Mini 1387: Mafia in Corteleona - Game Over

[Benmage]

@Malakitt

why are you voting me?

Because you're scum.

Except you ignore all logic put fourth that it made zero sense for me to bus my partner on D2 when neither of us was in any threat.

Keep pushing nonsensical dung. You're going to be hung anyways.

[charter]

Except you ignore all logic put forth that it made zero sense for a townie to claim guilty on someone they didn't even suspect when neither of them were in any threat.

Have I played in a game with you before? I'm fairly certain I've seen you make stuff up like this as scum. I'm going back through old games but I'm getting you and Battle Mage mixed up.

[Benmage]

Except you ignore all logic put forth that it made zero sense for a townie to claim guilty on someone they didn't even suspect when neither of them were in any threat.

Have I played in a game with you before? I'm fairly certain I've seen you make stuff up like this as scum. I'm going back through old games but I'm getting you and Battle Mage mixed up.

Go check.

I have examples of successful fakeclaims as town before. It made sense here, as it stopped me being lynched for past foolish accusations and caught scum. Should I have stoped before Leo. Obviously.

I have no such gambits as scum, because I play a riskfree flawless methodical scum game.

Town needs to spice some shit up(Could I have explained the benmagetell for why I knew LV was scum... sure but would this class of players followed suite, doubtful). Especially with the dung that was being passed as cases against me.

But I'm preaching to scum, so this is pointless.

[Demon Core]

benmage is going to shit a brick when he sees who my main is...

[Demon Core]

Raise your hand you you think buldermar is scum. Evan actually brought up this point...

He doesn't comment on Rainbow at all Day 1 as far as I can see.

Totally ignoring scumbuddies = oldest trick in the book

[charter]

Buldermar is the other scum.

[Evanjalin]

I've only skimmed the recent posts, and will read more properly later, but there are reasons why I wouldn't try to quickhammer here as scum.

Also, mala, if you could ask the question that I asked to Richard (if possible) that would be awesome.

[Demon Core]

So, mala, what's your read on all this?

[Evanjalin]

I'm leaning charter/buld now, especially with them semi-bussing each other, but stuff still doesn't really make sense, and I've kicked myself for not thinking things through properly before.

Hmm.

[Evanjalin]

Also, looking forward to finding out who you are DC.

[Malakittens]

I'll ask, Evanjalin.

Honestly, Benmage, if you are town and claimed a cop I'm not sure why you weren't roleblocked on Night 2.
It didn't occur to me until after the flip during Day 3 that you were most likely scum due to not being roleblocked on Night 2.

Unvote:

I think to this through. I'm not even sure my crazy theory is right and I want to go poke holes through it inside and out.

---

DC I have to think on your post #679.

Buld is sorta still a town read for me. I don't really see him as scum. Sometimes lack of interactions with a player doesn't necessarily make them scum.

[charter]

Benmage wasn't even suspicious of LV. You're telling me he just picks a random person, claims to have a guilty on them, if he is town? It's game over right then if he's wrong.

You guys must be drunk or something. Imagine doing that. There's not a time when you ever, as town, would even

consider

doing this. I guarantee you Benmage has never done anything like this as town. Ask him to show you an example.

[Malakittens]

As for scum motivation for refusing to claim? I don't see a town motivation for it, so I consider it anti-town. If you are town, I'd like to know why you thought refusing to claim would be a good idea.

Let me explain why you'd never see scum do it, so you can acknowledge me as town, get inline (if your town) and make this go a lot smoother.

***Why would scum, being hung up just accept their death, and not claim??

D1

... Let's say I fakeclaim cop. Two things happen. I am not lynched. Or the real cop counterclaims me, I am lynched, but now the cop is outted. Either option is A BAGILLION times better than not claiming and accepting my death (I am surprised you were unable to come to this conclusion on your own.. I suppose its a lack of experience). We don't even need to go into the town motivation (hence why I told you not to reveal that aspect) But I'm sure if you tried opening your mind a little bit, you could figure out the town motivation. Especially now that we've eliminated the scum reasoning.

