Mini 1572 - The Network [Game Over]

[snscompt1]

VOTE SAKI

I hope he flips scum. It would give me personal pleasure. So basically Saki and then Snarky if flipped scum?

[kunkstar7]

:: VoteCount 4x0 ::

Saki (3)

-

StrangerCoug, Porkens, snscompt1

Not Voting (6)

-

RedCoyote, Paschendale, Aegor, The Rufflig, Saki, Snarky

With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch.

Deadline for Day Four is in (expired on 2014-06-18 15:07:19).

[RedCoyote]

I can support a Saki lynch. I have a big enough town bloc in my eyes that Saki is not a part of.

But I'm not going to vote until I hear from everyone in the game RE: idk's flip/powers.

[Snarky]

Warning! Setup spec! It's nothing conclusive, just there for me not to forget...

There's a lot of clues out there in favor of a mafia without a kill:

-The setup is nightless
-The mafia kill would be hard to fit in the network theme
-There has been three "nights" now, and only one kill

Now, knowing there is town power roles, how many scum would it take for a game like that to be balanced? Definitely a lot. However, assuming no third party, there is at most 4 scum now, if not we would have lost the game. Thus in total 5 scum. So, 8 town, 5 scum, no mafia kill, is that balanced? I really don't feel there is a third party here.

Even with all that, there is something odd. There is three easily confirmable town, that is, sns, Porkens and RC. sns and Porkens, because they have observers, can easily claim to be masons, backed by the observers, and scum can't kill them. RC can easily claim to give power roles, backed by those who received them. Scum would not give power roles to town, thus it makes RC conftown. With that in mind, how can the game be balanced without a mafia kill?

So, either town has been extremely lucky and avoided all the kills but one, either some of the conftowns are not conftown, either there is a really fucked up mechanism that makes all of this work... Thoughts?

-------------------------------

Possible scum on idk's lynch: Aegor, Paschendale. Aegor, meh. Paschendale, yeah.

Possible scum not on idk's lynch: The Rufflig, yep. Saki, definitely. StrangerCoug, maybe.

Anyway, doesn't really matter. If there's as much scum as I think there is, the probability of hitting scum today are really high.

VOTE: Saki

Hmm... no, risky. Maybe this is Lylo...

UNVOTE:

I'm willing to vote however.

[Saki]

I'm an inventor that had stuff to give out D1.
I gave idk the Range Extender.


VOTE: StrangerCoug

I want to lynch SC, sns, and Aegor in that order.

[Saki]

I'm an inventor that had stuff to give out D1.
I gave idk the Range Extender.


VOTE: StrangerCoug

I want to lynch SC, sns, and Aegor in that order.

I don't like SC's initial vote on me, the time that the vote was cast. And to top it off, he only calls me scum when convenient.

Aegor and sns can die for that hammer.

[snscompt1]

You can suck it for keep trying to lynch a Mason.

[snscompt1]

I'm an inventor that had stuff to give out D1.
I gave idk the Range Extender.


VOTE: StrangerCoug

I want to lynch SC, sns, and Aegor in that order.

I like how you imply that you gave out multiple roles yet doesnt provide any indication on your alignement.

[Saki]

I don't give a shit.

You can lynch me the inventor all the fuck you want. When you fucking lose you'll be wondering how to tell me that I was fucking right all along.

[Saki]

I'm an inventor that had stuff to give out D1.
I gave idk the Range Extender.


VOTE: StrangerCoug

I want to lynch SC, sns, and Aegor in that order.

I like how you imply that you gave out multiple roles yet doesnt provide any indication on your alignement.

I did give out multiple roles.
And really, would I be a scum inventor only connected to three other nodes?

[Saki]

So I claim inventor and the first thing this fucker tries to do is use that claim as a basis to lynch me.

fucking lol

[Snarky]

I don't believe that claim. I don't think, if I flip, that I'm going to flip hider because RC gave me a hider role. I'm going to flip vanilla, like I was at the beginning of the game. idk flipped range extender, thus I believe he was range extender at the beginning of the game. I don't have much experience of inventors though. What do you guys think about that?

[Snarky]

Saki: What have you given to Nobody Special?

[Saki]

Saki: What have you given to Nobody Special?

Jailkeeper.

[StrangerCoug]

Warning! Setup spec! It's nothing conclusive, just there for me not to forget...

There's a lot of clues out there in favor of a mafia without a kill:

-The setup is nightless
-The mafia kill would be hard to fit in the network theme
-There has been three "nights" now, and only one kill

Now, knowing there is town power roles, how many scum would it take for a game like that to be balanced? Definitely a lot. However, assuming no third party, there is at most 4 scum now, if not we would have lost the game. Thus in total 5 scum. So, 8 town, 5 scum, no mafia kill, is that balanced? I really don't feel there is a third party here.

Even with all that, there is something odd. There is three easily confirmable town, that is, sns, Porkens and RC. sns and Porkens, because they have observers, can easily claim to be masons, backed by the observers, and scum can't kill them. RC can easily claim to give power roles, backed by those who received them. Scum would not give power roles to town, thus it makes RC conftown. With that in mind, how can the game be balanced without a mafia kill?

So, either town has been extremely lucky and avoided all the kills but one, either some of the conftowns are not conftown, either there is a really fucked up mechanism that makes all of this work... Thoughts?

