knows I'm town. He know I'm town because he's scum with h3ll0. Simple as.

[Workdawg]

This is the second time you've done something completely "untown" and both times you claim it's to "reaction fish." I didn't hate it the first time you did it, but IF you are town, you just risked losing the game to possibly get some information?

It seems to me like you're just using "reaction fishing" as a coverup for making stupid plays to me.

[thunderwielder]

So your bet for scumteam is h3ll0/Work?

AGAIN, where is your list. Everyone else has complied. There seems to be a lot of manoeuvring happening here. I don't know how much of it is town.

[thunderwielder]

Because this also goes against your previous "convenient" read of Work and I, since we were both online. And if you really thought it was the both of us, why would you risk it?

[chkflip]

Yes, you see, I'll be the first to admit it was a bit of a risk; however, it was a calculated risk I had to take. I was online at the time and could've very well unvoted before you both posted and ousted you both as scum. In this scenario, though, it's Workdawg who appears quite scummy and gives me a better feeling about you as town, thunder.

I apologize if you think my actions are heinous and, I'll offer again, I've got proof that I reaction fish quite a lot. My reads are as follows:

SCUM

h3ll0 - I've been back and forth on this thought, but h3ll0 just hasn't been having much (if any) town motivation in his posts. For the longest while I dismissed it as newb but
Workdawg - do I really need to re-state why? All my previous suspicions on top of what just went down.

TOWN

thunder - if you're scum, I tip my hat to you sir.

NULL

Seeker - you just haven't posted enough.

Like I said before, my head hasn't been in this game. Honestly, I didn't think I'd still be here, totally thought I was the better NK choice over Bulv, but that may have painted Workdawg more red than he would've liked. That and he can easily discredit me with LOLs etc.

I'll give deeper reads and cases as time allots. Finals are finally near completion. YAY!

[Workdawg]

So, because I pointed out that you made a giant mistake, I am scum? lolplz

[chkflip]

Straw manning, IIoA, and keeping up this "I need to point out the obvious every single time for town cred" meta all game are pretty scummy in my book, on top of everything else you've done this game. So, yes. lolplz

[Seeker99]

What is "straw manning"?

[chkflip]

Straw manning is grasping at the smallest facts and stretching them out in importance for your own gain. The entire second sentence is IIoA and, in his own opinion three posts above that, scum

have

to lie in:

chkflip - scum

h3ll0 - slightly scum

seeker69 - null

Which would make ending the game impossible if scum actually lies in myself, h3ll0, and possibly seeker. WD, you reacted that way because you're scum.

[thunderwielder]

I can kind of see where you're coming from Chk... And it's messing with my head because I was pretty sure that Work was town.

For now, though, can we all just start agreeing that h3ll0 is scum? I think there's enough ambiguity floating around here with everyone else, but h3ll0 seems to me to be the one we should vote for. Especially since we're in the LyLo situation. I'd rather make it one day further by picking my top choice for scum that worry about choosing the wrong person now. If h3ll0 isn't scum, that means someone has been playing really really well, and that someone would have to be Seeker, since I'm convinced Chk and Work can't both be mafia.

@Seeker

, buddy,

you need to post more

This is the third time I'm asking for your input on what's going on. You've only showed up to quote things, clarify things, and ask questions. DO SOMETHING. Thanks.

[Workdawg]

Straw manning is grasping at the smallest facts and stretching them out in importance for your own gain. The entire second sentence is IIoA and, in his own opinion three posts above that, scum

have

to lie in:

chkflip - scum

h3ll0 - slightly scum

seeker69 - null

Which would make ending the game impossible if scum actually lies in myself, h3ll0, and possibly seeker. WD, you reacted that way because you're scum.

You're right, it would be impossible for the game to end if you were scum. Unless you're scum and two newbs pile on the wagon because they don't realize what's going on for some reason or any of a number of ridiculous other scenarios.

Also, I think you are scum, yes... but so far I've been wrong twice. Until we see a flip, I will never be 100% convinced of anyone's guilt; that would be ignorant. If you are town, then you made a stupid play to try and "catch" someone. If you are scum, you knew there'd be a much less likely chance of your gambit causing the game to end; which would be much more likely if you ask me.

[Workdawg]

EBWOP: Your scum buddy could also decide to buss you after your silly gambit as well, meaning we'd only need one newb to pile on your wagon.

[thunderwielder]

Question: If I were to vote for h3l0 right now, who would agree with me?

[h3ll0]

I believe that chkflip's gambit makes him more likely to be town than scum to be honest.

And also, in all scenarios, you guys are assuming me to be scum.

@thunderwielder: You are contradicting yourself. If seeker69 is not posting enough, how is he being "playing well"? Similarly, his replacee, alpnka did little to contribute, and generally flew under the radar.

Also:
From post #286

(1)

Fence-sitting much?

This is not the first time you have done sometime like this too. If you find me distinctly scummy, why aren't you voting for me? Further more, this is also the second time

(2)

you mentioned your suspicions for me. And yet, you have not pointed them out.

[Workdawg]

@chkflip

Why did you pick h3ll0 for your vote above?