Anyways, I found that interesting going through his ISO to see if Charter was right regarding Benmage not being suspicious of LV or his slot. Charter is right. Benmage didn't say a word.

---

Benmage please link me to a game where you did your fakeclaim as a VT as a gambit please.

I don't find any town motivation for you to "fake claim" cop after you said that in post #197.

What was the town motivation behind claiming it to begin with?

[charter]

Don't forget

Where do I ever tell town to fakeclaim?? Thats a terrrrrrrible idea.

Anyway, the last five pages have been the same useless blather. Time for some action.

I wouldn't accept just any fakeclaim. It has to be one on this magnitude. Not a white lie that can hurt scum. It has to result in an autoloss for town for me to believe he's ever done this as town before (it doesn't matter since I'm sure Mala is town, I'm town, so if Benmage was town scum could have hammered him days ago for the win).

[RichardGHP]

Fourth Vote Count of Day 4

• charter (1)
  : Benmage
  
• Benmage (1)
  : charter
  
• Not voting:
  Evanjalin Demon Core buldermar Malakittens

With 6 alive, it takes 4 votes to lynch and to end Day 4. Deadline for this day is in (expired on 2012-11-27 13:00:00).

[Demon Core]

just got out of a hot shower... awesome...

What's not awesome is that really, no one looks good right now.

Strikes against charter:

• All three in the LV scumslot put charter on their scumlist.
  
• Was on the Day 1 Bubwagon
  
• Attacked conviction consistantly but was willing to "compromise" on Bub (town) and Mala (probtown) wagons.

Strikes against Benmage:

• Didn't get roleblocked or killed Night 2 despite claiming cop and a guilty on scumbag previous day.
  
• Was on the Day 1 Bubwagon.
  
• redtail attacked benmage's early wagon without actually putting a vote on it.

Strikes against Evanjalin:

• Cybertronix
  
• I often find myself wanting to reach through my computer screen and shake him.

Strikes against Buldermar:

• Avoided major bandwagons. Consistantly
  
• On LV's lynchlist.

[charter]

You are basing so much on day one. There is zero info to go with and no flips. Day one reads are not always that great.

The other thing you have to ask yourself in situations such as this, is "who would I rather lose to?" I haven't played a good game, but if I was scum you could at least stomach losing to me. Benmage has played an atrocious game. I could never live it down if Benmage were to beat me.

[Benmage]

Benmage wasn't even suspicious of LV. You're telling me he just picks a random person, claims to have a guilty on them, if he is town? It's game over right then if he's wrong.

If it was game over if I was wrong...

Why didn't I fake the guilty on a townie, get the easy lynch AND win????... or if not a win plead insanity or framer or something.

Oh wait but you said game over. So I would've won faking it on a townie than....

But wait.... no... thats not true, your logic simply blows.

[Malakittens]

How are you saying there is zero information and no flips? You find scum by going back on each day after there is a flip in a previous day. Day 1 might not be great, but it will always connect to find scum.

[Benmage]

I guarantee you Benmage has never done anything like this as town. Ask him to show you an example.

I guarantee I've never done anything exactly the same in any game, because all games are different.

What a fucking loaded question.

[Benmage]

The other thing you have to ask yourself in situations such as this, is "who would I rather lose to?" I haven't played a good game, but if I was scum you could at least stomach losing to me. Benmage has played an atrocious game. I could never live it down if Benmage were to beat me.

ATE!!!

Omfg.

How has my game been atrocious? So I faked a cop... lynch a scum Cop for it. Not bad.

Atrocious.

There's zero chance of me gambitting as scum here, as there is zero reason for me to have ever done it as scum. Hence I'm town. FLAIL more.

Its charter 100%.