There are really too many possibilities out there to get a good idea of what's going on with the kills. I do agree with you that an SK makes no sense, and I absolutely agree with you that there are at most four scum left because five is a high number of scum to be putting in a 13-player game in the first place.

I don't like SC's initial vote on me, the time that the vote was cast. And to top it off, he only calls me scum when convenient.

C'mon. Are you going to put up more of a fight than this? Nobody likes being voted, and "calling you scum when convenient" implies that I'm opportunistic, which isn't the most accurate way to describe my vote on you.

Also, if you are the inventor, then why didn't you counterclaim RedCoyote?

[Saki]

But he died before the next day so my giving him the Jailkeeper action wasn't successful.

So, I'm connected to Aegor, NS, and idk. I could give Jailkeeper and Range Extender to different targets.
I gave idk the Range Extender and NS the JK.
My thought process behind giving Nobody Special the JK instead of Aegor was because Aegor looked the least town to me during D1.
I'd rather waste the JK than give it to likely scum.

And on hindsight, I was probably right. There's probably a catch, along the lines of "oh, you're an inventor that might distribute PRs to scum."
So out of three of my targets, one is probably scum and the other two are probably town.

Two flipped town. Who's scum? Aegor.

[Saki]

C'mon. Are you going to put up more of a fight than this? Nobody likes being voted, and "calling you scum when convenient" implies that I'm opportunistic, which isn't the most accurate way to describe my vote on you.

That easily describes your behavior towards my slot over the course of this game.

Also, if you are the inventor, then why didn't you counterclaim RedCoyote?

What did he claim?
I didn't see a claim from him.

[StrangerCoug]

Also, if you are the inventor, then why didn't you counterclaim RedCoyote?

What did he claim?
I didn't see a claim from him.

It's really because Snarky outed him. He's claimed he gives out powers, and he breadcrumbed the one Snarky got.

[Saki]

What did he claim?
I didn't see a claim from him.

nvm, he claimed the exact same thing.

[Saki]

*shrug*
It all makes sense from a "Network" perspective. PRs are distributed/assigned.

I still think the entire wagon on me and idk is scumdriven.

[The Rufflig]

@Saki: Hi, again. I know sns's hammer was not optimal. However, could you explain why sns is on your suspect list, but not Porkens? They are a matched set. One of them can't be scum unless the other one is as well - well, not unless the game is bastard. I don't understand what you are thinking.

[Porkens]

I don't give a shit.

You can lynch me the inventor all the fuck you want. When you fucking lose you'll be wondering how to tell me that I was fucking right all along.

So I claim inventor and the first thing this fucker tries to do is use that claim as a basis to lynch me.

fucking lol

Lynch this.

[The Rufflig]

Give me a minute to think, Porkens.

Granted: Saki is lurking and skimming the thread.

Saki's theory that one of her connections is scum is plausible - e.g. the scum get their powers from inventors like the town does. This could imply that Aegor is scum. However, Saki is unable to prove that she is an inventor. Nor has Saki's previous posts support that she was thinking this -- no expressed suspicion of any of her connected nodes - no inclination to probe any of them.

Saki did not make any votes on day 1, 2 or 3. I'm not sure what to make of that. I don't recall ever running across such a thing before. Saki is intentionally keeping her reads to herself??? Ehhh.

Have I missed anything?

[Paschendale]

I'm inclined to believe Saki's claim. He's still wrong and we're not lynching either Mason. But I don't think Saki is lying.

I am less and less inclined to believe pretty much everything Snarky says. I don't know how he justifies his notion about flips in 636. There's literally no evidence to back that up. I don't like his "willing to vote however". I don't like to setup spec without enough evidence. The setup is what it is. Without more information, trying to outguess the setup to inform our lynches is no better than choosing at random. I don't like his "shameless wagoning", nor the completely nonsensical notion that walls are scummy. I don't really like his claim, in that he can use it to get a fake town confirmation on a buddy. He also ignores the fact that he could be killed by scum to setup a framejob on whoever he hides behind.

Snarky is a much much better lynch than Saki.

VOTE: Snarky

[Aegor]

I want a Saki or The Rufflig lynch today. Interesting posts below.

Spoiler:

I said 2 lynches and you are telling me that we only have 2 mislynches in the game? How did you get hold of this information?

Interesting question, especially since BC died. SC did respond, but obviously the response is unverifiable.

Fair enough. I like that post, actually. I like that you stood your ground. If you'd have backed off or tried to reinterpret what you said to please me, I'd still be more suspicious of you.

UNVOTE: snscompt1; VOTE: SiX

I don't like either of his posts.

Could you elaborate? Both of his posts are just fluff so far.

Possible defense?

But I liked your last post, so I remove you and cxinlee from my scumlist for now, cxinlee because of the townslip thing.

Also, he's the only one that I think could have killed beast if the beast kill was a mafia kill. Red and CX are most probably town because of the townslip thing.

Also, not a fan of the six wagon.

@six: Read the post again.

More defense of SiX?

As such, I don't agree with your townread on Charizard, nor with your scumread on CX. I reach the opposite conclusion from the same information.

Hmm...

...Actually, I like cxinlee better than RedCoyote as scum. There's nothing in his ISO that's worth saving him, while I've felt the other two reasonably townie all game.
VOTE: cxinlee

I don't get the cxinlee wagon. I'd prefer a SiX wagon over a cxinlee one.

I'd rather have Pasch.