[Benmage]

@Malak

Vanilla town Mafia
Faked a guilty at the end of a massclaim on LMP, the mafia GF. I was the only town PR, a doc, and purposely chose to claim last. I caught LMP here, because I was buddying hard to him, and in any other circumstance with that playlist should've been NK'd.

Weather Mafia II
I was town JoAt. Faked a track guilty on scum Fate. What can I say, I can read Fate well. This was obvscumFate.

ASOIF (oobas)
Ugh this game was terrible on all accounts. Mainly because town was chasing the boogeyman cult. Anywhose, I faked a I think a cult guilty on Faraday for being recruited, because he opened one day very uncharacteristic of himself imo. I ended up rescinding my claim and confirming him noncult.

Gorrads Fav Fictional Chars
Here the game was 2 factional scum teams. I was one townfactionCop. The other faction cop had been killed. When I claimed my results, I added a guilty on Nero Cain. It was near endgame, and Nero Cain for some idiotic reason still had me as his #1/#2 scum suspect, not believing that I was the townsCop for the other faction, when we had flips of two scum teams, and one dead factional cop already.... Clearly an endgame hazard. After his hammering, during twilight I told the true result. NC was town, but I do not regret his lynching, as he was endgame detrimental. Moreover the true results, led too favorable town PoE and a town win.

Last but not least:
CEB Mafia (dramonic)
A bit of an older game. This was my first introduction to Fate and the Spam Locks Douchebags. They were spamming the thread so over the top with nothingness that half the game was incapable of playing. 30 pages of this nonsense and I had enough. So I faked I think a daycop maybe on Fate, as a guilty. It ended the useless banter, and I again rescinded this claim confirmed Fate as town, and lynched scum.

Thats the extent of my gambits. No such risky maneuvers with scum. No need to really with scum imo. My scum game is flawlessly amazing. I have zero need to pull a high risk high reward gambit as something absurd like faking a guilty on my partner on D2 whose a mafia cop with zero suspicion on his slot, and next to nothing on my slot.

Back to how I caught LV, is again back to the benmagetell, or confirmation bias. Charter is saying how did I know he was scum when I said nothing of his slot. Well I caught him with his one obvious post where he votes me, where he respins all my actions into the negative light, without entertaining a town perspective. Thats what scum must do. As scum must force mislynches. They take actions and spin them only one way. I first used this tell with much success catching Magister Ludi scum in Patricks Speed Mafia. Its a tell best used when someone is spinning information negatively against oneself. But I also caught, and dayvigged Reck in Weather Mafia II because Reck was spinning one persons statements to such absurd negativity and was refusing to acknowledge town perspectives. It is a more advanced tell to recognize, but I have had a lot of success with it. Again clearly here.

[Benmage]

What was the town motivation behind claiming it to begin with?

I didn't see any alternative way to avoid being lynched with the shit that was passing as 'cases' and scumtells here. Also I was very confident against LV flipping scum.

[Malakittens]

At the end of your post 676 you should have made a case against LV. Explained that instead of fake claiming cop, giving out two guilties and gambiting.

Also, shouldn't 697 you were confident on LV flipping scum instead of against. Don't go into detailed meaning of against because I know the different usages of the word. Just seems odd for you to use against rather than "on"

[Benmage]

At the end of your post 676 you should have made a case against LV. Explained that instead of fake claiming cop, giving out two guilties and gambiting.

Do you not mean post 676? Thats a charter post...

Anyways I shouldn't have faked it again on Leon, as that didn't have nearly as solid reasoning. I've said this. I faked on LV, again because I had a stronger read, and I saw no alternative to being lynched. The same dung, was being spun at me, and the same people we're revoting on shit.

You can argue that I could've tried and defended my "benmagetell case".... but I doubt people would've heard. Subjective here. But w/e.

Mala, why don't you see charter as scum?

Now that I've pulled up my past meta, do you still think this as a scum gambit?